Power Cable Question

tonyb wrote: »

Your looking at it wrong brother. They are in buisness to do what ? Sell cables, period. How many can afford 5,000 buck cables compared to 100 dollar ones ? Same reason Ford markets to the masses and BMW to the upper end. Does that mean because they both get you from point A to point B, that nothing better than Ford exists ? Why spend more on a BMW if it does the same thing as a Ford ? See, there's a host of reasons why even some professionals don't spend ubber coin on cables. Some may think the cost verse rewards thing isn't there for them, or the **** brand of cable is "good enough" for their application. Regardless of the reason, some hit a point where the money could be better spent elsewhere in the studio,stage, whatever. Just as we do in our own homes,our pockets have limits or the value to each of us is different. Doesn't mean better cables don't exist, just that for them, they hit their nirvana at a lower price point than others. Some can live their life driving a Caddy and be perfectly happy, but until you drive the Ferrari, you never know what you missed.
You also can't compare pro audio such as at a concert to in home audio. 2 different worlds with different needs, but even in pro audio, there is different levels of gear depending on how deep the bands pockets are. Like I said, if you hit your audio heaven with Mogami, cool, but bashing others because they have not, is not cool. Crank some tunes and be happy.....Collinni...out!

First of all cables are not automobiles, that analogy is just utterly stupid and a BMW is not "upper end" as we have public school teachers who make under $50,000 a year driving BMW's and highschool kids who get them as graduation presents, hell these new pickup trucks with the King Ranch addition cost up to $75k or more.

A cable that sells for more doesn't make it a higher end automobile. Now can you explain why AudioQuest sells a HDMI cable for thousands of dollars and explain what "digital" is? Digital is digital, it either is there or it's not. Can you show me where these more expensive cables are made as well? Are they made in China by workers making less than a dollar an hour or are they made in Europe or the U.S. by master craftsmen? It's not like higher end cables are Rolex and are made in Switzerland and lower end Casio is made in China. In fact all cables are pretty much like Casio.

When it comes to musicians and how deep their pockets are, well if you are signed by a major record label then the studio pretty much pays for the equipment often and they provide other perks. These are multi-billion dollar recording studios and labels like Sony, Warner, Universal etc.

Judging by the posted quotes of dv, I have to ask. Do ya'll think he realizes that he comes off as a babbling idiot?

Outfitter03 wrote: »

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

digital video the amount of arrogance that you display without having a technical background and then wanting others to convince you with data that you would not even understand amazes me. Are you in Management, maybe Dilbert's Boss?

What technical background do any of you have? Oh my! I have stated that I am not a expert, I am not a engineer, you don't seem to grasp the basic logic that I am not making myself out to be some engineer on here as I have said I'm not, what I am doing is by proving how all of you are being played by marketing hype I posted the names of some of the most accomplished and respected men in the fields that deal with the topic being discussed. I have posted links to credible sources and you just hate the fact someone on here dares stands up to you weekend warriors and calls you out and questions you, so that right there is ignorance on your part, this website isn't your little chat gang, it's a website, grow up, it's not your play ground and I also have gotten PM's from people thanking me as they enjoy watching me just play with you guys.

Outfitter03 wrote:

Where I come from calling people you don't really know liars because they are sharing personal information is just plain rude. Why you want to come to a forum and argue with and insult good people is beyond me.

Are you that naive to believe everyone's story on here? Well I guess I'm a Navy Seal Spec Ops astronaut who does secret covert operations for NASA. Like I said, anyone can be anything behind a computer, everyone thinks they're an expert, the internet is the best place to play these games, everyone acts like some Harvard grad intellectual elitist world traveler on the internet. lol

Outfitter03 wrote:

I have an idea. Don't buy any power cables that are better than what comes with your equipment and then be happy

Let the people who do want to purchase something different and discuss what they hear and share, do so in peace.

