Power Cable Question

BlueFox

jcandy wrote: »

DV brought up the very good point of people with perhaps quite limited disposable income effectively throwing it away on audio esoterica.

Actually, he just made that up with no data to support it. :rolleyes:

bikezappa

I just don't have the time to comment on all your points. You win with the comments.

I will just say that EE science/practice starts with Ohms Law and goes to the complex form of Ohms Law. Any theory/experiment that contradicts that law should be checked out very carefully.

Just one thing however, please show me any referance that states that AC voltage in our homes goes in one direction.

Why are there diodes in power supplies? To rectify the alternating current.

DarqueKnight

dorokusai wrote: »

DK - Even our forum has had some of those observations, like AQ and PSA, advice and recommendations yet every year we get 3-4 people who think were just constantly trying to get members to spend.

It makes me wonder why people would waste time coming from the more enlightened forums to try to educate us gullible morons.

BlueFox wrote: »

Actually, he just made that up with no data to support it. :rolleyes:

I can't recall a previous case of someone visiting our forum and claiming knowledge of our membership's financial status.

DarqueKnight

bikezappa wrote: »

I just don't have the time to comment on all your points. You win with the comments.

It's not about winning Peter. I was just entertaining your questions. You posted some questions so I assumed you wanted to have a discussion. I don't see why you always feel the need to run off whenever someone tries to engage you in a technical discussion, yet you are always asking technical questions. It is amazing how you find plenty of time to ask questions but you never have time to answer any. Obviously, you feel that you should be the only one allowed to ask questions in a discussion. I'm sorry you feel that we are not worthy to ask questions of you. I assume that is the price we pay for being morons.

bikezappa wrote: »

What a collection of morons.

bikezappa wrote: »

I wonder what the collective IQ is on this forum.

bikezappa wrote: »

Do you people need to be spoon feed?

bikezappa wrote: »

I will just say that EE science/practice starts with Ohms Law and goes to the complex form of Ohms Law. Any theory/experiment that contradicts that law should be checked out very carefully.

Just one thing however, please show me any referance that states that AC voltage in our homes goes in one direction.

bikezappa wrote: »

It's hard to discuss this stuff with you while you state that AC goes in only one direction. If you didn't state this then I'm sorry I got that wrong.

Hi Peter,

I thought we had settled this, but I see it is still bothering you after a couple of years and several people trying to explain it to you. If you would like to have a more in depth discussion on AC, then we can start another thread.

I know you don't like reading stuff in science journals, so here is a quote from Wikipedia:

"In a simple alternating current (AC) circuit consisting of a source and a linear load, both the current and voltage are sinusoidal. If the load is purely resistive, the two quantities reverse their polarity at the same time. At every instant the product of voltage and current is positive, indicating that the direction of energy flow does not reverse. In this case, only real power is transferred."

If the load is purely reactive, then the voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. For half of each cycle, the product of voltage and current is positive, but on the other half of the cycle, the product is negative, indicating that on average, exactly as much energy flows toward the load as flows back. There is no net energy flow over one cycle. In this case, only reactive energy flows—there is no net transfer of energy to the load.

Practical loads have resistance, inductance, and capacitance, so both real and reactive power will flow to real loads. Power engineers measure apparent power as the vector sum of real and reactive power. Apparent power is the product of the root-mean-square voltage and current."

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ac_power

Here is a thought experiment for you:

If an incandescent bulb is connected to an AC circuit, is the bulb producing light continuously or is it actually flashing on and off?

If the light is actually flashing, is the flashing due to a reversal of the direction of current?

If the current is reversing direction through the bulb, why wouldn't it stay on continuously, since a light bulb does not care which way current flows through its filament?

Please explain.

bikezappa wrote: »

Why are there diodes in power supplies? To rectify the alternating current.

I don't know Peter. I'm stumped on this one. You seem to have a good grasp of AC theory. Perhaps you can clear this up for me. Does the term "alternating" in AC refer to an alternation between forward and rearward motion of the electric current or does it refer to an alternation between positive and negative in the sinusoidal waveform or both? In other words, is it possible for a waveform to move forward while its amplitude alternates between positive and negative values?

