Modify Oppo-83 or get a DAC?

Erik Tracy
Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
edited April 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
I'm considering 'upgrading' my standard Oppo-83 for better two channel performance.

Option 1:
Send it off for the "SE" modification

Option 2:
Buy an external DAC from audiogon
(been looking at the Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto DAC2, and the PS Audio diii)

Has anyone else considered this?

I'm thinking that a good deal on a used external DAC will give the better results.

H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
Post edited by Erik Tracy on
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Comments

  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited April 2010
    Having a couple modded CDPs, I'd say go for the Oppo. Doubling the internal DAC or replacing it with a better DAC, IMO, made it more effective.

    I am waiting in line for a Modwright Oppo mod, hopefully I'll have one by the end of the month.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited April 2010
    I like option 1, go check out all they do on the upgrade.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    Now that would be an interesting 'shootout'... [hint hint]

    Take an Oppo83SE and an external DAC and with the same unit hooked up to a good integrated (or separates) - do a real time A/B to the SE modded sound vs a good external DAC.

    My gut says a good used DAC would in the same price range as the mod would give the better results.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited April 2010
    If I was going to spend money on the Oppo, I would just commit to it and send to Modwright.
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited April 2010
    I've been hashing over the same thought myself. But I'm going to hold off until the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 & DAC 2 are released (4/9 I believe for the 1 & another week behind is the 2). From what I've read the ESS DAC that they use is a step up from the modded Oppo. I'll wait for some reviews to start rolling in before I make up my mind. EJ & Cullen know a thing or two about how to deliver exceptional products.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited April 2010
    I was looking at the PS Audio diii dac. I also heard good things about the stage III mod that Cullen does to upgrade the PS Audio dac. I wonder how the new Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 will stack up against the PS Audio modded dac? They are fairly close in price. I'll also wait for the reviews.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2010
    http://audioaficionado.org/general-audio-discussion/2991-oppo-bdp-83se-versus-mcintosh-mcd500.html
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited April 2010
    polkatese wrote: »
    Having a couple modded CDPs, I'd say go for the Oppo. Doubling the internal DAC or replacing it with a better DAC, IMO, made it more effective.

    I am waiting in line for a Modwright Oppo mod, hopefully I'll have one by the end of the month.

    I can't wait to hear what you think of the ModWright upgrade.

    The SE upgrade was a marked improvement. Much better 2ch analog sound. I am very pleased with mine. Erik... try the SE upgrade and give it a several hours of burn in. After approx 50 hrs mine got smooth and silky.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited April 2010
    I know Dan Wright has a great reputation, so I went in blind and hope for the best, given my experience of modded CDPs from other reputable modders. So, we'll see what Dan can do. Mind you that I have no direct experience with stock Oppo. Here is what Dan will do to the Oppo:

    Oppo BDP-83 MOD DETAILS:

    Full Multi-Channel Mod with Master Clock upgrade:


    •Upgrade of stock power supplies.


    •Burson Clock upgrade!


    •Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.


    •Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub (SW) out.


    •Damping mods to chassis and drive.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    polkatese wrote: »
    I know Dan Wright has a great reputation, so I went in blind and hope for the best, given my experience of modded CDPs from other reputable modders. So, we'll see what Dan can do. Mind you that I have no direct experience with stock Oppo. Here is what Dan will do to the Oppo:

    Oppo BDP-83 MOD DETAILS:

    Full Multi-Channel Mod with Master Clock upgrade:


    •Upgrade of stock power supplies.


    •Burson Clock upgrade!


    •Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.


    •Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub (SW) out.


    •Damping mods to chassis and drive.



    I've read some very good 'buzz' on the mods - but my emphasis is on 2-channel improvements. I see that part of the 83 upgrade is *nine* analog channels - hence my comment that for the same budget, an external *2* channel DAC might eek out a bit more performance.

    I'm not in a hurry - maybe there will be some shootout comparisons later... ;)

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited April 2010
    I'll be following this thread with much interest. Whenever I'm ready for my next source upgrade, I'll be making the same decision.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
    Marantz UD5005 universal player
    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
    Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
    PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    I'm a bit confused on the Oppo-83 upgrades.

    The Modwright website sounds like it offers an 'upgrade' to the SE - which I thought was already upgraded by NuForce?


    So, who does the "SE"? Modwright or NuForce? And is there an upgrade to the upgrade????:confused:

    And I don't see any offers to send in my existing 83 for upgrades, just a tradein credit towards a 'new' upgraded unit.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited April 2010
    NuForce does all of the "SE" upgrades for Oppo.

    NuForce offers their own upgrade from the SE to the SE-NuForce edition which takes the SE upgrade a step further.

    The ModWright upgrade takes an SE you send them and mods it with all of their own stuff.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    vc69 wrote: »
    NuForce does all of the "SE" upgrades for Oppo.

    NuForce offers their own upgrade from the SE to the SE-NuForce edition which takes the SE upgrade a step further.

    The ModWright upgrade takes an SE you send them and mods it with all of their own stuff.

    I'm all about 'hop ups' - coming from the dirt bike world.

    I had a brand new Honda XR250 fourstroke enduro that I continually upgraded until I had one of THE trickest fourstrokes at the time (bored 280, cam polishing, custom exhaust, upside down forks when they were new, custom rear shock, sprockets, chain, handlebars, modified ignition, etc).

    It was REAL trick, but admittedly, for all the money I spent I could have gotten a true motocross bike.

    Kinda sounds the same here for an upgraded Oppo-83 to an SE that is then 'upgraded'.... money better spent on world killer DAC and be done with it?

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited April 2010
    yep, vc69 is right.

    here is a quote from Dan on Modwright SE upgrade:

    Re: ModWright Modified Oppo BDP-83!
    « Reply #129 on: 8 Dec 2009, 01:54 AM »
    I will post feedback from our customers here once I compile some more. It is very busy around here.

