Power Cable Question

BlueFox wrote: »

That is interesting. Is there any data that "most professional recording mixers and engineers laugh when you mention spending over $100 bucks for a 4 to 5 foot long cable"? On the surface that statement would seem to not make any sense, but if true it would be useful to know.

This is quite well known in the pro audio world, in fact you can contact companies that help install and sell equipment and advise recording studios like IMS PRO A/V.

http://imsproav.com/

They also laugh at the fact that people buy those APC/Monster/Panamax/Tripp-lite power conditioners to protect electronics which basically just use a MOV which is the size of a tiny wish bone.

Some great affordable Mogami cables here:

http://www.smarter.com/studio-cables/mogami/pl--ch-33--ca-731--mf-32647.html

Mogami is made and hand assembled in Japan, not China

I'd like to know if AudioQuest and Transparent are made in the U.S. or China by Copartner which is the world's largest cable manufacturer who makes cables for many U.S. companies in the same Chinese factory. Copartner's cables are $2 to $4 bucks, they slap a Monster or Audioquest badge on it and sell it for $500 bucks or more.

BlueFox wrote:

Also, the statement "Audioquest and Transparent Cable are usually top sellers among middle class and upper middle class people to make them feel "eite"" sounds like a good case study for a business class. It seems like a successful marketing campaign. On the other hand, there appear to be a lot of good cables around to make someone feel elite, so why aren't they included. Anyway, if they also work, then so much the better. You get to be elite, and listen to good music. :cool:

Buy whatever makes "YOU" happy, that's your right, but the fact that people on here get so emotional and defensive when someone comes along and questions them and points out the fact that they are getting ripped off is quite laughable, I find it amusing. It's also my right to give my opinions and share what I have heard and learned too, if you can't take to debate that's your problem.

jinjuku started a thread on this forum about: "The $2200 HDMI cable @ BB" about AudioQuest selling a $2200 HDMI cable, the reviews under the comments section in the link were very funny as people were believing they saw or heard a difference with that cable, I'm reading the same style of comments here about power cords.

blueboxer wrote: »

THis argument reminds me of some of my coworkers who watched a racing documentary where some professional drivers and engineers swore that anything above 87 octane was a total waste for passenger cars. NOw, I am sure that to a point they were correct and that 87 would get everyone from point a to b just fine, but to say there is no benefit to a higher octane is not true, especially in high performance motors.

I am pretty sure those comments on the bb site were tongue in cheek and heavy on the sarcasm. LOl

I have to disagree with the analogy or comparison of octane fuels versus digital and analogue. That's not a good comparison.

But the point about high octane and also some racing fuels (I'm going off topic for a sec so beware) a high octane racing fuel can hurt performance of passenger cars and motorcycles, reduce horsepower and will eat away at a engine. You do NOT put VP Racing Fuels or Nutec into a car or motorcycle you buy off the show room floor. Unless you have a professional racing engine designed and built for a single race to go 100 to 500 miles and then rebuilt right after the race you don't benefit from higher octane fuels. In fact some of these racing series are using lower octane and more environmentally friendly fuels that have more incommon with the fuels we buy.

Ug.... double post again. I hate my phone.

So DV, what personal experience with cables do you have?

digitalvideo wrote: »

LOL @ someone taking this too personal and swearing who can't stand getting questioned, awwww another middle class guy who got ripped off spending too much money for a cable and thought in his head he saw or heard a slight difference sort of like people who buy HDMI wires in Best Buy and think the price of a Monster HDMI cable determines it's performance.

hmmmm now let's see, should I trust some regular average random blogger on which cables to buy who resorts to swearing when questioned about the cost/performance ratio of cables or the top performing muscians in pop, rock, classical, hip hop, Grammy nominated DJ's and mixing engineers in multi million dollar recording studios who perform in front of 100,000 people who use Mogami to give me a idea on the performance cost ratio of a wire? As Mogami is a bargain compared to most "high end" snake oil cables.

I'll be waiting for you to come make me the Gregmeister. LOL

I am responsible for recording over 50 Crosby, Stills & Nash shows every year. The band has told me to use the highest quality equipment available, which is why I choose Mogami for connecting all my recording gear. The multi-channel cables are simply the best (believe me I've tried them all). Their Platinum series cables are sonically superior to anything that I have heard.

- Michael Klvana, Live Recording Engineer for Crosby Still and Nash

I'm definitely happy to hear your CSN recording engineer source is wise enough to use after-market cabling. If he used what came in the box, you might have a valid point.

In order to aid the original poster, PrazVT, I still think I missed the cables you mentioned you have tried with your PS3.