I hope you will find time in your busy day to answer a few questions, if not for me, then for the edification of our forum membership.

Thanks.

BlueFox

bikezappa wrote: »

I will just say that EE science/practice starts with Ohms Law and goes to the complex form of Ohms Law. Any theory/experiment that contradicts that law should be checked out very carefully.

My basic electronic schooling indicated that while Ohm's Law is okay for simple DC circuits, you need to use calculus for AC circuits. Is that wrong?

bikezappa

BlueFox wrote: »

My basic electronic schooling indicated that while Ohm's Law is okay for simple DC circuits, you need to use calculus for AC circuits. Is that wrong?

You need to use imaginary numbers (i) for complex AC ciruits.

Calculas always helps.

DK you like to bring up the past. I have admitted to mistakes in a previous thread.

Your quote about Energy flow is not the same as reversing the AC voltage and current. Sorry. They have different units.

praedet

Since you have ignored my posts so far DigitalVideo, please provide me a scientific article as to why the specific music you listen to is the best...

jcandy

Face wrote: »

This isn't a dig against Salk, but that "hand made woofer" doesn't have the best QC record and sometimes is on a long backorder. No thanks!

Yeah, the backorder issue is real. I think patience will be rewarded, however.

digitalvideo

praedet wrote: »

Since you have ignored my posts so far DigitalVideo, please provide me a scientific article as to why the specific music you listen to is the best...

So it's gotten to this point now of such desperation as to compare one's taste in music to cables? This is almost as absurd and funny as the "Dark Knight" comparing his fashion and designer clothes to cables. Do you want to lower this debate even further and compare one's preference for cologne and perfume to cables next? And now you know why I ignore your posts. If you want me to change my opinion of you then don't ask stupid questions.

jcandy

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The only people that I see with a mystical fixation on cables and the people who use them, are the people who have either:

1. Never tried a high(er) performance cable.
2. Tried a high(er) performance cable ONCE, didn't hear an improvement and concluded that anyone who says they did hear an improvement is delusional.

People who doubt the veracity of cable-claims by definition do not view them with a sense of mysticism.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Why not just upgrade the girlfriend, wife, house, etc? The grass is not always greener on the other side. Sometimes you get a little more in one area but lose a lot more in other areas. Sometimes you just like what you have and would rather improve that than go in another direction. This is particularly true of speakers

I agree with this so far. Alas, its the nature of the incremental improvement that is the basis of disagreement. Despite the numerous protestations of expertise and golden ears by many here, I don't agree with the variables that some audiophiles use (i.e., esoteric power cables) to generate the incremental improvement.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

You can go to the system showcase to see exactly what many of us are running. You will find that we are using cables and other associated accessories that are appropriate to the electronics and speakers we are using.

How can you make a general statement about appropriateness like that? You're saying that nobody with Monitor 10s uses exotic RCA/speaker wire/power cable? For some reason, I am reminded of a comment Vance Dickason makes in his book on speaker building in connection with diffraction. He points out that the vase your wife puts on top of the speaker has an effect on the diffracted SPL that may be comparable to a rounded baffle edge. I rarely hear about baffle treatments or internal/external bracing of the speaker as upgrade paths. Why not? I also showed in various measurements of the SDA2B that removing the speaker grill has as profound an effect on the SPL as upgrading the tweeter (SL2000 -> RDO 194). The cable-mystics here rejected this approach out of hand, responded with pointless ad hominems, and made it clear to me that there is a real prejudice against measurement. This is just wrong-headed and irrational, and will not lead you in the right direction when it comes to better audio.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Some mass-market speakers have excellent designs that were implemented with mediocre crossover parts.