    The SE mods are the same price - for now - as for the non-SE and the same options are available. For now we are still installing the Burson clock as the clock for the DAC is still derived from this clock. The DAC also has a small crystal (clock) RIGHT near the DAC chip (2CH DAC).

    The SE sounds exceptional, as does the non-SE and I would GLADLY compare our modified SE - even 2CH only - to the Nuforce mod. What we are doing is simply different. No disrespect to Nuforce or what they are doing. We are not just replacing components. We are REDESIGNING the analog stage and the different is HUGE.

    Thanks,

    Dan W.


    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68675.120
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited April 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Kinda sounds the same here for an upgraded Oppo-83 to an SE that is then 'upgraded'.... money better spent on world killer DAC and be done with it?

    If I was to go that route, I would consider a really good transport as well. The -83SE I have is great, I love it. It's an all_in_one solution for me. But if I was feeding a killer DAC, I'd want a "world killer" transport mechanism. Believe me Erik, if you just want to step up, the SE is worth the money. If you are hunting giants, look elsewhere.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    polkatese wrote: »
    yep, vc69 is right.

    here is a quote from Dan on Modwright SE upgrade:

    [/B]

    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68675.120

    So from the modwright webpage it sounds like the upgrades of either a standard 83 or an SE is the same: $1295 for the multichannel mod (on either the standard or SE) and $950 for the stereo only mode (on either the standard or SE).

    Seems like a waste of money to have bought an SE and then do the modwright upgrade if the end result of either a standard or SE is at the same point.

    And for $950 - there are some *killer* used DACs on audiogon....just stirring the pot....:p

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited April 2010
    Well, the standard 83 uses Cirrus Logic DACs. The SE uses ESS Sabre 32bit DAC's. If you modded the standard -83 you would be missing out on what I believe to be superior DAC technology.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    vc69 wrote: »
    Well, the standard 83 uses Cirrus Logic DACs. The SE uses ESS Sabre 32bit DAC's. If you modded the standard -83 you would be missing out on what I believe to be superior DAC technology.

    Ah...missed that...so the modwright upgrade "Upgrade of Stereo Left and Right analog channels only with our discrete FET-based circuit" does not include the Sabre DACs?

    In that case, that means paying $899 for an SE then another $950 for the modwright upgrade.

    So the delta for a 2-channel SE modwright would be $400+$950=$1350

    Man - now you're getting into some serious used external DACs....

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited April 2010
    Erik, agreed on your point: 83SE to Modwright to be less benefit.

    on your next point, if your goal is strictly 2 channels, I think the question become a question of "implementation" and the synergy of the whole upgrade beyond DAC, such as upgraded PS (just using it as an example).

    I have a Pioneer DV-563 Universal that was modded for 2 channels. I am pretty confident that adding an external DAC to it would not give me the same SQ result as what I have now. As always, YMMV and more importantly, what your ears and pocket would appreciate more.. :p
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited April 2010
    I am pretty sure that I will eventually do the 2ch ModWright upgrade. I am that pleased with this player. It really is a nice piece. External DAC's are all the rage, I know. But these Sabre DAC's are state of the art. Just saying.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    vc69 wrote: »
    I am pretty sure that I will eventually do the 2ch ModWright upgrade. I am that pleased with this player. It really is a nice piece. External DAC's are all the rage, I know. But these Sabre DAC's are state of the art. Just saying.

    I appreciate the inputs - hey I love my 83 as well!

    I want to 'downsize' on the number of devices and gizmos in my rig. Having the 83 and a dedicated CDP seems like there are opportunties to consolidate.

    That's why I started this thread...but it sounds like for me to get the SE, I have to 'trade in' my standard 83 and take the 'hit'.

    Or, maybe get the modwright 2-channel upgrade to my standard 83.

    So...another question...how would an SE stack up against a standard 83 w/ the modwright 2-channel upgrade? :D

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited April 2010
    There are a lot of good DAC's out there for that money. I would consider a used Dac for the same cost the best "Deal" when it comes to money spent. Lets face it, electronics are worth about 50% of list when re-sold. The payback on the mod will be about $500 whereas the payback on the used DAC will be aout $950, or about as much as you paid.

    Sound quality wise I'm not sure, it could go either way. I'd probably put my marbles towards the DAC. Tough question!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited April 2010
    An external DAC would far out last a Disc transport mechanism; I'd get the standard Oppo and an external DAC. Just my 2 cents

    If you're looking for a used Benchmark, get the USB model for its upgraded opamps.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • venomclan
    venomclan Posts: 2,467
    edited April 2010
    I wonder how the Oppo SE stands up against the Sony 5400ES.

    The Oppo seems like a killer deal, but I agree with Steve, an external DAC would outlast a transport, mechanically and through upgrade cycles. The Dac would also allow use of a music server if you go that route.
    Venom
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited April 2010
    I was able to sell off all the DAC's I had when I got a nice source player. When I used a lesser source the DAC was a requirement.

    RT1
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited April 2010
    Who here buys anything with the intent on keeping it for the long term :)

    Get the player now and then get a dac later or vice versa. It's never either or just a matter of when it's time for the "either" or the "or".
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    phipiper10 wrote: »
    Who here buys anything with the intent on keeping it for the long term :)

    Get the player now and then get a dac later or vice versa. It's never either or just a matter of when it's time for the "either" or the "or".

    Well there is some truth to that...and...I'm such a ****....I bid/won on a Bel Canto DAC-2....more later.... :p

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited April 2010
    you beeeeatch have fun with it.

    RT1
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited April 2010
    The Bel Canto is a nice unit. Good score.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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