I agree with you, but don't act like some Best Buy sales rep trying to sell people $500 cables trying to convince them they will notice a difference. It's a scam baby, it's a scam!

Judging by the posted quotes of dv, I have to ask. Do ya'll think he realizes that he comes off as a babbling idiot?

I doubt it. The insane always think they are the only ones sane. However, he is providing plenty of amusment to the readers.

I believe that people are sincere and honest and believe they hear a difference with power cables. Nobody will convince them otherwise. I see no reason to call each other names however.

Hearing can be subjective.

Bluefox with your background in EE please explain how a PC can filter out noise if there i no inductance and a very small amount of capacitance in a power cord. I assume the PC has no added capacitors or inductors because then it would be a filter which is usually located in the electronic part. The PC is basically resistive and has no resonant frequency to filter any signal.

What is the difference between the PC construction or materials that would produce a better 120 ACV signal. Is there any science here?

BlueFox wrote: »

Beats me. Did someone claim a power cable can filter noise if there is no inductance and a very small amount of capacitance in a power cord? If so then you should ask them.

As I understand it, there were threads claiming a cleaner signal (120VAC) when using special fuses and PCs. These upgraded PCs produced an improved sound.

I just don't see how a well designed original PC can be improved or upgraded to improve the sound. What exactly is upgraded? It just contradicts the basic EE courses I have taken. I have an open mind and I am not trying to bust anyones balls, just trying to understand what's going on.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD.html

I read this short link and don't understand how one cable (the expensive shuny) has twice the current as the black cable. For this to happen you would need to blackcable with twice the resistance. All cables with the same gauge have the same resistance.
And all cables are subjected to Ohms Laws.

Another few minutes wasted reading the posts of a know-it-all who defines their life by the ability to save the unknowing with their superior intellect and wisdom.

Snoozeville! Come back when you have a better value proposition.

I wonder if I use a variety of power cables on my taser charger if DV would be able to tell the differences in the quality of the current delivered when I tase him/her? Now that would be an exciting double-blind triple-dog-dare, quadruple-get-lost type test!

tonyb wrote: »

Don't know the kind of forums your used to, but we don't roll like that around here.

I totally agree, Tony!

DigitalVideo, not everyone on the Internet is a disguising freak you think they are. I don't think many of us Polkies are of that kind anyway. You seems a little paranoid about that fact.

digitalvideo wrote: »

A great read by expers at Audioholics.com

"The Truth About Interconnects and Cables:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/the-truth-about-interconnects-and-cables

Some good quotes from the link:

OMG you guys! Experts exist at Audioholics! Dude this forum is such a waste of time.

Guess I gotta go throw out all my stuff now because audioholics would think its over rated. :rolleyes:

Oh and btw the only good surge protector is Surge X, and you know they have the best EE in the industry and what they say is golden....


oh and I would really really like to know what makes this guy an expert. Because if you go to his website it talks nothing about his background, schooling, etc. So I guess he must just be a big fake just like everyone and can't be trusted. How do I know he really went to school without a a phone number to call a prof there and to read all his work that he did. Oh and then how do I know that the person on the other end of the phone is really who they say they are without them showing up in person to prove they are real. See I can be stupid too.

DK is my hero!

A good tutorial on the fundamentals of transient behavior of electrical signals would explain this. A household circuit breaker rated for 15 or 20 amps can pass 100 or 200 amps for small fractions of a second. Music is full of transients that can cause huge power demands for fractions of a second.

I never said that the PC couldn't handle the amps for a few seconds, I just commented: How does this make it a better PC? I don't see the connection between max current capacity in a PC and improved audio performance. Just asking a question.

Maybe what you are saying is the PC materials can change the inductive and capacitive reactance in a PC to filter or reduce noise. That is certainly possible. But s simple LC filter can do that for very short money in the electronic equipment. Why not improve the filtering capacity of the electronic equipment. The wires inside the equipment can also pick up noise.