You mean the crossover design is excellent but the L/C/R bits are mediocre? That isn't my impression. Usually, mass-market speakers use simple low-component-count crossovers as a cost-saving and complexity-reducing measure. For example, here is the ladder-delay crossover used in the Zaph ZD5 2-way:



Compare this to the simple design in the Monitor series, for example. A further irony is that Zaph designed the advanced ZD5 crossover with "mediocre" caps, etc, in mind. He optimized on driver quality (Scan Speak 15W8530K00) and crossover design, not esoteric capacitors and foil inductors.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

This does not make sense. I can't imagine that any competent loudspeaker manufacturer wouldn't audition their speakers with a variety of amps, source components and cables.

Its not about what you can imagine, its about how speakers are actually designed. A designer generally has a fixed setup (cables, amp, room, mic, software) that is used to take the in-box driver measurements required to generate the SPL data for crossover design, then to help with tweaking the final system. There is almost certainly no optimization of the crossover component values for differing resistive loads of the speaker cable. My guess would be that the typical crossover will operate closer to its design curve with some resistive load (say 0.15 Ohms) due to the cable than no load at all. Similarly, in a typical well-designed crossover, if you replace an inductor with a "better" inductor with different DCR, the result will not be an improvement.

heiney9

jcandy wrote: »

I also showed in various measurements of the SDA2B that removing the speaker grill has as profound an effect on the SPL as upgrading the tweeter (SL2000 -> RDO 194). The cable-mystics here rejected this approach out of hand, responded with pointless ad hominems, and made it clear to me that there is a real prejudice against measurement. This is just wrong-headed and irrational, and will not lead you in the right direction when it comes to better audio.

Because many of us subscribe to this thought and it seems to have done well for a very well regarded designer. I strongly disagree with the bolded statement.

"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

I am not saying measurements have no value or basis, but many times there are instances where things measure one way and sound another. Measurements only tell a very small part of the entire story.

H9

jcandy

heiney9 wrote: »

I am not saying measurements have no value or basis, but many times there are instances where things measure one way and sound another. Measurements only tell a very small part of the entire story.

I disagree. You can design speakers which are guaranteed to be quite good simply by ensuring (1) the measured SPL is flat, (2) the measured phase does not wrap around excessively, (3) measured driver break-up is sufficiently attenuated (the more the better), (4) the measured impedance does not drop below 4 (or desired floor) ohms. In other words, a deaf person is perfectly able to design very good speakers using measurement only (no voicing). Designing great speakers also requires much closer attention to distortion measurements, off-axis behaviour, power response, etc -- all of which can be measured.

There is no doubt that certain things like tweeter padding can be done by ear, and depend on the application (small active room, large treated room, etc). But to say that measurement has anything other than a critical role in speaker design is to admit you don't know how quality speakers are designed.

DarqueKnight

bikezappa wrote: »

You need to use imaginary numbers (i) for complex AC ciruits.

Thanks for the math lesson. You so smaaht.

bikezappa wrote: »

DK you like to bring up the past.

I didn't think you would mind since you do it so often. Haven't you been bringing up this AC stuff for at least two years and often in threads that are totally unrelated to the topic?

bikezappa wrote: »

Your quote about Energy flow is not the same as reversing the AC voltage and current. Sorry. They have different units.

Please answer the specific questions I asked you...if you can. I am doing you the honor of being my teacher.

praedet

digitalvideo wrote: »

So it's gotten to this point now of such desperation as to compare one's taste in music to cables? This is almost as absurd and funny as the "Dark Knight" comparing his fashion and designer clothes to cables. Do you want to lower this debate even further and compare one's preference for cologne and perfume to cables next? And now you know why I ignore your posts. If you want me to change my opinion of you then don't ask stupid questions.

Wow, I love ad hominems...

Shows just what type of person we are dealing with. The point is that listening is subjective. Period.

YOU have no ability to truly understand the links you are posting, so why do you believe them? Based on your arguments, only an "engineer" can understand them. So that means you can't, and you are just parroting something beyond your understanding, taken entirely out of context.

I guarantee your guy from Surge-X is very specific about the wiring and components in his products. Awfully interesting seeing as how it doesn't matter...