You know, all else regarding the great cable debate aside, I find it hard to believe there would be a multi-billion dollar high-end cable industry if high-end cables provided the same objective (data) and subjective (art) performance as plain twisted copper or the stock cables gear comes with.
With that, I'm out....GO BEARS.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Power cords will NOT offer any picture quality of sound quality improvement unless the power cord is damaged. I've talked to engineers at SurgeX and on many other forum/websites this has been discussed and there is no performance improvement with a IEC Power Cord. Only replace power cords if they are damaged. It is just like the HDMI cable debate. Transparent Cable offers a $1000+ power cord which is like AudioQuest's $1000+ HDMI cable, it's a marketing scam.

I think that companies such as Transparent and AudioQuest expect consumers to have some sense and know that a $1000 power cord, like a $1000 handbag, is not for everyone. Transparent and AudioQuest are not promoting the idea that everyone needs a $1000 power cord just as Gucci is not promoting the idea that every woman needs a $1000 handbag. However, if a woman is in an occupation (wealth manager, executive, high political office) where she is expected to wear expensive clothes, jewelry and accessories, then the $1000 handbag is required for her, even though it has the same utility and capacity to hold items as a $10 handbag from Walmart.

If you see two or more members here extolling the benefits of $1000 power cords, they are not saying everyone should indulge in such. They are just discussing what worked for them.

If a consumer has invested in equipment that operates at a high level of signal purity and integrity, then cables which are technically capable of maintaining that signal purity and integrity are required.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Can you prove this with any testing results with numbers, I'd like to see it.

Sure. Do a search on "residential power line noise" and you will find some studies on the environmental and conducted noise filtering effects of high performance power cords.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Can you show which major recording/engineer studio, Hollywood studio, famous musicians use a $1000 dollar Transparent Audio power cable or any of their cables? Are they made in the U.S. or China?

Belden(R) Cable Chosen for Use at the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games:

http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-26-1999/0001059587&EDATE=

Mogami cables used by Warner Bros, Sony, Universal, world famous musicians:

http://www.mogamicable.com/additional/testimonials.php

Audioquest and Transparent Cable are usually top sellers among middle class and upper middle class people to make them feel "eite" when in fact most professional recording mixers and engineers laugh when you mention spending over $200 bucks for a 4 to 5 foot long cable.

In the working environment of professional recording mixers and engineers, I agree that high performance power cords have little or no value. Conversely, most consumers would laugh if you told them that they needed to invest in millions of dollars of playback equipment because only a multi-million dollar playback system will be able to faithfully replay a recording made in a multi-million dollar studio.

You should understand that there is a big difference between the technical requirements of a professional recording studio or professional broadcast setup and a home stereophonic audio system.

In the cases of the professional recording and broadcast studio, they are using equipment which is immediately next to the source being recorded and they are using equipment that runs in the hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars. Such equipment has optimally shielded power supplies and is optimized to produce ultra pure output signals in order to minimize the effects of signal degradation when successive generation copies are made.

In the case of a well designed recording or broadcast studio, much care has already been taken to eliminate the noise caused by 60 Hz mains power and by environmental RFI and EMI sources, as well as eliminate noise from acoustic and mechanical vibration sources. Therefore, in these professional environments, a high performance power cord would be of little to no value since their purpose is to assist in shielding against environmental noise and filtering conducted power line noise.

The situation in professional recording and broadcast studios is analogous to using a Brita water filter at a municipal water plant that produces pure, good tasting water. At the water plant, there is nothing for the Brita filter to trap since it is being used at the very source of pure water. Now, when we go 25 miles away to a consumer's home, the Brita filter may be useful in filtering contaminants that were picked up during the 25 mile trip.

digitalvideo wrote: »

LOL @ someone taking this too personal and swearing who can't stand getting questioned, awwww another middle class guy who got ripped off spending too much money for a cable and thought in his head he saw or heard a slight difference sort of like people who buy HDMI wires in Best Buy and think the price of a Monster HDMI cable determines it's performance.

hmmmm now let's see, should I trust some regular average random blogger on which cables to buy who resorts to swearing when questioned about the cost/performance ratio of cables or the top performing muscians in pop, rock, classical, hip hop, Grammy nominated DJ's and mixing engineers in multi million dollar recording studios who perform in front of 100,000 people who use Mogami to give me a idea on the performance cost ratio of a wire? As Mogami is a bargain compared to most "high end" snake oil cables.