I'm never sure if the noise you are trying to stop/filter is from the power company or RF or both. Because the RF/EM noise is very where, but it is measured in microvolts.

I understand twised pair wiring but I didn't know PCs used that geometry. Are you saying some PCs use twisted pair geometry?

It's hard to discuss this stuff with you while you state that AC goes in only one direction. If you didn't state this then I'm sorry I got that wrong. And I'm not saying YOU don't hear a difference either.

Hey dkg999, Richard Feynman is my hero. Check him out.

Good book by him that is very funny: "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"

digitalvideo wrote: »

So far I have posted quite a few link/sources to back up my logic and I am not claiming I am the expert as you all can read from my above posts how I have posted that I am clearly not educated in this field, I rather use the quotes of world renowned engineers and other experts in the field who have written literature and contributed to it.

So far, you have not posted a single link that relates to power cord performance. Posting links that contain the word "power", along with electrical diagrams, does not mean the literature is related to power cords.

digitalvideo wrote: »

The only source from anyone is one source only and it's this "Shuntya" and does Shuntya make it's own power cords and what international achievements have their established and international awards have their won from international world standard groups? Is that "Shuntya" company a independent lab testing company that tests all sorts of power cables and aren't a power cable company themselves?

If you would take the time to read the Shunyata web-site you might learn something. Then again, probably not.

It is amazing how all the people below are fooled, and only you are wise enough to see through the clever marketing scam.



“All of us associated with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra are extremely pleased with the results gained from using the Shunyata Research Hydra and power cords in our reference recording studios.”
-- Peter Poltun, Manager: Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“The Anaconda PowerSnakes, have transformed our Sonoma system, used during the mastering process for the new 5.1 SACD mix of ‘The Dark Side of The Moon’.”
-- James Guthrie, Grammy award winning Producer/Engineer (Pink Floyd) CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“We now use the Hydra’s on our Model 2 converters, AES router and main monitor system consisting of B&W 802 speakers and Chord Amps.“
-- Clayton Wood, Senior Engineer: SkyWalker Sound CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“I could not recommend Shunyata Research products highly enough.”
-- Rick Rubin, Five-time Grammy nominated Record Producer CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“With digital sources it was almost as if we had switched from 44.1k/16 bit to96k/24 bit. We now run all our analogue machines, workstations and the mixing console from the Shunyata equipment.”
-- Andy Jackson, Senior Mastering Engineer: Astoria Studio UK CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“I would highly recommend Shunyata Research products to any professional
audio/video facility.”
-- Vlado Meller, Senior Mastering Engineer: Sony Music Studios, New York CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“I can honestly say that Shunyata Power Systems do contribute to a more solid, focused and accurate sonic picture.”
-- Tom Jung, President: Digital Music Products Inc. CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“Shunyata Research’s power distribution products have provided me with an extremely clean and transparent foundation by which I can check test pressings with full confidence.”
-- Steven Epstein, Producer, 12 time Grammy winner CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“I’ve run out of words to describe the profound effect Shunyata Research products have had on the SACD experience in our studio.”
-- Jon Truckenmiller, Sr. VP Engineering: Crest National Studios CLICK FOR MORE INFO

"Overall I think that Shunyata products are an integral part of taking the critical listening system to the next level."
-- Brett Allen, Studio Manager: Look Out Sound Studios CLICK FOR MORE INFO

"I no longer have to reach for my equalizers to find space for the details that I now have in spades. Lower noise levels let me get deeper into a mix without sacrificing power to my equipment. No anemic sounds here! Just music that always sounds right. I want to re-master my whole discography now!”
-- Phil Demetro, Mastering Engineer: The Lacquer Channel, Toronto CLICK FOR MORE INFO