And, since you would like to dismiss me out of hand, PM me if you want my credentials and a link to where you can see if they are accurate...

Face

jcandy wrote: »

I rarely hear about baffle treatments or internal/external bracing of the speaker as upgrade paths.

There are a few threads here about internal damping of SDA's using Sonic Barrier, BH5, extra bracing, wall bracing, and different driver mounting techniques.

jcandy wrote: »

Why not? I also showed in various measurements of the SDA2B that removing the speaker grill has as profound an effect on the SPL as upgrading the tweeter (SL2000 -> RDO 194). The cable-mystics here rejected this approach out of hand, responded with pointless ad hominems, and made it clear to me that there is a real prejudice against measurement.

Again, you know better than this. FR is everything? The RD0-194 is a different tweeter from the ground up, but designed to be a drop in replacement without any changes to the crossover. Compare distortion plots between the two, with and without the crossover in place. Plus, there are some of here who believe that some SL2000's age better than others. It's possible that there were also production changes as well, but not all of them are as harsh as others.

jcandy wrote: »

You mean the crossover design is excellent but the L/C/R bits are mediocre? That isn't my impression. Usually, mass-market speakers use simple low-component-count crossovers as a cost-saving and complexity-reducing measure. For example, here is the ladder-delay crossover used in the Zaph ZD5 2-way:



Compare this to the simple design in the Monitor series, for example. A further irony is that Zaph designed the advanced ZD5 crossover with "mediocre" caps, etc, in mind. He optimized on driver quality (Scan Speak 15W8530K00) and crossover design, not esoteric capacitors and foil inductors.

Yes, and on average, how do his speakers score at DIY events?

DarqueKnight

jcandy wrote: »

People who doubt the veracity of cable-claims by definition do not view them with a sense of mysticism.

Who among our membership has a mystical view of cables?

jcandy wrote: »

Despite the numerous protestations of expertise and golden ears by many here, I don't agree with the variables that some audiophiles use (i.e., esoteric power cables) to generate the incremental improvement.

Do you have some theoretical foundation that proves that power cords cannot provide audible improvements in audio equipment?

jcandy wrote: »

How can you make a general statement about appropriateness like that?

The same way you do.

jcandy wrote: »

You're saying that nobody with Monitor 10s uses exotic RCA/speaker wire/power cable?

You're saying that you have proof of someone on this forum who does?

jcandy wrote: »

The cable-mystics here rejected this approach out of hand, responded with pointless ad hominems, and made it clear to me that there is a real prejudice against measurement. This is just wrong-headed and irrational, and will not lead you in the right direction when it comes to better audio.

Then why stick around if you are not getting anywhere...if your therories are not being accepted? Is this some sort of "challenge" for you?

jcandy wrote: »

You mean the crossover design is excellent but the L/C/R bits are mediocre?

Yes.

jcandy wrote: »

Its not about what you can imagine, its about how speakers are actually designed. A designer generally has a fixed setup (cables, amp, room, mic, software) that is used to take the in-box driver measurements required to generate the SPL data for crossover design, then to help with tweaking the final system. There is almost certainly no optimization of the crossover component values for differing resistive loads of the speaker cable.

You said "almost certainly", which means you really don't know do you?

heiney9

jcandy wrote: »

But to say that measurement has anything other than a critical role in speaker design is to admit you don't know how quality speakers are designed.

This is a cable thread, not a speaker thread. My comment was really based on cables and amps, etc. Not so much speakers. I agree to a small degree measurements in entire speaker design are important.

I still disagree with your findings in regards to the sl2000/RD0. Now let's keep it on topic here for future readers wanting info on cables. Start a thread about the sl2000/RD0 topic. Lot's of people going waaaaaaaaaayyyy off topic lately. It's annoying.

H9

jcandy

praedet wrote: »

The point is that listening is subjective. Period.

A given person's listening experience is indeed a subjective one in the purest philosophical sense of the word, whereas listening as a human capability is an objective phenomenon. Similarly, even though your own experience of a headache is subjective (after all, nobody can have your headache for you), headaches are objectively real things, with objectively real treatments (aspirin, tylenol, etc).