Ideally, rather than what anyone on a forum or in a recording studio says, you should trust your ears. Depending on your ears and the electrical noise characteristics of your mains power and audio equipment, you may or may not hear a benefit with a high performance power cord. I don't know of any brick and mortar or Internet retailer who won't take product back if it does not work for the consumer.

Again, a $1000 power cord would be of little to no value in these professional audio environments since, as you have pointed out, multiple millions of dollars have already been spent on high performance equipment that would not benefit from such cords. Likewise, it would be wasteful for a municipal water plant to install high performance water filtration devices on their office water fountains since they are already at the source of pure water.

If you asked a water company engineer if they think using commercial water filters on their office water fountains is a good idea, what do you think they would say?

digitalvideo wrote: »

Mogami is made and hand assembled in Japan, not China

I'd like to know if AudioQuest and Transparent are made in the U.S. or China by Copartner which is the world's largest cable manufacturer who makes cables for many U.S. companies in the same Chinese factory. Copartner's cables are $2 to $4 bucks, they slap a Monster or Audioquest badge on it and sell it for $500 bucks or more.

You should understand that where something is made is not important. The important thing is who makes it. American, German and Japanese companies who use offshore manufacturing still use the same quality metrics they used when the merchandise was made in the US, Germany or Japan.

Polk Audio, PS Audio, Parasound and other audio companies who take advantage of lower Chinese labor rates all have qualification samples sent to them before they will allow full scale production to commence. In the case of Parasound and PS Audio, all product is shipped back to the US for inspection and packaging before being shipped to dealers. I don't know the details of Polk's manufacturing work flow. It is not like Polk, PS Audio and Parasound sign a manufacturing agreement with a Chinese factory and never again have any hands on contact with the products that bear their company names.

You should be aware of the fact that multiple lines of merchandise with varying levels of quality can be made in the same factory.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Buy whatever makes "YOU" happy, that's your right, but the fact that people on here get so emotional and defensive when someone comes along and questions them and points out the fact that they are getting ripped off is quite laughable, I find it amusing. It's also my right to give my opinions and share what I have heard and learned too, if you can't take to debate that's your problem.

Debate is always good. I have scientific quantitative measurement and sound electrical engineering theory to support my views. What similar evidence do you have?

digitalvideo wrote: »

jinjuku started a thread on this forum about: "The $2200 HDMI cable @ BB" about AudioQuest selling a $2200 HDMI cable, the reviews under the comments section in the link were very funny as people were believing they saw or heard a difference with that cable, I'm reading the same style of comments here about power cords.

I'm glad you brought up Jinjuku. Three weeks ago (12/24/10), I agreed to participate in a cable burn in test. I sent him my shipping information to ship the cables to me. I have not heard anything from him since then. Jinjuku's reticence is surprising in view of the fact that he went to other forums criticizing our forum members for being "afraid" to take his cable test.

Here is a link: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1486590&postcount=62

Here is another link: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1486875&postcount=67

If you run across Jinjuku, please tell him that I am still waiting on the Belden cables. Thank you for your assistance.

jinjuku wrote: »

You have to dig back a bit further to my original post. DK's latent response after I have already done forgot my original challenge about cable burn-in. His offer doesn't address the initial challenge. It is tantamount to a counter offer. That I have zero interest in.

It was an evaluation of 4 cables, two burned in and two not. With any ears on evaluation method.

Now for the more practical problem that is primarily a function of the passage of time and lack of materials.

My Statements build was after that and is currently in full swing. I have had the x-overs wired . I have been using the previously unused cables to connect the x-overs to my test baffle and speakers. So they are not unused at this point. Since I have been inside working on them they are driving my PSB Century 500i's when not on the test baffle. Have tunes will work.

The second problem is one of materials. I have qnty four runs of the Belden/GLS nanners. Not 6. Also I'm not burning in anything as requested nor cutting up cable. Not interested in counter offers (see below).

I put forward what I thought was a 'friendly' bet. Basically dinner out and some bragging rights. Why at that time 'confidences of faith' didn't prevail and someone take me up on that offer I can't say. It was a simple offer with low stakes that I even made accommodations of donation of $$ to charity and the cables auctioned off in traditional perfunctory 'karma' as is the norm here. That is as far of a mutation of the original offer I was willing to make to accommodate what was a good suggestion: Charity and Karma.

It still wasn't good enough. There is a saying you don't have to be tolerant of the intolerant. I don't have to be flexible with the in-flexible. There was all the time in the initial offering to make this happen. Too little too late.

It's all I have to say and see you in other threads (not sure what any of this has to do with power cables). Audio Adviser has a money back guarantee.

