Jesse's right about Mortite.

2

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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2011
    No. I expect it will be sometime during the summer before I try this. I do have the Armacell tape.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited April 2011
    DK... what are your impressions of the material itself?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2011
    SDA-Sealants-cr-s.jpg
    Foreground: Parts Express speaker seal tape. Rear left to right: Original SDA foam seals, Mortite, Armaflex tape.

    Based on appearance and texture, I like the Armaflex much better than the Parts Express tape. The Armaflex has a soft, elastic, "squishy" texture and easily compresses to paper thinness between my thumb and forefinger. The PE tape compresses to paper thinness also, but is much stiffer and offers more resistance. I can see how the Armaflex would "flow" better into any nooks and crannies in the baffle board surface and how it would better hug any irregularities in driver rim flatness. The stock foam seals are stiffer than Armaflex, but softer than the PE tape.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • thejck
    thejck Posts: 849
    edited April 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Just a bit of an update... The combination of Larry's rings and the Armaflex have brought a night and day improvement in the performance of my SDA's. The imaging is so much more focused and the bass digs much deeper. The speakers are more revealing of details that you really had to listen for... almost Maggie-like.:biggrin: The improvements even revealed a driver that was on it's way out. Thank god I have a secret stash of 6510's on hand.

    On one hand, I am happy about that, but on the other, I am being drawn even deeper into the SDA rabbit hole. I guess the Maggies I wanted will have to wait.:mad::wink:

    What do you mean you had a driver on the way out? was it not playing anything? how can you tell?
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited April 2011
    After installing the rings and the Armaflex, I discovered that one of the drivers was making a "popping/farting" type of noise, that was not present before the mods were done. This usually indicates a voice coil is getting weak, so I replaced the driver and all is well.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • audiobilly
    audiobilly Posts: 351
    edited April 2011
    DK, did you end up ordering the Armaflex from Ace Hardware? Man that looks like a very large quantity!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2011
    audiobilly wrote: »
    DK, did you end up ordering the Armaflex from Ace Hardware?

    Yes, but not directly from Ace's website. I ordered from Ace Hardware Outlet through Amazon.com.
    audiobilly wrote: »
    Man that looks like a very large quantity!

    I have a large quantity of SDA drivers, tweeters and passive radiators.:wink:
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Just out of curiosity.... How many do you have??
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Ok, Armaflex ordered. Now to decide whether to use Mortite or Armaflex. Who would have thought we'd be talking about using window sealant vs. pipe insulation on our SDA's? I love inexpensive mods like this.

    I used to have a pair of Sennheiser 650 headphones. Head-fi'ers found a nice tweak. Replace the padding over the drivers with a cutout of black panty-hose. Sure enough... "Honey, I need a pair of your black panty hose. You won't be getting them back." Shoulda seen the look on her face.... It worked, too. The cans sounded a lot better!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited April 2011
    Armaflex is stocked at Home Despot....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity.... How many do you have??

    SRS 1.2TL's, SDA SRS's, three pairs of CRS+'s = 10 passive radiators, 24 tweeters, 44 drivers.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Nice!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited April 2011
    audiobilly wrote: »
    DK have you tried this yet?
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    No. I expect it will be sometime during the summer before I try this. I do have the Armacell tape.
    CRSEval-Setup-s.jpg

    When I get around to doing the Armaflex tape evaluation, I am going to replace the Mortite on one of my identical pairs of CRS+'s and compare it to the Mortited pair. If I hear an improvement, I'll go from there to my other SDA's. :smile:
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited April 2011
    DK it's official you have toooo many CRS+'s you need to send me a pair to lighten your burden.:rolleyes:
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • stubby
    stubby Posts: 723
    edited April 2011
    DK, looks like your 1.2s are really hugging the wall behind them. Have you experienced any depth of image changes by bringing them out from the wall? I have my SRS 2s about 7-8 inches from the rear wall and it seems to help with the depth a bit.

    On my way to HD to pick up some Armaflex tomorrow. And install Larry's rings!

    stubby
    SRS 3.1TL
    Harman Kardon Citation 5.1
    Anthem AVM2



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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,877
    edited May 2011
    Just curious if anyone had tried this yet besides me and what thoughts you guys may have about it.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2800 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson

    How many flies need to be buzzing a dead horse before you guys stop beating it?
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,687
    edited May 2011
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Just curious if anyone had tried this yet besides me and what thoughts you guys may have about it.

    I used it for the db840 mod to the 15's John. It was beyond easy to adhear and even to cut. It seems to have a pretty decent seal and the speaker still comes out relatively easy without pulling the gasket with it at all.

    I call it a WIN!
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Esreuter
    Esreuter Posts: 176
    edited May 2011
    I have a question here.

    some one earlier in this thread mentioned about the monitors series having a leak.

    now i would like to know, if the speakers are ported is there are reason to moretite or foam seal the drivers in a cabinet? what are the benefits?


