Modify Oppo-83 or get a DAC?

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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    The Bel Canto is a nice unit. Good score.

    Yeah, did some research on it - seems like it has a good rep.

    When I get it in - I plan on doing my own 'shootout':
    * Cambridge 640c v2 vs Oppo-83 with DAC

    I've already done the 640c v2 vs the standard Oppo-83 via analog outs on both - the 640c v2 wins for better dynamics and detail (that does not equate to 'brightness' rather more 'revealing' musical subtleties).

    I can even do the 640c v2 vs Oppo-83 as transports with the pushbuttom feature on the Bel Canto DAC-2 for two different inputs.

    But, I want to see/hear for myself if the Bel Canto can leap the Oppo-83 ahead of the 640c v2 - then I can downsize my system.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    UPS just dropped off my Bel Canto DAC-2....let the death match begin! :D

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited April 2010
    Look forward to hearing the results.
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    Ok....some very initial listening results.

    The Oppo via the Bel Canto DAC-2 now has the 'edge' SQ-wise over my Cambridge Audio 640c V2.

    I played 2 identical copies of the CD of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" - manually sync'd at the same time. I like this CD because the mix is very clean and the sound is layered and spacious - great for A/B comparisons for sound staging, detail, pushing in and out of the sound layers.

    Before, comparing the CDP and the BPD - the Cambridge CDP definitely had the better SQ: more detail and dispersion (NOT 'brighter'), more depth to the soundstage. The Oppo by itself seemed a bit dull with a 'flatter' soundstage front to back.

    With the DAC-2 the Oppo is now just as detailed, just as good sound stage depth with a tad more focus (the instrument placement 'floats' better in front of the listening spot). The Oppo/Bel Canto combo is not as 'analytic' as the Cambridge - meaning it has a subtle warmer sound on the high end. The detail and openess is still there - just not as prominent.

    More later....

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Bernal
    Bernal Posts: 991
    edited April 2010
    Face wrote: »
    http://audioaficionado.org/general-audio-discussion/2991-oppo-bdp-83se-versus-mcintosh-mcd500.html

    Thanks for the thorough review. Very informative.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    Bernal wrote: »
    Thanks for the thorough review. Very informative.

    I'm confused...are you thanking Face for his review...or mine?

    Or is this another Oppo applause? :p

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited April 2010
    Nice Erik...! (I meant for your new DAC)...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    polkatese wrote: »
    Nice Erik...! (I meant for your new DAC)...

    I'm liking the 'synergy'...the Oppo w/ the DAC is more....engaging....as far as the CD listening experience.....I'd liken it to a sweet, deep, complex wine.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • virtualdean
    virtualdean Posts: 286
    edited April 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I'm considering 'upgrading' my standard Oppo-83 for better two channel performance.

    Option 1:
    Send it off for the "SE" modification

    Option 2:
    Buy an external DAC from audiogon
    (been looking at the Benchmark DAC1, Bel Canto DAC2, and the PS Audio diii)
    Has anyone else considered this?I'm thinking that a good deal on a used external DAC will give the better results.
    i just bought an bdp-83se. I do believe that Oppo will let you trade your old one in on a 83se..
    I hope so.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Ok....some very initial listening results.

    The Oppo via the Bel Canto DAC-2 now has the 'edge' SQ-wise over my Cambridge Audio 640c V2.

    I played 2 identical copies of the CD of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" - manually sync'd at the same time. I like this CD because the mix is very clean and the sound is layered and spacious - great for A/B comparisons for sound staging, detail, pushing in and out of the sound layers.

    Before, comparing the CDP and the BPD - the Cambridge CDP definitely had the better SQ: more detail and dispersion (NOT 'brighter'), more depth to the soundstage. The Oppo by itself seemed a bit dull with a 'flatter' soundstage front to back.

    With the DAC-2 the Oppo is now just as detailed, just as good sound stage depth with a tad more focus (the instrument placement 'floats' better in front of the listening spot). The Oppo/Bel Canto combo is not as 'analytic' as the Cambridge - meaning it has a subtle warmer sound on the high end. The detail and openess is still there - just not as prominent.

    More later....

    Well - I'm a dolt.

    I had the inputs mixed up when doing my listening yesterday and was making backwards observations.....

    Anyway....

    First more description of the comparison setup:

    1)Oppo BDP-83 via Signal Audio Digital Coax to the Bel Canto then AQ King Cobras to my Musical Fidelity A5 as my integrated amp.

    2)Cambridge Audio 640c V2 CDP via AQ King Cobras (yes I have two sets) to my A5.

    Loaded indentical CDs of Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" into both players then manually sync'd them together.

    I then did my best to 'level' match the two players via the Oppo remote - which has a volume control for the outputs.

    For those that claim DACs and CDPs sound the same....get some q-tips and clean the wax out - they do. :D

    The Oppo/Bel Canto combo had a different sound signature than just the CA CDP. The soundstage was more focused centrally, but did, imo - sound a bit 'forward'. Very clean, very precise sound - great detail.

    The CA CDP painted a soundstage a bit more 'spacious' and was, in comparison, well...laid back on the high end.

    And I will qualify that these are very minor differences - not night and day but gradations of subtlety.

    I'd liken the sound differences to being in different music venues with different acoustics:
    the Oppo/Bel Canto - an intimate cafe with a small stage
    the CA CDP - a small music hall with a bigger stage

    Another difference is in the bottom end. The Cambridge CDP has more low end grunt than the Bel Canto.

    Some may say that means 'bloated' - I'm not entirely sure. But its a real sonic difference.

    Then for giggles and grins - to see if the difference were due to the 'transport', I hooked up the Bel Canto to the CA CDP but left the analog outputs still hooked up so that the CDP was outputting out of both the Coax and RCA/Analog outputs. Then I was able to switch sources at the A5 to do A/B comparisons in real time.

    Same observations - so I confirmed that the differences were due to the differences in the CDP DAC-analog outputs and the Bel Canto DAC.

    I will have to hand it to Cambridge Audio - the 640c V2 is a very good CDP offering some very good analog circuits when compared to a +$1K (new) dedicated external DAC.

    It really does come down personal preferences - some may prefer the sound of the Bel Canto. I will probably hang on to this...do more listening.

    But for now, my dedicated CDP stays for 2-channel.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • phipiper10
    phipiper10 Posts: 955
    edited April 2010
    Sorry Erik, you lost me with regards to if you preferred the CA with or without the Bel Canto DAC connected.

    And when you added the DAC to the CA did it then sounds like the Oppo with the DAC on it?

    Thanks for clarifying, really curious about your findings.

    Rich
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2010
    phipiper10 wrote: »
    Sorry Erik, you lost me with regards to if you preferred the CA with or without the Bel Canto DAC connected.

    And when you added the DAC to the CA did it then sounds like the Oppo with the DAC on it?

    Thanks for clarifying, really curious about your findings.

    Rich

    Sorry - I 'lost' myself too that first go round where I had my interconnects mixed up so when I thought I was listening to the Bel Canto DAC, I was still really listening to the Cambridge CDP.

    I'm going to leave the DAC hooked up the Cambridge via Coax so that I can flip back and forth between the CDP analog outs and the DAC across various music sources. I need to spend more time with the DAC just to get a larger sampling of music.

    But - after yesterday - I still prefer the Cambridge. Not because of any 'brigthness' or 'detail' but rather it has a slightly more expansive sound stage and more balance on the low end. The Bel Canto's sound stage is more of a 'beam' to the sweet spot and centralized w/ a slightly lighter bottom end.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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