You are the ultimate flim flam man!!!! Holy crap you make more excuses than anyone I know. You are all over any cable thread, crapping, and issuing a challenge (more than once I might add) and now you don't have time or materials or even remember. Pathetic. Laughable. Unbelievable. Typical. Disgraceful.

H9

BlueFox wrote: »

But do the Mogami cables cost more than $100? :rolleyes:

Anyway, DV has put his foot in his mouth more than once in this thread with his statements of "facts" that make no sense. Let's hope he continues to make a fool of himself, since it is funny watching someone show, and try to defend, his ignorance.

Actually people like you who can barely afford your mortgage payments and health insurance and had to cut back in this economy and then spend thousands dollars on a power cable for some paranoid mental delusional reassurance of thinking you are getting the "best" picture quality when in fact you're not is quite laughable, but more seriously it's risky unless you are financially stable and even the financially stable (easily 6 figures) most likely are busy bodies and too busy working to play around all day.

Buy whatever makes "YOU" happy as I said as it's "YOUR" right to do so, I have a right to sit back and judge and see the money being thrown down the drain on materialistic things that make no difference in picture quality or one's life and then the same people sit back and say: "Man those health insurance companies are ripping me off, I'm having a hard time affording it, oh and those damn evil banks!"

But the great thing about the internet is everyone can be someone else, a expert in whatever is discussed, all over YouTube you got idiots who type comments under every video like they are the expert on the video being played, it could be a video of a $1 million dollar Ferrari that only 50 were made world wide and everyone under the video is posting comments like they're the most knowledgable, can tell you it's 0-60, how much HP it has, it's handling and suspension and this website is no different, which is mostly frauds, intellectually dishonest frauds who need a life.

I really hope no one gets their home foreclosed because of wrong priorities in life and not living within their means, I really mean that.

Hmm...

digitalvideo wrote: »

Actually people like you who can barely afford your mortgage payments and health insurance and had to cut back in this economy and then spend thousands dollars on a power cable for some paranoid mental delusional reassurance of thinking you are getting the "best" picture quality when in fact you're not is quite laughable, but more seriously it's risky unless you are financially stable and even the financially stable (easily 6 figures) most likely are busy bodies and too busy working to play around all day.

Buy whatever makes "YOU" happy as I said as it's "YOUR" right to do so, I have a right to sit back and judge and see the money being thrown down the drain on materialistic things that make no difference in picture quality or one's life and then the same people sit back and say: "Man those health insurance companies are ripping me off, I'm having a hard time affording it, oh and those damn evil banks!"

But the great thing about the internet is everyone can be someone else, a expert in whatever is discussed, all over YouTube you got idiots who type comments under every video like they are the expert on the video being played, it could be a video of a $1 million dollar Ferrari that only 50 were made world wide and everyone under the video is posting comments like they're the most knowledgable, can tell you it's 0-60, how much HP it has, it's handling and suspension and this website is no different, which is mostly frauds, intellectually dishonest frauds who need a life.

I really hope no one gets their home foreclosed because of wrong priorities in life and not living within their means, I really mean that.

I'm still having a hard time following how this strawman tirade about household finance and Internet commentary helps Praz with his stated goal of adding a power cable to his PS3..

This isn't YouTube, and the combined membership here at CP has actually tried thousands of different cables.

I've not seen a member here offer an opinion about a production run of 50 Ferrari's, but I have seen specific, sensible and affordable recommendations made to Praz about power cables they have personally used.

I have NOT seen you comment upon a specific cable that you personally auditioned and measured, yet you criticize those who, like yourself, post anonymously on the Internet.

As posted earlier, if you don't have a specific cable suggestion that you have tried for Praz, you are most welcome to start your own thread condemning cables, and to advance your theory that cables have a propensity to increase current household bankruptcy rates.

digitalvideo wrote: »

I can see I got DarqueKnight owned on this, ultra defensive about spending thousands on a power cord to make himself feel like one of those George Lucas types when George Lucas would most likely look at you like the sucker you are. By the way, I only read about half of your post, I just couldn't read anymore nonsense so you wasted your time typing all that for nothing.

Ohhhhh, I'm sure you read every word I wrote...multiple times. How do I know? You're the one who is obsessing over how other people spend their money. You also went out of your way to let me know that you aren't reading me, which really meas that you are reading me.

digitalvideo wrote: »

Another analogy that makes no sense, but if you want to compare a home owner using a $2000+ power cable to someone wearing a Gucci bag well go ahead. But I would say that most people including you couldn't tell the difference between a real Gucci bag or a knock-off and if you could well I'd like to know what type of guy you are lol But most those over priced clothes are made overseas in sweat shops any ways.

