Jesse's right about Mortite.

nooshinjohn
nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
edited July 2011 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I have also tried the Mortite upgrade for my SDA's and though it was easy to use and such, I think I have found something far better. It is called Armacell.

The product name is Armaflex insulation tape (TAP18230). It is adheisive backed, 1/8th inch thick, pipe insulation tape that compresses completely flat when pressure is applied. It does a far better job of sealing the drivers without creating the kind of pressure that mortite can cause when trying to screw the drivers back in place.

The last time I used mortite, I stripped several holes trying to cross-tighten the screws when I put the drivers back. This method eliminated that, and took less time to install that the previous method. Not only that, but the foam material is much closer to the original design, perhaps even superior to it. It also makes removing the drivers from the cabinet easier as well.:smile:
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited February 2011
    Hmmm. May have to look into that for my Monitors. I know I have a leak in ONE!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited February 2011
    john, did you take any pics of the installation, by chance?
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    newrival wrote: »
    john, did you take any pics of the installation, by chance?

    I will get some up... I am still working on the speakers. I did this on my 1.2TL's in the past and simply forgot about it until today when I FINALLY got around to installing Larry's awesome SDA rings.:tongue:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,981
    edited February 2011
    Dude that took long enough!!! LOL!!! Now upgrade those crossovers..

    Link for that tape or what you call it. I like the mortite and everyone else should be glad I do!!! That's the reason these rings were made!! LOL!! If I still had the original gaskets I would A/B test it, but with the rings I'm not sure there would be much impact on sound.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited February 2011
    I thought I'd read that if you used Larry's rings, there was little need for sealing the drivers. Larry, could you comment on this?

    Although, I could be confused.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    The first speaker is done... The all important "press the passive" test reveals a 5+ second time for the drivers to return to their natural positions when the passive is pressed! the other speaker is only a couple seconds at best.
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Dude that took long enough!!! LOL!!! Now upgrade those crossovers..

    Link for that tape or what you call it. I like the mortite and everyone else should be glad I do!!! That's the reason these rings were made!! LOL!! If I still had the original gaskets I would A/B test it, but with the rings I'm not sure there would be much impact on sound.

    Yep Larry, I am a lazy SOB.:biggrin: The only reason I have had the time this week is that Mr. Carver and I need to have a phone meeting about my amp project before I can proceed further, so I have down time this week.


    Here is a link to the company itself...

    http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/inetarmacell.nsf/web/4062EAAF945538FEC12576D4003D1115?OpenDocument&Nav=86B3C39D48C28693802576CF0035683A

    And a link to ACE Hardware....

    http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998954551


    As for the crossover upgrades, I am waiting for the new boards to become available. I wonder sometimes if Matt Polk is amazed by the lengths we go to restore and improve these speakers. It is almost a cottage industry similar to what you would expect to see surrounding muscle cars or something.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The first speaker is done... The all important "press the passive" test reveals a 5+ second time for the drivers to return to their natural positions when the passive is pressed! the other speaker is only a couple seconds at best.
    When new, Polk's gaskets should last 5+ seconds too.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    I guess that would be the reason the left speaker is digging so deep right now.:biggrin: I used to run a sub with them from time to time, but now the left speaker hits with such authority that I would not be suprised to find it be well into the sub 20hertz range.:cool: Time to get the other one done!
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    edited February 2011
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-542

    I've used this Parts Express tape for a couple of years - I like it, but has anyone else used it and compared it to either Mortite or Armaflex?
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    As an aside... I found out my speakers were born on the 4th of July, 1991. I guess there is yet another good reason to party this year.:biggrin:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    The first speaker is done... The all important "press the passive" test reveals a 5+ second time for the drivers to return to their natural positions when the passive is pressed! the other speaker is only a couple seconds at best.

    By "natural position" do you mean the drivers float all the way back down to the same position they were in before the passive radiator was pressed?