With regard to objective aspects of listening, note that how a typical listener hears different frequencies at different levels (Fletcher–Munson curves) is objective and quite measurable. If your subjective experience significantly contradicts these sorts of things, there is something wrong with your hearing.[/QUOTE]

jcandy

heiney9 wrote: »

This is a cable thread, not a speaker thread. My comment was really based on cables and amps, etc. Not so much speakers.

Fair enough. My discussion of speakers was in reference to speaker wire. Because of its effect on the crossover, It may be that a 10 foot run of simple 14 gauge cable is optimal for a given speaker, not a 5 foot run of 10 gauge. It might be that a 20 foot run of 14 gauge is optimal. There may thus be no correlation between exotic wire and optimal sound.

But in relation to power cable, test after test shows that if power cables make a difference its at a level that is at the fringe (or below) of human detection. It also seems that the optimal power cable would be the one made from either 12 or 14 gauge romex (at a few cents per foot).

jcandy

DarqueKnight wrote: »

You said "almost certainly", which means you really don't know do you?

Of course I know. I know that the vast majority of designers do not design sixteen different crossovers, one for each amplifier or change in signal path, and then average or optimize over that ensemble. So, for a given speaker, it has almost certainly been developed with a single "standard" set of cables and measurement equipment. My design cable is an 18-20 foot (don't recall the exact length) length of Dayton 14 gauge wire.

moodyman

The power supply in audio gear is designed to supply its associated circuits with regulated and filtered DC voltage that adhere to precise specifications. Its designed to do this whether your house AC voltage is 110VAC or 125VAC.

I find it absolutely baffling to think that changing a perfectly functioning power cord for a different perfectly functioning power cord will result in audible improvements.

I don't understand power cord how believers explain away the fact that you have miles of power lines, subject to a myriad of environmental and electrical variables, feeding your fancy 2 foot new power cord. Yet, somehow, you can hear differences attributed to that 2 foot cord.

But if changing power cords makes you happy..then by all means go for it. I swear my cars runs better after a I give it a good wash! I'm sure a lot of people will relate to that

heiney9

moodyman wrote: »

The power supply in audio gear is designed to supply its associated circuits with regulated and filtered DC voltage that adhere to precise specifications. Its designed to do this whether your house AC voltage is 110VAC or 125VAC.

I find it absolutely baffling to think that changing a perfectly functioning power cord for a different perfectly functioning power cord will result in audible improvements.

I don't understand power cord how believers explain away the fact that you have miles of power lines, subject to a myriad of environmental and electrical variables, feeding your fancy 2 foot new power cord. Yet, somehow, you can hear differences attributed to that 2 foot cord.

But if changing power cords makes you happy..then by all means go for it. I swear my cars runs better after a I give it a good wash! I'm sure a lot of people will relate to that

Have you tried it, you know, experimenting with different cables over a 6 month period? Or do you go through life being baffled about everything thing you haven't ever tried. :rolleyes:

H9

BlueFox

Where do all these low post count know-it-alls come from? Every time this subject comes up, the know-it-alls appear like worms on a sidewalk after a storm, and try to convince everyone their intellectual superiority outshines anyone else. Of course, they all have zero, to very little, experience with the subject, but who ever let that get in the way.

heiney9

moodyman wrote: »

The power supply in audio gear is designed to supply its associated circuits with regulated and filtered DC voltage that adhere to precise specifications. Its designed to do this whether your house AC voltage is 110VAC or 125VAC.

Except many higher end amps use unregulated power supplies, mine does. So you might want to recheck your facts.

H9

jcandy

Face wrote: »

There are a few threads here about internal damping of SDA's using Sonic Barrier, BH5, extra bracing, wall bracing, and different driver mounting techniques.

And are there measurements to back up the techniques which are otherwise hit-or-miss? Sometimes the effect of a seemingly simple modification is complex. If you are familiar with the Benson equations, for example, you know that adding damping material (say fiberglass) can alter LF tuning in a ported enclosure significantly. Trying to sort out these effects purely by ear is not efficient.