"...the system now produces an audio hologram that much more closely approximates a live performance. Thanks for your recommendation of this excellent product."
-- Doug Munch, New Jersey Philharmonic Orchestra CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“The Shunyata products are the most effective AC products I’ve had in my system.”
-- Robert Harley, Editor-In-Chief, The Absolute Sound Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“Fine layers of haze and noise vaporized with the Shunyata’s feeding my components.”
-- Paul Bolin, Contributing Editor: Stereophile Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“The Hydra Model-8 is an amazing product!”
-- Michael Fremer, Senior Contributing Editor: Stereophile Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“Every power amp I plugged into a Hydra sounded noticeably better than when plugged directly into the wall -- wow!
-- Wes Philips: Senior Contributing Editor: Stereophile Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“The Python Helix offered a consistently clearer, more vivid view of the music.”
-- Marc Mickelson, Editor-in-Chief, SoundStage! Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO

“The way my Shunyata-powered system captured and reproduced the low-level resolution of the finest recordings was stunning.”
-- Jeff Fritz, Editor: SoundStage! Magazine CLICK FOR MORE INFO


Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Along with the New York Philharmonic, the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra is regarded as arguably the finest and most skilled group of musicians in the world. With multiple recordings to their credit and complete sound studios the Vienna Orchestra treat every portion of their performances and recordings with extreme care and attention to detail.

After learning of the reputation of Shunyata Research products throughout Europe and within other top recording studios, executive Peter Poltun sought out samples of Shunyata products for testing. Their results followed those of every other studio that has evaluated Shunyata Research products.

"All of us associated with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra are extremely pleased with the results gained from using the Shunyata Research Hydra and power cords in our reference recording studios. These outstanding, musical products have enhanced our recordings and made it easier for our musicians to hear the detail of their instruments!"
-- Peter Poltun, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra

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Grammy Winning Mastering Engineers James Guthrie and Doug Sax
The reputations of Mastering Engineers Doug Sax and James Guthrie are beyond reproach.

They are two of the most prolific and sought after mastering engineers in the recording industry, and their body of work is legendary.

Doug Sax's work includes recordings by James Taylor, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Alison Kraus, Diana Krall, Linda Ronstadt, Tom Waits, Aaron Neville, Chris Isaak, Ray Charles, Chet Atkins and countless others. James Guthrie's resume is no less impressive, having been credited with work on 6 Pink Floyd albums and dozens of popular recording artists.

James and Doug learned of Shunyata Research's products through David Gilmour's Astoria recording studio in the United Kingdom. After listening and recording with Shunyata Research products, both Guthrie and Sax were so impressed that they installed Shunyata products into their Sonoma digital mastering chain. Shunyata Research products were most recently utilized at Guthrie's Das Boot Studio for the re-master of Dark Side of the Moon on Sony's SACD format.

“As studio owners, we are regularly exposed to numerous ‘quality enhancement products’ and have naturally become cautious and very selective; you rarely achieve an audible improvement without somehow adversely affecting another element in the audio chain. We have been using Shunyata power cables at my studio for some time now. Careful placement of the cables has resulted in reduced distortion, improved clarity, better low level detail and richer 3-dimensional depth in the soundstage. The Anaconda PowerSnakes, for example, have transformed our Sonoma system, used during the mastering process for the new 5.1 mix of ‘The Dark Side of The Moon’. I look forward to trying the Hydra AC distribution next. Highly recommended."
-- James Guthrie, Grammy award winning Producer/Engineer (Pink Floyd)

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SkyWalker Sound (Lucas Films)
Easily one of the most complete and lavish film and recording studios in the world, SkyWalker Ranch needs little introduction. SkyWalker Sound is the division of SkyWalker Ranch responsible for all audio, sound-effects, post production audio, IMAX sound and multi-format audio. SkyWalker sound has garnered 14 Academy Awards since its inception, as well as multiple media awards for quality and sound innovation. SkyWalker Sound is also a complete scoring and recording studio that records renowned artists such as Amy Grant, Herbie Hancock, Faith Hill and countless others.

