OPPO 93 or 95 via 7.1 analog.
Comments
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If you were going to use the OPPO as a SACD player or for 2 channel, the dacs via the oppo or receiver would be more of an issue. Ht though it probably would make little difference unless your receiver is fairly low level. Most higher end receivers have pretty decent dacs in them these days.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
If i were you I'd definitely consider getting rid of that NAD and get a receiver with HDMI, the sound is much better.
You lost me on this one. The Oppo is doing the decoding so I don't need an AVR that also does it. Sending the audio via 7.1 analog is preferred vs sending it via HDMI by many. You have to understand the concept behind the developement of HDMI. It was sold to the consumer as a convienence of only having to use one cable for both audio & video. However the real reason was so Hollywood could add their copyright protection to the digital signal & stop the end user from being able to make copies. Audio quality doesn't even enter the discussion...they just want that protection. In fact they are trying to pass a law that all BD players in the near future will not be allowed to use 7.1 analog as the audio source for this very reason. It's getting harder & harder to find a player with the 7.1 analog right now in fact.Yes and no. Depends if the AVR DAC is better than the Oppo. However, there is no denying that using one cheapo HDMI cable is preferable to using 7 good analog cables.
Total nonsense! Where in the world did you pick up that information??????"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
pearsall001 wrote: »You lost me on this one. The Oppo is doing the decoding so I don't need an AVR that also does it. Sending the audio via 7.1 analog is preferred vs sending it via HDMI by many. You have to understand the concept behind the developement of HDMI. It was sold to the consumer as a convienence of only having to use one cable for both audio & video. However the real reason was so Hollywood could add their copyright protection to the digital signal & stop the end user from being able to make copies. Audio quality doesn't even enter the discussion...they just want that protection. In fact they are trying to pass a law that all BD players in the near future will not be allowed to use 7.1 analog as the audio source for this very reason. It's getting harder & harder to find a player with the 7.1 analog right now
In all my systems HDMI sounded much better than using analog outs. Currently using Pioneer Elite with oppo. -
Here is the thing with hdmi vs analog for movies . Due to the nature of the incoming signals the analog preamp wont allow you to do room correction so its pretty useless to use analog for movies? You need room correction and if you have it you need really good cables . Most avrs sound terrible with analog because they have a bad signal path as does alot of the analog sections of todays under 2K digital preamps
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polkfarmboy wrote: »Here is the thing with hdmi vs analog for movies . Due to the nature of the incoming signals the analog preamp wont allow you to do room correction so its pretty useless to use analog for movies? You need room correction and if you have it you need really good cables . Most avrs sound terrible with analog because they have a bad signal path as does alot of the analog sections of todays under 2K digital preamps
Yes and no, in the OPPO's case, it does have limited room correction to a degree. Not so with other cheaper BDP's. That said, the other issues are having to have all 5.1 speakers, which is not the OP's problem anyway. Yeah, there is the cost of cables and one has to weigh that against the cost of a new receiver too. Having used both analog and hdmi for movies, I find hdmi offers better dynamics. Thats just me though and your situation may vary. As far as the pre amp section goes on AVR's, that all depends on the receiver. Cheaper receivers and I tend to agree however the nicer receivers have decent pre amp sections. There's no cut and dry answer to this, one can only give it a whirl to see if it floats their boat.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I think you could get a nice anthem mrx and a decent bdp from panasonic for cheap if bdps is your focus. If your going for dvd quality then oppop and a nice top of the line avr or pre would be the solution
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Speaking of Anthem Mrx, on Chicago's craigslist someone has the MRX300 for 600 bucks, a steal if anyone is interested.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yes and no. Depends if the AVR DAC is better than the Oppo. However, there is no denying that using one cheapo HDMI cable is preferable to using 7 good analog cables.pearsall001 wrote: »Total nonsense! Where in the world did you pick up that information??????
From experience, and knowing what I am talking about. Apparently, that is a concept with which you have no experience.
I have the Oppo BD-93 and I could buy 7 good analog cables at around $500 a cable, or let the Oppo decode the Bluray into LPCM, and send it over the cheapo HDMI cable to my AVR. Let me think, which makes more sense.
I went with the HDMI so the AVR (used as a pre/pro) can turn it into analog, and spent my money on good MIT analog interconnects to the Sunfire amp. Much better than using the Oppo an an analog source for Bluray.