    ESR
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    More to come :biggrin:
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,674
    edited May 2011
    An air tight seal isn't as important with ported speakers. Coupling the drivers to the cabinet is the name of the game.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,970
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    An air tight seal isn't as important with ported speakers.

    That is incorrect. If a vented enclosure is not sealed properly then it throws off the tuning of the port.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,674
    edited May 2011
    Please note that I said it wasn't as important, not the it wasn't important.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,970
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Please note that I said it wasn't as important, not the it wasn't important.

    Please note that I've disagreed with your assessment.

    I've built competition winning sub boxes and have a good 15 years of subwoofer enclosure construction under my belt. At dB levels of 140+, it is evident how critical enclosure sealing is.

    If the enclosure is not sealed properly, the airflow and pressure levels in the enclosure and port change. In order to maintain a certain output level at a tuned frequency for the ported enclosure, not only does port velocity matter but so does air pressure inside the enclosure. If the enclosure is leaky then it cannot build pressure. That pressure is critical to stiffening the the motor structure of the speaker. It acts like a spring board for the driver and tightens response. If the enclosure cannot provide that then the driver is not couple to the cabinet and not performing at it's peak efficiency.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just saying that my years of experience building such enclosures, vented or sealed, tells me that sealing the enclosure is absolutely critical. If not done right, it can make a great driver sound like the paper cone specials Bose uses.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,674
    edited May 2011
    Please note that you are splitting hairs.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,385
    edited May 2011
    No one on this forum is running their stuff at 140db... period...

    I will say I agree that it is important to have seals on your ported speakers... definitely need SOMETHING
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Esreuter
    Esreuter Posts: 176
    edited May 2011
    very interesting little argument started.

    i especially like the flow of the please note. lulz.

    i will have to do some more reading on the subject and hopefully find some photos for a lil bit of reference.

    i will have to apply something to my monitors because i simply have the stock seal which i broke to enter the cabinet and do the dynamat on the spokes and sonic foam on he inner wall.

    let me ask you those of you who have done this mod, with moretite, did you apply to the whole lip that has the screw holes, or was it, say, one of the small ropes torn off the moretite applied to the part where the basket turns into the ring for the spokes.

    does that make sense? i hope my descriptions of where i am talking about on the speaker basket is making a picture for you. i dont know technical names sorry.

    do you do this moretie for the mids and woofs only? anything on the tweets?

    Thank you all for your input.

    ESR
    AVR: Sony 5600ES
    Center: CS2II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Front: Monitor 70 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coils, Mundorf resistors)
    Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    Rear Surrounds: Monitor 40 II (Clarity Caps PX, Perfect Lay coil, Mundorf resistors)
    More to come :biggrin:
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,970
    edited May 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    Please note that you are splitting hairs.

    Please note that I'm not. Don't believe me, read this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Vance-Dickason/dp/1882580478/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306547433&sr=8-1

    51gRYjMUcCL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

    I await your apology. :tongue:

    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    No one on this forum is running their stuff at 140db... period...

    I will say I agree that it is important to have seals on your ported speakers... definitely need SOMETHING

    Well, I can and sometimes do. My neighbors love me.

    But, I didn't say that anyone did. I said "At dB levels of 140+, it is evident how critical enclosure sealing is." In other words, it may not be completely apparent to a listener at lower levels but at 140+ dB, you can not only hear but in some cases see what is actually happening when you do not construct your enclosure well. At 95 dB there is enough pressure in that cabinet that any leaks will be forcing a fair amount of air out. Play your speakers at a normal listening level and run a down feather or a single ply of a facial tissue along the outside seams of the seams that are unsealed. You'll be surprised at how much air is coming out. If it's coming out of that seam, it's not coming out of the port or moving the PR for that matter. That changes the port/PR response levels which changes the sound of the speaker.

    It matters. I'm not foolin'. Unlike stuff like the wire debate, there is actual science behind it, proven and repeatable.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,970
    edited May 2011
    Esreuter wrote: »
    do you do this moretie for the mids and woofs only? anything on the tweets?

    Thank you all for your input.

    ESR

    Any place where there is a seam should be sealed fully. Even if it's a flange for a speaker or terminal cup, there should be a seal. Tweeters, mids or woofers should have a sealed between the mounting surface and the back of the mounting flange.

    As far as screw holes, cover them and just push the mounting screws through the Mortite. If you stop it at the hole and start again on the other side, you are leaving a hole that the screw will not block. So either go around the screw hole or push the screw through it. You should keep a continuous line of sealant or gasket where ever you can. If you can't, overlap edges. Breaks are weak spots that can and likely will release pressure.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,650
    edited May 2011
    Jstas wrote: »
    If a vented enclosure is not sealed properly then it throws off the tuning of the port.
    Correct it can depending on severity.Some small amount of leakage is assumed but a large leak will throw off the tuning of a ported /or PR design more so than in a sealed box.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,674
    edited May 2011
    Please note that you'll be waiting......forever.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • audiobilly
    audiobilly Posts: 351
    edited May 2011
    What is audio reality? What is real maaaan,,,,,,????
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