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Grammy Winning Record Producer Rick Rubin
As a multiple Grammy winning music producer of recording artists such as Tom Petty, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Johnny Cash, Jay Hawks, Neil Diamond, Public Enemy and many others, Rick Rubin has earned his reputation as the most versatile and gifted producer working in the music and recording industry.



http://www.shunyata.com/Content/endorsements-Prof.html

more Shunyata testimonials:

DMP Records, President Tom Jung
Since 1983 DMP has been producing the finest quality recordings for jazz lovers and audiophiles alike working with seminally gifted, but under appreciated musicians. In a world of over compressed and over processed recordings, DMP’s live-minimalists recording approach captures critical nuances and natural dynamics using the most direct and pristine electronic signal path possible. The result is a refreshing and honest representation of great musicians playing music together in the same room at the same time.

"I have been very skeptical of power related tweaks above and beyond good basic engineering practices like wire sizing, proper grounding and good solid connections. That said I tried to be open to the merits of the Shunyata approach regarding power management. After living with various power cables, outlets and Hydra AC distribution systems for several months while working on my DMP Archive Project, I can honestly say that Shunyata Power Systems do contribute to a more solid, focused and accurate sonic picture."
-- Tom Jung, President: Digital Music Products Inc.

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Stephen Epstein: 12 Time Grammy Winning Record Producer
Stephen Epstein is one of the most recognizable names in the professional recording industry. His stellar talents are showcased with Classical recording legends such as Yo Yo Ma, Wynton Marsalis, Isaac Stern, Itzhak Perlman, Placido Domingo and countless others. He has earned a near record total of 12 Grammy awards, 6 for Classical Producer Of The Year.

Stephen became aware of Shunyata Research products because of fellow record producers and mastering engineer at Sony music New York, Vlado Meller. Stephen contacted Shunyata Research directly to inquire about an evaluation. The products performed as expected and Stephen purchased an entire power distribution system.

"For many years, I've tried and tested power conditioners by major manufacturers with varying results. I'm pleased to say that I can now put my search for the elusive optimal AC conditioner to rest. The Hydra Model-8 and Hydra Model-2 power conditioners coupled with Shunyata's power cables have provided me with an extremely clean and transparent foundation by which I can check and approve test pressings with full confidence."
-- Steven Epstein, 12 time Grammy winner 6 time Grammy winner: "Classical Producer Of The Year”

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Phillips’ Crest National Studios
Located in Hollywood California, Crest National is one of the largest music and film industry studio chains in the United States. Crest National consists of motion picture film labs, digital restoration services, DVD authoring and design, editing, sub-mastering and media encoding, among a host of other professional services. They are a partner of Philips International and remain one of the world's top providers of DVD Audio and CD replication. Due to their exceptional reputation and prolific manufacturing capability, Crest National was selected by Philips to be the only United States SACD replication plant.

Crest National's fanatical dedication to quality control led them to construct a state-of-the-art 5.1 channel quality control playback studio. Crest spared no expense to obtain the finest electronics from Halcro (amplifiers), Meitner Labs (switching controls) and Eggleston Works (speakers). Based on the recommendations of top studio executives and mastering engineers, Crest sought out an evaluation of a complete Shunyata Research power and signal cable system. At the conclusion of their testing, Crest purchased Shunyata Research's entire system of power and signal distribution products, and commented on the significant impact Shunyata products had on the resolution of their state of the art system.

"I've run out of words to describe the effect Shunyata Research has had on the SACD experience in our studio. From the mass and quality of the Hydra power distribution center with it's dynamic openness, the clarity gleaned from the Anaconda Alpha/Anaconda VX, and the direct detail obtained from the interconnects and speaker cables. Shunyata Research has put a very positive signature on Crest National's, Hollywood reference listening experience."
-- Jon Truckenmiller, Sr. VP Engineering: Crest National Studios