Face wrote: »

Again, you know better than this. FR is everything

You have made the point that FR is not "everything" and I have responded repeatedly agreeing and adding clarification. On the other hand, it is certainly not "nothing" and the value of a few SPL measurements can be worth their weight (let's imagine they are heavy) in gold.

Face wrote: »

The RD0-194 is a different tweeter from the ground up, but designed to be a drop in replacement without any changes to the crossover. Compare distortion plots between the two, with and without the crossover in place.

I admit that I haven't done distortion testing. There are a few reasons why -- for example, tweeter distortion is a peculiar issue, with people often preferring the tweeter with higher distortion in listening tests, so the SL2000 brightness issue is not likely a distortion issue. But, you're right, the test should be done. I'll do a distortion measurement to compare, O.K.?

Face wrote: »

Plus, there are some of here who believe that some SL2000's age better than others. It's possible that there were also production changes as well, but not all of them are as harsh as others.

Very good point. I should note that the SL2000s I used were actually labelled in the box as SL2000T (but on the magnet as SL2000). Is it possible I am using a generation that is better than the original SL2000?

inspiredsports

jcandy wrote: »

Of course I know. I know that the vast majority of designers do not design sixteen different crossovers, one for each amplifier or change in signal path, and then average or optimize over that ensemble. So, for a given speaker, it has almost certainly been developed with a single "standard" set of cables and measurement equipment. My design cable is an 18-20 foot (don't recall the exact length) length of Dayton 14 gauge wire.

You've made dozens of fair comments, seem sincere and reasonable, and seem as if you've been at this a bit, but stuck in the measurement loop.

Would you ever entertain the, "If measures good and sounds bad, it's bad, and if it measures bad and sounds good, it's good" camp?

If you have the time to really experiment and listen, I honestly believe you will be to discern nice improvements using some of the more highly engineereed cables and IC's versus Romex and Dayton wire.

Further, I believe you will find it's not the "clean car after the car wash runs better" scenario.

digitalvideo

This debate is about power cords, if there are any benefits to them, which models to buy, cost/performance ratio factor and value. All those questions belong here whether the ultra sensitive cable crowd likes it or not.

To spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power cord or speaker cables is like spending $10,000 on a new exhaust for your car or truck for the "performance and sound" factor which nets a 5 hp gain at most that most people who ride in the vehicle won't notice and don't give a damn about. It's your right to buy it, it's your money, spend as your heart's desire but don't get defensive when people come along and question you, mock you, doubt you because it's their right as well, deal with it and man up. People have a right to question your actions so stop getting defensive like a male Bravo Channel interior decorator who doesn't like when people question his taste in drapes and scent candles.

If you want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on materialistic and superficial things that aren't important to one's survival then go ahead, but you have no right to then whine and complain about health insurance prices and say you can't afford health insurance or it's too expensive, you can't afford your mortgage etc, because your stupid priorities are out of touch with most common sense straight thinking people on this planet especially in a world wide recession. It's people like you as to why we had a housing crisis because people weren't living within their means, spending wrecklessly on things they didn't need then these same idiots blame the banks and insurance companies for the debt they put themselves in on their own. People like "YOU" are to blame for putting the banks and mortgage companies in this position to begin with. LOL! So stupid!

How many of you want to bet we got idiots on here who want a Public Option and "Single Payer" so tax payers will pay their health coverage while they splurge on non important stuff like those idiots in Europe who put their countries in massive debt which even rivals ours per GDP?

inspiredsports

digitalvideo wrote: »

This debate is about power cords, if there are any benefits to them, which models to buy, cost/performance ratio factor and value. All those questions belong here whether the ultra sensitive cable crowd likes it or not.

To spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power cord or speaker cables is like spending $10,000 on a new exhaust for your car or truck for the "performance and sound" factor which nets a 5 hp gain at most that most people who ride in the vehicle won't notice and don't give a damn about. It's your right to buy it, it's your money, spend as your heart's desire but don't get defensive when people come along and question you, mock you, doubt you because it's their right as well, deal with it and man up. People have a right to question your actions so stop getting defensive like a male Bravo Channel interior decorator who doesn't like when people question his taste in drapes and scent candles.

If you want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on materialistic and superficial things that aren't important to one's survival then go ahead, but you have no right to then whine and complain about health insurance prices and say you can't afford health insurance or it's too expensive, you can't afford your mortgage etc, because your stupid priorities are out of touch with most common sense straight thinking people on this planet especially in a world wide recession. It's people like you as to why we had a housing crisis because people weren't living within their means, spending wrecklessly on things they didn't need then these same idiots blame the banks and insurance companies for the debt they put themselves in on their own. People like "YOU" are to blame for putting the banks and mortgage companies in this position to begin with. LOL! So stupid!

How many of you want to bet we got idiots on here who want a Public Option and "Single Payer" so tax payers will pay their health coverage while they splurge on non important stuff like those idiots in Europe who put their countries in massive debt which even rivals ours per GDP?

I'm not so sure about your "5 additional horsepower analogy". Maximum horsepower shows up somewhere around WOT (wide open throttle). You don't have a clue it's there cruising at 65mph down the interstate.

My cables add the same improvement over a wide range of from ambient room db +1 to as loud as I'm willing to go during that listening session.



P.S.: debt and materialism, and did you mean Barney/Chris policies? Back to that, eh?

DMara

digitalvideo wrote: »

This debate is about power cords, if there are any benefits to them, which models to buy, cost/performance ratio factor and value. All those questions belong here whether the ultra sensitive cable crowd likes it or not.

To spend hundreds or thousands of dollars for a power cord or speaker cables is like spending $10,000 on a new exhaust for your car or truck for the "performance and sound" factor which nets a 5 hp gain at most that most people who ride in the vehicle won't notice and don't give a damn about. It's your right to buy it, it's your money, spend as your heart's desire but don't get defensive when people come along and question you, mock you, doubt you because it's their right as well, deal with it and man up. People have a right to question your actions so stop getting defensive like a male Bravo Channel interior decorator who doesn't like when people question his taste in drapes and scent candles.

If you want to spend a ridiculous amount of money on materialistic and superficial things that aren't important to one's survival then go ahead, but you have no right to then whine and complain about health insurance prices and say you can't afford health insurance or it's too expensive, you can't afford your mortgage etc, because your stupid priorities are out of touch with most common sense straight thinking people on this planet especially in a world wide recession. It's people like you as to why we had a housing crisis because people weren't living within their means, spending wrecklessly on things they didn't need then these same idiots blame the banks and insurance companies for the debt they put themselves in on their own. People like "YOU" are to blame for putting the banks and mortgage companies in this position to begin with. LOL! So stupid!
How many of you want to bet we got idiots on here who want a Public Option and "Single Payer" so tax payers will pay their health coverage while they splurge on non important stuff like those idiots in Europe who put their countries in massive debt which even rivals ours per GDP?

When you called people whose thought wasn't similar to you "stupid" and labeled them as a girl/woman, you should know you already lost your argument Present your opinion, but do not fall into the personal attack mode. Unfortunately you fell into that classless hole quite fast

Whatever that made you upset, whether it was you didn't have enough money to spend in this hobby like others, or that your mom/wife/girlfriend was bitching so much that you felt you have to pour your anger on others, deal with it and man up :biggrin:

digitalvideo

inspiredsports wrote: »

I'm not so sure about your "5 additional horsepower analogy". Maximum horsepower on shows up somewhere around WOT (wide open throttle). You don't have a clue it's there cruising at 65mph down the interstate.

My cables add the same improvement over a wide range of from ambient room db +1 to as loud as I'm willing to go during that listening session.

P.S.: debt and materialism? Back to that, eh?

Please seek help.

http://www.socialpacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/OCD.jpg