    I ask because it takes 3 seconds for my Mortited drivers to float down to a certain position and then stop. When the passive is first pressed in, the drivers extend about 1/2" from their normal resting position, then they float down about 1/4" and stop. They do not return to their normal resting position until I release the passive radiator.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    By "natural position" do you mean the drivers float all the way back down to the same position they were in before the passive radiator was pressed?

    I ask because it takes 3 seconds for my Mortited drivers to float down to a certain position and then stop. When the passive is first pressed in, the drivers extend about 1/2" from their normal resting position, then they float down about 1/4" and stop. They do not return to their normal resting position until I release the passive radiator.

    I experience the same thing DK, except it takes about 5 seconds for my drivers to float down to that point. I just finished getting everything back together. It is nice to do an upgrade that you can hear improvement instantly. I know Larry's "Rings-of Steel" have 99% to do with it, but the Armaflex seals better due to the super soft nature of the foam.

    Thank's Larry... all in all, a day well spent! Now if I could only figure out how to incorporate a set of Sunfire ribbon tweets in place of the silk-domes:wink::wink::tongue:...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,981
    edited February 2011
    newrival wrote: »
    I thought I'd read that if you used Larry's rings, there was little need for sealing the drivers. Larry, could you comment on this?

    Although, I could be confused.

    As long as your original gaskets are in good shape you will be fine with the rings as you are able to snug the drivers down better.

    For me I had already mortited my speakers before the rings ever became a thought. so when I installed the rings I kept the mortite on.

    Not a big deal IMO as I think the rings are doing the best job coupling the drivers that the mortite or gasket is more of a way of keeping the speakers air tight then anything now..
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,981
    edited February 2011
    BTW about 3 sec for me.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited February 2011
    Awesome, thanks!
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    I experience the same thing DK, except it takes about 5 seconds for my drivers to float down to that point. I just finished getting everything back together. It is nice to do an upgrade that you can hear improvement instantly. I know Larry's "Rings-of Steel" have 99% to do with it, but the Armaflex seals better due to the super soft nature of the foam.

    Thank's Larry... all in all, a day well spent! Now if I could only figure out how to incorporate a set of Sunfire ribbon tweets in place of the silk-domes:wink::wink::tongue:...

    OK. I'll try the Armaflex. Thanks for the info.:smile:
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    OK. I'll try the Armaflex. Thanks for the info.:smile:

    Any time!:cool:

    I am going to let them settle in for a bit and recheck them in a day or two. I truly believe that Larry's rings were the biggest reason begind the improvement. That said, the Armaflex is far easier to work with and puts less back pressure on the baskets when you tighten them up.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    noshinjohn wrote: »
    Here is a link to the company itself...

    http://www.armacell.com/www/armacell/inetarmacell.nsf/web/4062EAAF945538FEC12576D4003D1115?OpenDocument&Nav=86B3C39D48C28693802576CF0035683A

    And a link to ACE Hardware....

    http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998954551

    Those interested in doing this mod will need 38 feet of tape for a pair of SDA SRS 1.2TL's. It comes in 30' rolls, so you will need two rolls.

    There is something crazy going on with the shipping charges on the Ace Hardware Outlet website. It is quoting me a shipping charge of $48.73 for two rolls. However, if I go to Amazon.com and select Ace Hardware Outlet as the vendor, the shipping charge is 4.39 for two rolls, but the price is higher ($8.99 each) than on the Ace site ($6.74 each). I'll also check to see if any of the local Ace HW stores stock it.
    DaveMuell wrote: »
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-542

    I've used this Parts Express tape for a couple of years - I like it, but has anyone else used it and compared it to either Mortite or Armaflex?

    Yes, I compared the Parts Express tape to Mortite and found the PE tape vastly inferior to the Mortite. My report is here:

    Link: Mortite Speaker Seals For SDA's

    In addition to the bad sonic effects of this tape, Face informed (post #2) that the adhesive can cause problems.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Those interested in doing this mod will need 38 feet of tape for a pair of SDA SRS 1.2TL's. It comes in 30' rolls, so you will need two rolls.