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Look Out Sound Studios
Upon casual inspection, one might wonder whether Look Out Sound Studios was named after its scenic Montana surroundings or its astounding recording facilities. An overview of Lookout’s principal mastering and playback systems will make the name far less ambiguous. Look Out owner Brett Allen spared no expense in assembling the finest Direct Stream Digital recording systems and playback equipment in the world. Lookout utilizes the state-of-the-art Genex DSD hard drive systems, as well as the Solid State Logic 9048K XL, the top 5.1 analog mixing console in the world. Look Out sports the finest recording, mastering and playback equipment, including multiple pairs of Wilson Audio’s Statement speaker systems, the X2 Alexandrias. Halcro amplification and digital playback systems from Meitner labs complete Look Out’s monitor and playback systems. The name Look Out is obviously intended to serve notice that reference-quality recording and mastering is alive and well in Montana.

Lookout’s Bret Allen was referred to Shunyata Research power-systems by the principals of Halcro, Wilson Audio and VTL, who use Shunyata products within their own testing and playback systems. After extensive tests and comparisons, Look Out Studios purchased an entire series of Shunyata Research power-system products based on the performance they offered within recording and playback systems.

"We are using various Shunyata products to further our quest for the best signal path in tracking, mixing, and mastering. The Hydra Model-2 and Hydra Model-6 on various vintage guitar amps and vintage analog keyboards have made a world of difference in clarity and punch. We are using the Python line for our 24-track tape machine, DACs, tube preamps, and tube microphone power supplies. On the power amps we have the Taipan line. Again I have noticed more definition in the transients. Overall I think that Shunyata products are an integral part of taking the critical listening system to the next level."
-- Brett Allen, Studio Manager: Look Out Sound Studios

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Lacquer Channel Mastering (Canada)
Considered Canada’s premier mastering facility, Lacquer Channel works with many of the world’s most renowned recording artists, including U2, Bryan Adams, Holly Cole and many others. These top artists sought out Lacquer Channel because of their reputation as Canada’s most well-equipped and professional recording and mastering facility.

Lacquer Channel mastering engineer Phil Demetro discovered Shunyata Research products through a local dealer, and discovered that the Hydra and PowerSnakes products significantly improved the resolution of their mastering and playback systems of which they are now a permanent part. Lacquer Channel actively recommends Shunyata products to their contacts in the mastering and recording industries.

“After trying numerous top shelf brands of power distribution and IC's for my mastering facility, only the Shunyata Research Hydra's and PowerSnakes remained as a vital part of my signal path and playback system. It's never been so easy to achieve the great sound that I have been striving for -- I no longer have to reach for my equalizers to find space for the details that I now have in spades. Lower noise levels let me get deeper into a mix without sacrificing power to my equipment. No anemic sounds here! Just music that always sounds right. I want to re-master my whole discography now!”
-- Phil Demetro, Mastering Engineer: The Lacquer Channel, Toronto

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Sony Music (Japan) Mastering Facility
The name says it all. At the very top level within Sony Music recording and mastering labs, no one is more exacting, more obsessive about sound and performance than the men in charge of their recording and mastering labs. Everything must be perfect, and cost is no object when it comes to recreating music and sound that is true to life.

The top Japanese executives from Sony Music were exposed to Shunyata Research products during James Guthrie’s re-mastering of Dark Side Of The Moon for SACD at Guthrie’s Das Boot Studio. Mastering engineers Guthrie and Doug Sax endorsed Shunyata Research products to the principle executives from Sony Music, and facilitated the loan of Shunyata products for testing within Sony’s Mastering systems. After lengthy testing, a series of Shunyata Research power-system products were purchased for use in Sony Music’s mastering facilities. All music mastered within Sony Music’s Japanese facility is now being mastered using Shunyata Research power-system products.

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Memory Technology (Japan)
Memory Technology is the largest CD/DVD manufacturer in Japan and one of the largest in the world, with over $100 million annual sales. Memory Technology is part of the largest trading firm in Japan, and also owns and runs music and video production companies.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/endorsements-Prof.html