Of course, you can always buy cheap analog interconnect cables, and pretend you have a good sounding system. :rolleyes:
Now, when I buy the Oppo BD 95 as a source for Bluray music in my 2 channel system I will use the Oppo analog stereo out, and buy two good (MIT or Shunyata) analog ICs to connect to the pre.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Im also guessing by cheap hdmi you are referring to $150 cheap not $15.99 cheap either.Too much **** to list....
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Bluefox, if your somehow saying that you need to spend 500 clams per cable to get good sound, you may find some resistance to that statement.
Different strokes and all that, ya know ?HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Bluefox, if your somehow saying that you need to spend 500 clams per cable to get good sound, you may find some resistance to that statement.
Different strokes and all that, ya know ?
Maybe he is saying that to get cables that would rival the loss-less transmition of a digital hdmi cable you would need to spend top dollar ?
Some one should jump on that anthem as its a hell of a deal and you could make an easy $100 when your done -
Im also guessing by cheap hdmi you are referring to $150 cheap not $15.99 cheap either.
Cheap as in free. It comes with the Oppo.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Bluefox, if your somehow saying that you need to spend 500 clams per cable to get good sound, you may find some resistance to that statement.
Different strokes and all that, ya know ?
Agree 100%. Of course, you can spend more.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
From experience, and knowing what I am talking about. Apparently, that is a concept with which you have no experience.
I have the Oppo BD-93 and I could buy 7 good analog cables at around $500 a cable, or let the Oppo decode the Bluray into LPCM, and send it over the cheapo HDMI cable to my AVR. Let me think, which makes more sense.
I went with the HDMI so the AVR (used as a pre/pro) can turn it into analog, and spent my money on good MIT analog interconnects to the Sunfire amp. Much better than using the Oppo an an analog source for Bluray.
Of course, you can always buy cheap analog interconnect cables, and pretend you have a good sounding system. :rolleyes:
Now, when I buy the Oppo BD 95 as a source for Bluray music in my 2 channel system I will use the Oppo analog stereo out, and buy two good (MIT or Shunyata) analog ICs to connect to the pre.
WOW!!!! You just made my day...thanks for the laugh:exclaim:"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Ahh thats cool.
I wonder how it compares in quality along the line of other suppliers i.e. monster cable, dh labs, mit....Too much **** to list.... -
See this is what I find so baffling here at the Polk forums. A lot of people will recommend spending hundreds of dollars on snake oil--I mean cables--but then they attach them to half of an AVR being used as pre/pro! Seems like putting the cart before the horse.
BTW the Oppo has full-featured speaker management like you would find in any AVR. It is not what I would consider limited by any means. You can downmix to less than 7.1 speakers, you can set crossovers, delays, trim levels, bass management, etc. The Oppo actaully has more crossover points available than my Outlaw pre/pro, ranging from 40Hz to 250Hz.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
I chose to spend a bit on cables when I replaced my avr with a pre/pro-amplifier.
I can say when I was doing some preliminary testing with live sound jumpers (xlr) it didn't sound nearly as powerful or full in general as it does with silver sonics. To me thats the quality of the cable. I know after about 17 or 18 ft you start to experience loss but these are 2 ft/18 inches respectively.
I have found my comfort zone in 20% overall cost as cabling and will stick to it.
my.02
1CToo much **** to list.... -
I'm having a hard time with that this engineer said about using better DAC's for Blur ray movie playback over CD play back. If a DAC is better at error correction and reading the digital signal without mistake , why wouldn't that be better for any digital signal? Compared to CD , Blu ray is a master audio copy of the original master track , suppose to be the highest quality audio to date. So how and one not benefit from this really nice high quality Sabre DAC's when running analog connections?pearsall001 wrote: »I just got off the phone with OPPO cust service. I talked to Nathan & I asked him to be honest in his reply. I asked the question regarding the audio performance between the 93 & 95 models via the 7.1 analog connection for BD movie audio. I told him I wasn't interested in the 2 channel playback. As soon as I told him that, without hesitation he recommended the 93 to me. He said that the audio playback via 7.1 analog even with the Sabre DAC's in the 95 for BD movie audio would be very minimun at best & more than likely I wouldn't hear any difference. Now for 2 channel playback he said the 95 without a doubt. He said a lot of it has to do with the actual recording of the BD movies.