    There is something crazy going on with the shipping charges on the Ace Hardware Outlet website. It is quoting me a shipping charge of $48.73 for two rolls. However, if I go to Amazon.com and select Ace Hardware Outlet as the vendor, the shipping charge is 4.39 for two rolls, but the price is higher ($8.99 each) than on the Ace site ($6.74 each). I'll also check to see if any of the local Ace HW stores stock it.



    Yes, I compared the Parts Express tape to Mortite and found the PE tape vastly inferior to the Mortite. My report is here:

    Link: Mortite Speaker Seals For SDA's

    In addition to the bad sonic effects of this tape, Face informed (post #2) that the adhesive can cause problems.

    DK.... I cut the Armaflex to a length long enough to go all the way around the driver first, then cut it into four strips of equal length. In this way, one 30' foot roll will be more than enough to do 2 sets of 1.2TL's.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    OK. I was thinking the Armacell tape was also 1/8" wide as well as 1/8" thick, but I see it is 2" wide, in which case 1 roll is more than enough to do two sets of 1.2TL's when you cut it into narrow strips.

    How wide were the strips you cut? The stock driver and passive seals are 3/8" wide.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited February 2011
    The mortite absorbs some of the ringing of the stamped steel baskets of the drivers. If it were just a sealing issue then I would say use regular gasket tape, but there is more to it than that. If you are stripping screws you are not taking your time. Very easy. Snug them up and let them sit. Comeback later and tighten them again. You are not going to get it done in one step. Also the temperature has a big impact on how quickly the mortight compresses.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    ben62670 wrote: »
    The mortite absorbs some of the ringing of the stamped steel baskets of the drivers. If it were just a sealing issue then I would say use regular gasket tape, but there is more to it than that.

    True.

    If I didn't have steel driver/PR rings and steel tweeter brackets installed, I wouldn't even consider going back to foam gaskets. Since John has 1.2TL's with steel rings and brackets and he said he found the Armacell tape to sound better than Mortite, its worth a try.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    True.

    If I didn't have steel driver/PR rings and steel tweeter brackets installed, I wouldn't even consider going back to foam gaskets. Since John has 1.2TL's with steel rings and brackets and he said he found the Armacell tape to sound better than Mortite, its worth a try.

    I have the 2.3TL's DK, but I did use the Armaflex on the 1.2TL's I had without the rings and the results were the same as Mortite. I don't think you will hear a difference from simply swapping the Mortite for Armaflex.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2011
    Thanks for the clarification.

    The Armacell tape is already ordered so I might as well give it a try. I'm curious about how it will sound compared to Mortite.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Thank's Larry... all in all, a day well spent! Now if I could only figure out how to incorporate a set of Sunfire ribbon tweets in place of the silk-domes:wink::wink::tongue:...
    Those tweeters are junk and would never work for SDA's due to their high crossover point.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    Face wrote: »
    Those tweeters are junk and would never work for SDA's due to their high crossover point.

    Hense the:wink::wink: in my post, It was a joke.:tongue:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2011
    DaveMuell wrote: »
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-542

    I've used this Parts Express tape for a couple of years - I like it, but has anyone else used it and compared it to either Mortite or Armaflex?

    That is the same stuff I use. I tried Mortite but it was to stiff and wanted to tweak the shape of the speaker when tightening. The foam stuff is just better and closer to what Polk actually used for there speakers.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited February 2011
    Just a bit of an update... The combination of Larry's rings and the Armaflex have brought a night and day improvement in the performance of my SDA's. The imaging is so much more focused and the bass digs much deeper. The speakers are more revealing of details that you really had to listen for... almost Maggie-like.:biggrin: The improvements even revealed a driver that was on it's way out. Thank god I have a secret stash of 6510's on hand.

    On one hand, I am happy about that, but on the other, I am being drawn even deeper into the SDA rabbit hole. I guess the Maggies I wanted will have to wait.:mad::wink:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited March 2011
    Has anyone tried this yet? I am hoping to get some impressions from others.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • audiobilly
    audiobilly Posts: 351
    edited April 2011
    DK have you tried this yet?
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    OK. I'll try the Armaflex. Thanks for the info.:smile:
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