But if you want to use analogies out of left field ok, let's talk about wine, some of the most expensive wine in the world isn't even highly rated among Robert Parker and other supposed wine tasting experts and this is proven in back to back blind taste tests, so you're paying for a name to give you some psychological comfort.

For someone who wasn't reading me, you sure have a lot to say about what I wrote.

digitalvideo wrote: »

I'd also like to know where AudioQuest and Transparent cables are made and why are they sold for so much money?

Why don't you email AudioQuest and Transparent and ask them? Aren't they best qualified to answer your questions about cables you have admitted to not being able to afford now or ever? You do know how to use email don't you?

digitalvideo wrote: »

Is spending $2000 on a power cable that needs obsessed paranoid videophiles to analyze every little detail to see the slightest difference really worth it? No it's not,...

Is the $8,000 to $10,000 you squander each year on hookers, dope, cigarettes and liquor really worth it?

digitalvideo wrote: »

...but only to paranoid videophiles who analyze every little detail to see the slighest difference (if it even exists) need this extreme knowing they are getting the "best" when in fact price and cost doesn't equal "best"...and there are people who would say a $50 dollar cable gives a better PQ than a $2000 cable in a back to back test without knowing which cable is plugged into which tv.

It is very entertaining seeing you get all worked up about something that has no effect on your life whatsoever.

digitalvideo wrote: »

The ceo of SurgeX Michael McCook who also is on AVSForum who is a world renowned expert in surge divertion and surge protection who's products are used at the every pro sports stadium in the U.S. including the new Dallas Cowboys Stadium, Carnegie Hall, NASA, govt buildings, Hollywood production studios refers to those power cords as "mars dust" and if you call them up they'd like to see some tests done to back up the claims of these thousand dollar power cords but the middle class home theater guys like you seem to fall for the marketing hype of companies like Transparent and other snake oil scams, but the joke is on you.

Again, why do you care? Are you jealous? Do you have cable envy?

digitalvideo wrote: »

If any of you want you can come over my house and plug your power cords into my Pioneer Kuro plasma and we can do some back to back testing, let the family and neighbors judge to see if they can see a difference. :biggrin:

Why do we need to come to your house to prove anything to you? Can't you try a cable all by yourself and know whether it provides improvement or not? Are you that mentally and technically incompetant?

digitalvideo wrote: »

Actually people like you who can barely afford your mortgage payments and health insurance and had to cut back in this economy and then spend thousands dollars on a power cable for some paranoid mental delusional reassurance of thinking you are getting the "best" picture quality when in fact you're not is quite laughable, but more seriously it's risky unless you are financially stable and even the financially stable (easily 6 figures) most likely are busy bodies and too busy working to play around all day.

Let me make sure I have this straight: I, and everyone else who bought an expensive power cable did so by diverting money from necessities like mortgage payments and health insurance...right? I'll admit to spending my children's inheiritance on audio toys, but mortgage and health insurance money? Never!!

digitalvideo wrote: »

Buy whatever makes "YOU" happy as I said as it's "YOUR" right to do so, I have a right to sit back and judge and see the money being thrown down the drain on materialistic things that make no difference in picture quality or one's life and then the same people sit back and say: "Man those health insurance companies are ripping me off, I'm having a hard time affording it, oh and those damn evil banks!"

Name one person here who has purchased an expensive power cable and then complained about not being able to meet their financial obligations.

digitalvideo wrote: »

I really hope no one gets their home foreclosed because of wrong priorities in life and not living within their means, I really mean that.

Thanks for your concern. You can't possibly have access to our forum member's financial documents to know if we are living above our means, therefore you must be projecting your own financial limitations and struggles on the membership.

digitalvideo wrote: »

I won't be visiting this website for about a week since I'll be out of town but I hope all of you respond back to every little word and obsess especially the "Dark Knight!" who can dissect my posts (which I won't read) lol Have at it ladies.

I realize now that my comments deeply hurt you, otherwise you would not be fantasizing and rationalizing about my financial status and continually going out of your way to emphasize that you won't be reading me any more. Further, why do you need to announce your out of town trip, as if being out of town means you won't be at the closest public library reading us?

Moreover and more telling, why be here at all if the leisure purchases of our membership cause you such anguish?

digitalvideo wrote: »

My job here is done. :biggrin::cool:

You have a "job" here? You're on some type of "mission"? Wowwww. How important you are.:rolleyes:

By the way, we have a support group for people like you who are get acid reflux about what *I* do with my discretionary cash. Enjoy your membership: DK Culture Club