He said the studios are concerned about the audio quality of the BD soundtrack but since the vast majority of buyers will be using the HDMI, the recordings take a back seat as compared to making a CD. The 93 & 95 players with their respective DAC's can only playback the BD movie audio via the 7.1 analog to the standards set forth in the recording which fall short of a CD recording. In other words he said it's a whole different ballgame when it comes to the audio mastering of a CD. This is where the Sabre DAC's in the 95 will really shine because the source is recorded to a much higher standard because the playback will be via analog & not HDMI.
So it sounds like the 93 will fit the bill nicely & save me some extra $$$$ vs the 95.
Also if CD's where in mind with the Sabre's why are they on all channels? I didn't' read anything about SACD or DVD AUDIO? How about Concert Blu ray's?
I'm not knocking Oppo in any way , I have Installed these players and thought they where great well built machines for the money. I also prefer not going backwards and using analog connections between a receiver and Blu ray player. I'd sell that NAD and get a current model or something to replace it. Forget about all this Analog especially if your not going to Spin SACD. Even so HDMI can cary SACD.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I'm having a hard time with that this engineer said about using better DAC's for Blur ray movie playback over CD play back. If a DAC is better at error correction and reading the digital signal without mistake , why wouldn't that be better for any digital signal? Compared to CD , Blu ray is a master audio copy of the original master track , suppose to be the highest quality audio to date. So how and one not benefit from this really nice high quality Sabre DAC's when running analog connections?
Also if CD's where in mind with the Sabre's why are they on all channels? I didn't' read anything about SACD or DVD AUDIO? How about Concert Blu ray's?
I'm not knocking Oppo in any way , I have Installed these players and thought they where great well built machines for the money. I also prefer not going backwards and using analog connections between a receiver and Blu ray player. I'd sell that NAD and get a current model or something to replace it. Forget about all this Analog especially if your not going to Spin SACD. Even so HDMI can cary SACD.
What can I say...that's right from the horse's mouth, the manufacture. I actually did think about replacing the NAD but the more I thought about it, it just didn't make any sense. I don't need an AVR/Prepro for any HDMI connections. I run the video signal straight from the Oppo to the TV via HDMI, no need to run it thru another device then back out & into the TV. And I simply use the 7.1 analog for audio for my BD movies which delivers the same if not better audio vs HDMI. I don't have any other devices (PS3, XBox, etc., etc.) to worry about.
As an installer the HDMI makes all the sense in the world due to it's simplicity which makes your life a whole lot easier. I can understand why you wouldn't ever consider running the 7.1 analog when you have HDMI at you disposal.
I simply need another BD player for 3D content that supports 7.1 analog & the Oppo is one of the few units left that do that. And according to Oppo since I won't be using the 2 channel as a playback the 93 fits the bill nicely according to them.
A new AVR/Prepro simply for the HDMI would be a waste for my present needs."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Phil I completely agree with how your doing it and would say its a wise decision keeping the NAD in place.
RT1 -
pearsall001 wrote: »What can I say...that's right from the horse's mouth, the manufacture. I actually did think about replacing the NAD but the more I thought about it, it just didn't make any sense. I don't need an AVR/Prepro for any HDMI connections. I run the video signal straight from the Oppo to the TV via HDMI, no need to run it thru another device then back out & into the TV. And I simply use the 7.1 analog for audio for my BD movies which delivers the same if not better audio vs HDMI. I don't have any other devices (PS3, XBox, etc., etc.) to worry about.
As an installer the HDMI makes all the sense in the world due to it's simplicity which makes your life a whole lot easier. I can understand why you wouldn't ever consider running the 7.1 analog when you have HDMI at you disposal.
I simply need another BD player for 3D content that supports 7.1 analog & the Oppo is one of the few units left that do that. And according to Oppo since I won't be using the 2 channel as a playback the 93 fits the bill nicely according to them.
A new AVR/Prepro simply for the HDMI would be a waste for my present needs.
I concur wholeheartedly. The hdmi directly to the TV and sound to the pre. You really have me thinking about the 7.1 (in my case it would be5.1) via analog. This 93 is looking better and better every time I read through this thread.Too much **** to list.... -
If you are planning on analog then your not listening to your nad your basically just listening to the oppo so your right .... whats the point of buying something else because your not even going to use it. I think hdmi is the way to go for bluray and to get analog up to hdmi quality your talking a few thou. But once again you need room correction and you wont be able to use it in most cases unless your going through a digital input like coax , optical or hdmi. If your room is treated like a recording studio then you dont need room correction but for many thats impractical .
Many people have said well oppo has bass management and blah blah but room correction systems can do far more than a guy on his arm chair with a radio shack spl meter . I think you should reconsider the route your taking for HT bliss and look into whats out there from ARC and XT32 as these seem to be state of the art and make all the diff -
Last I heard ARC was a mobile audio shop out of Sacramento or something like that. Did I miss something? XT32 ...are you saying the Onkyo line?Too much **** to list....
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I really do not understand how some of this gets spewed out beyond a personal need to insist upon yelling C is for Cookie, if the NAD is not having a major impact on the signal and what the listener hears then turn it off and see what comes out of the speakers. The DAC in the OppO is more than capable as is its analog output section.
RT1 -
I also prefer not going backwards and using analog connections between a receiver and Blu ray player. I'd sell that NAD and get a current model or something to replace it. Forget about all this Analog especially if your not going to Spin SACD. Even so HDMI can cary SACD.
This is the mindset that just completely baffles me. Since when is using analog interconnects "going backwards?" If the DAC in the Oppo is better than the DAC in the AVR, it would be an absolute waste to send the signal via HDMI to the AVR instead of letting the Oppo's better DAC do the job. It's all about achieving the best sound quality. And with digital sources, no choice is more critical to the end results than that of the DAC.
What gets me is all these threads I read about questionable improvements (voodoo, if you will) but when it comes to the absolute basics, there is disagreement? Don't worry 'bout the DAC, just use HDMI regardless? Baffling.
pearsall001, you're doing it right. Carry on.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
This is the mindset that just completely baffles me. Since when is using analog interconnects "going backwards?" If the DAC in the Oppo is better than the DAC in the AVR, it would be an absolute waste to send the signal via HDMI to the AVR instead of letting the Oppo's better DAC do the job. It's all about achieving the best sound quality. And with digital sources, no choice is more critical to the end results than that of the DAC.
What gets me is all these threads I read about questionable improvements (voodoo, if you will) but when it comes to the absolute basics, there is disagreement? Don't worry 'bout the DAC, just use HDMI regardless? Baffling.
pearsall001, you're doing it right. Carry on.
DAC's in the mid to high end receivers will sound much better than the dac in the oppo. I've used different receivers and blu ray players and none of them sounded better using the Analog outs. If he buys a receiver in line with his system he'll definitely notice a difference. He should'nt knock it till he trys it. -
See this is what I find so baffling here at the Polk forums. A lot of people will recommend spending hundreds of dollars on snake oil--I mean cables--
What I find baffling is how you talk about stuff that you have never used and therefore have absolutely no knowledge of, yet continue to act like you have something worthwhile to say. Hell, you don't even own an Oppo, but talk like you've had one for years. Poser :rolleyes:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Although not quite an apple to apple comparison, this is close enough to be relevant. In the January 2012 issue of the absolute sound there is a review of the Oppo BDP-95, and on page 34 there is this quote.
“Odd though this may sound, the BDP-95 deserves – and in a sense almost demands – to be used with very high-quality cables that could potentially cost as much (or more) than the player does.”
This is just talking about the stereo output. Do the math for the 7 channel output. Although the BDP-93 is not quite as good as the 95, it still needs good analog cables to get the signal from the player to the destination. Or, you can use an HDMI with a decent AVR to provide equal or better sound, and more flexibility with other sources.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
blah blah... Poser :rolleyes:
Just the sort of thing I've come to expect here at CP. Keep up the good work.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
Although not quite an apple to apple comparison, this is close enough to be relevant. In the January 2012 issue of the absolute sound there is a review of the Oppo BDP-95, and on page 34 there is this quote.
?Odd though this may sound, the BDP-95 deserves ? and in a sense almost demands ? to be used with very high-quality cables that could potentially cost as much (or more) than the player does.?
This is just talking about the stereo output. Do the math for the 7 channel output. Although the BDP-93 is not quite as good as the 95, it still needs good analog cables to get the signal from the player to the destination. Or, you can use an HDMI with a decent AVR to provide equal or better sound, and more flexibility with other sources.
The Oppo produces sound quality so good that this particular reviewer thought it would require cables of superb quality to be worthy of carrying the excellent signal coming from the Oppo's analog outputs. That sounds like an argument for the Oppo's analog outputs. I don't see how you make the jump from this to the conclusion that using HDMI to carry the digital signal to the built-in DAC of an AVR would provide equal or better sound.
Ironic. I've been accused of being too cheap to chase after that elusive last "0.01%" of sound quality, but suddenly my method is too expensive.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII
