HBOs Boardwalk Empire!

ballen823

DMara wrote: »

I didn't say "crying out loud", did I? Capone & Luciano were portrayed too softly, sometimes just like pussies with no brain, not up to the super-mob-boss standard at all (you'll see how Luciano "cried" to Darmody's mom and Capone "cried" about his son's deafness as well as Darmody's making fun of him in front of his men in last night's episode; Luciano also answered Rothstein's phone call in such a dumb and dumber manner, got trapped in Nucky & his brother's dark room big time, and to think here's the big guy who would control the whole gang even from jail - from far far away Italy - from sneaky Cuba - all the way until his natural death). In my mind, they would have been more ruthless and especially much more intelligent & manipulative to later be labeled the two most notorious gangsters of all times in our country; they were to become the leaders of almost the whole US mafia clan, for crying out loud

They're up-and-comers. Capone can't be more than 20 years old, and Luciano may be pushing 25. This is basically where it all starts for them - they got some growing up to do. At least this is how I've seen it, which had led to my enjoyment of the series.

bobman1235

DMara wrote: »

I didn't say "crying out loud", did I? Capone & Luciano were portrayed too softly, sometimes just like pussies with no brain, not up to the super-mob-boss standard at all (you'll see how Luciano "cried" to Darmody's mom and Capone "cried" about his son's deafness as well as Darmody's making fun of him in front of his men in last night's episode; Luciano also answered Rothstein's phone call in such a dumb and dumber manner, got trapped in Nucky & his brother's dark room big time, and to think here's the big guy who would control the whole gang even from jail - from far far away Italy - from sneaky Cuba - all the way until his natural death). In my mind, they would have been more ruthless and especially much more intelligent & manipulative to later be labeled the two most notorious gangsters of all times in our country; they were to become the leaders of almost the whole US mafia clan, for crying out loud

So you're upset that they're real characters with a little bit of depth rather than cartoon character sociopaths? Yeah, I count that as a plus, not a minus. And like someone above said, they're still essentially kids.

Besides, if Lucciano didn't cry when the doc stuck that thing in his ****, he's pretty badass to me.

DMara

bklynNupe wrote: »

I couldn’t disagree more, I don’t think many Soaps have this kind of detail and I’m not sure what you are talking about in regards to “the stage is quite limited?”

ballen823 wrote: »

They're up-and-comers. Capone can't be more than 20 years old, and Luciano may be pushing 25. This is basically where it all starts for them - they got some growing up to do. At least this is how I've seen it, which had led to my enjoyment of the series.

bobman1235 wrote: »

So you're upset that they're real characters with a little bit of depth rather than cartoon character sociopaths? Yeah, I count that as a plus, not a minus. And like someone above said, they're still essentially kids.

Besides, if Lucciano didn't cry when the doc stuck that thing in his ****, he's pretty badass to me.

I'm glad to hear plenty other opinions. It's fun to have a conversation in this manner, without those attacking-the-character sarcastic comments that have happened rampantly lately in other threads.
@ bklynNupe: what I meant in saying "the stage is quite limited" was I was already sick and tired of too many of the same cheap viewing of the waterfront boardwark.
@ ballen823 & bobman1235: to me, such notorious leaders of tough men wouldn't be that weak and dumb especially at that 20ish young age when they are setting examples to build up their gangs. Respect is what they yearn for, not kitty soft love.

bobman1235

DMara wrote: »

@ ballen823 & bobman1235: to me, such notorious leaders of tough men wouldn't be that weak and dumb especially at that 20ish young age when they are setting examples to build up their gangs. Respect is what they yearn for, not kitty soft love.

Again, I have to believe you're kind of brainwashed a little bit by movies / TV shows that portray people so one dimensionally. People don't get to be crazy psychopaths just because they're strong and driven, they get that way because they're extremely damaged and unstable people.

Most of the scenes / scenarios you're talking about were private moments (certainly the one between Luciano and Gretchen Mol's character was), not something "the boys" would see, an dI can completely believe that a hardass criminal might have a soft side when it came to the ladies (and then turn into a raging psycho that beats her the next minute, but that's beside the point).

ballen823

DMara wrote: »

@ ballen823 & bobman1235: to me, such notorious leaders of tough men wouldn't be that weak and dumb especially at that 20ish young age when they are setting examples to build up their gangs. Respect is what they yearn for, not kitty soft love.

I guess I still disagree about them being weak, and yearning for 'kitty soft love'. I only recall two instances where they came off vulnerable - Luciano with Dormandy's mother and Capone with Jimmy, both I felt were well represented.

Luciano - if I had a broken unit and it started working again, I think I'd be crying in joy. Can't blame him for the what he did or how he was treated by Nucky and Eli considering he's basically down in AC by himself. Almost commend him for not doing anything stupid after Eli lets go of him. Seems he almost gains some respect for Nucky after the incident too (in an intelligent sort of way).

Capone - Again, can't blame him for crying about his deaf son, especially since he blames it on himself. I think Capone looks up to Jimmy, especially his intelligence, and when Jimmy jabs back at him (especially about the 'war' wound), he finally realizes Jimmy isn't one of his henchmen that he can push around.

I guess my point is the only people that could have lost any respect for Lucky or Al would have been Jimmy or his mother. In Al's case, I think he gained respect from Jimmy. In Lucky's case, it really didn't matter (not his town and the mother is a burlesque dancer).

Even the worst characters in society are vulnerable at some point.

bsoko2

bklynNupe wrote: »

I think its great storytelling as usual for HBO.
For me, Fisticuffs every week are not necessary if it doesn’t add anything to the story. What I appreciate about this series is the great detail given to the culture of this period.
Someone getting shanked or popped is just an added attraction

Agree, and that is what makes this a good series.

Jstas

ballen823 wrote: »

They're up-and-comers. Capone can't be more than 20 years old, and Luciano may be pushing 25. This is basically where it all starts for them - they got some growing up to do. At least this is how I've seen it, which had led to my enjoyment of the series.

Those are my thoughts as well. Even the creator of the series said to not expect the hardcore gangsters of Capone and Luciano. They are still young here and have yet to rise to any level of prominence.

hearingimpared

Capones mentors were Frankie Yale and Johnny Torrio. Luciano's mentor was Arnold Rothstein. These two guys just didn't learn their trade from birth. They were coached and mentored. This series shows the two in their early stages so of course you are going to see some non-sociopath behavior such as crying or feeling emotional. I think as the series progresses, you will see them become more and more like they really became.

Jstas

OK, that episode last night with the sniper was...whoa. I kinda knew what was gonna happen when they were sitting in the **** house, just wasn't sure who. Then they panned back to the guy in the greasy spoon and I was like "Oh, it's on!" I didn't think the sniper dude would come back in to the story so quickly. I thought he'd be used later on in the story. He may still be in future episodes. But as soon as Darmody said he wasn't going to kill the guy, I knew he was setting up a hit. Thought it was going to be later but then he patted him on the shoulder 3 times. I told teh GF "He's dead in less than 30 seconds." Then the pitcher broke.

Yeah, I'm likin' this series!

bklynNupe

DMara wrote: »

@ bklynNupe: what I meant in saying "the stage is quite limited" was I was already sick and tired of too many of the same cheap viewing of the waterfront boardwark.
QUOTE]

Taken from Wikipedia

“The series was filmed on a specially created set in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Interior scenes from the premiere episode were filmed in Reid Hall at Manhattanville College.

The Greenpoint set, which featured a 300-foot"period-perfect rendition" of Atlantic City in the early 1920s, took three months to build. Alone, the set included depictions of storefronts, cars and the boardwalk itself; Brooklyn-based digital effects studio Brainstorm Digital used 3D models after filming to add details like skylines, billboards, piers and beaches, whose looks, Brainstorm artist Chris Wesselman said, were based on vintage postcards.
Production for the series's 80-minute pilot cost $18 million. Industry insiders have estimated costs for the entire first season of "Boardwalk Empire" to range upwards of $65 million.


Maybe you’re right, but have you been to AC? Asides from the Casinos, there is not much there today considering the millions of people that pour into this destination annually. It’s a bit sparse compared to other cities of this capacity, imo.

Jstas

bklynNupe wrote: »

DMara wrote: »

@ bklynNupe: what I meant in saying "the stage is quite limited" was I was already sick and tired of too many of the same cheap viewing of the waterfront boardwark.

Taken from Wikipedia

“The series was filmed on a specially created set in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Interior scenes from the premiere episode were filmed in Reid Hall at Manhattanville College.

The Greenpoint set, which featured a 300-foot"period-perfect rendition" of Atlantic City in the early 1920s, took three months to build. Alone, the set included depictions of storefronts, cars and the boardwalk itself; Brooklyn-based digital effects studio Brainstorm Digital used 3D models after filming to add details like skylines, billboards, piers and beaches, whose looks, Brainstorm artist Chris Wesselman said, were based on vintage postcards.
Production for the series's 80-minute pilot cost $18 million. Industry insiders have estimated costs for the entire first season of "Boardwalk Empire" to range upwards of $65 million.


Maybe you’re right, but have you been to AC? Asides from the Casinos, there is not much there today considering the millions of people that pour into this destination annually. It’s a bit sparse compared to other cities of this capacity, imo.

Bit sparse? What are you talking about? The city is packed and on most weekends, throughout the year, the population can double overnight. The city isn't that big either. It's situated on an island in which the western 1/2 of the island is unuseable, protected wetland and coastal marsh. The city is only 17.5 square miles or so. The boardwalk is about 5 miles long and Atlantic Avenue stretches in to Ventnor and when you get to the southern side of the city, it's loaded with rental houses, hotels and bed & breakfasts. It's a resort town and with a resident population of less than 40K people, how frickin' big do you want it to be? The entire surrounding area is less than 320,000 people in population.

As far as not much there...when was the last time YOU were there? There are casinos, restaurants, all manner of stores from high end retailers to a WAL*MART. There's golf courses, theaters, bars, nightclubs, the convention centers, amusement parks, that 5 miles of boardwalk and, of course, the beach and all that comes with it from surfing lessons to buggy rentals. Many of the historic buildings are still around as well. Not to mention all the stuff you can do from guided tours of historic places including getting out to the main land for some of the oldest settlements in the country. There's whale watching tours, canoe, boat and jetski rentals, fishing charters, helicopter and plane charters, exotic car rentals, any number of shows, games and restaurants to go to from some of the biggest names in the culinary world. You can attend any number of concerts from small jazz clubs to massive arenas. There's even a paintball club with an indoor arena and an outdoor field! There's campgrounds with open sites or RV/trailer rentals too. For a city of roughly 40K residents, it's a pretty happening place.

I mean, look at it!



How can you say there's "nothing there"?

bklynNupe

Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer, when I said “aside from the casinos,” this was really meant to be a catch-all phrase for the tourism industry.
I was speaking about residents of AC. From the show’s perspective we focus mainly on the residents. I guess in this case sparse is very relative, and I have taken the liberty to use the term loosely. I hope I didn’t offend any polkies down the turnpike. My work, school and home are in very densely populated neighborhoods, this was my reference. Your point is taken.

Just for comparison sake,

Atlantic City – 17 square miles
Population density - 3,570 people per square mile

Coney Island (which is actually a peninsula) – 0.905 square miles
Population density – 31, 185 people per square mile


Nice aerial view of AC by the way.

Jstas

bklynNupe wrote: »

Perhaps I should have been a bit clearer, when I said “aside from the casinos,” this was really meant to be a catch-all phrase for the tourism industry.
I was speaking about residents of AC. From the show’s perspective we focus mainly on the residents. I guess in this case sparse is very relative, and I have taken the liberty to use the term loosely. I hope I didn’t offend any polkies down the turnpike. My work, school and home are in very densely populated neighborhoods, this was my reference. Your point is taken.

Just for comparison sake,

Atlantic City – 17 square miles
Population density - 3,570 people per square mile

Coney Island (which is actually a peninsula) – 0.905 square miles
Population density – 31, 185 people per square mile


Nice aerial view of AC by the way.

You can't compare the AC of the 20's-40's to the AC of now. Population back then was double what it is now and the size of the city was half of what it is now. It was also, much, much different. Prohibition turned it in to the city it is now. Before that, it was a resort town for vacationers as well as a port town for fishing and struggled until the late 1800's when as many as 500,000 rail passengers a year showed up to vacation. Nowadays, they measure visitors in the millions.

It was "Nucky" Johnson (who "Nucky" Thompson from the HBO show is modeled after) who brought the convention economy to AC year round with the lackadaisical enforcement of Prohibition laws. That forever changed AC. While it's touted as The Vegas of The East, it's still very much based on large scale convention business and summer vacationers. But casinos weren't legal until 1976. Before that, the gambling took place illegally in back rooms at hotels while law enforcement turned a blind eye while on hoteliers' payrolls.

Coney Island is actually part of NYC. It's the southern most part of Brooklyn. It's smack in the middle of the 5 boroughs. Of course it's going to be more densely populated.

AC stands on it's own. It shares Absecon Island with Ventnor, Margate and Longport to the south which are bedroom communities of rental houses and small hotels and more recently condo complexes. To the north is Brigantine Island where Brigantine is another bedroom community. Two different worlds, two different purposes. Apples to oranges.

And Coney Island was an island when it got it's name. It was named in like 1640 I think it was? Just after the Dutch bought Manhattan. It was referenced as "Coney Island" on a map for New Netherland. "Coney" is a Dutch word for rabbit and up until the resort was built and destroyed the habitat, Coney Island was full of rabbits and known for it's sport hunting of said animals. There was a show on PBS about the history of Coney Island in Summer of 2009 I think it was.

It's no longer an island because, like many of the Jersey Shore barrier islands, it is separated from Long Island by tidal flats which aren't very deep to begin with. Most are actually river deltas. With the development of acres upon acres of farm land across the northeast through the late 1700's and in to the 1900's, the rain and irrigation waters dumped more and more erosion runoff into the rivers which gradually filled in the tidal flats. Those flats were known as Coney Island Creek. NYC planned to dredge the flats and make a shipping channel in the early 20th century but they never followed through. After WWII, it was partially filled in to build that illustrious model of a parking lot, the Belt Parkway, a.k.a.: The Shore Parkway. Aptly named Parkway for anyone who has tried to navigate it on a summer Friday afternoon. Only thing worse is the Cross-Bronx.

dorokusai

That great but Atlantic City is still an unshaved armpit.

DMara

Thanks for the good info, bklynNupe & Jstas.

bklynNupe

Jstas,
My comments were limited to population density of seaside communities in the Northeast. I thought it was a good comparison, but apparently you adamantly disagree?
However, thanks for the interesting read. I don’t think most of what you detailed here is conflicted with my initial point. However, I will take issue with one thing that you wrote.
“Coney Island is actually part of NYC. It's the southern most part of Brooklyn. It's smack in the middle of the 5 boroughs."

Not really, I know first-hand, the Belt Parkway is a God Forsaken drive during rush hour just like I-95, just like the Cross Bronx Expressway! Eastbound or Westbound on the Belt into Coney Island (which makes absolutely no difference), there is only really one way to get in, and that is through the traffic. Or if you really have all day, a local trek through Brooklyn Streets.
Any yes, I did see the same PBS doc about C.I. that you referenced and well as two others on WLIW and WNYC.


My apologies for sidetracking the thread, which is about the HBO series.
Please lets get back on topic with any comments about the show.

Thanks,
Brad

fatchowmein

You guys got me hooked on this show on one of the busiest nights of the week with Sunday night football, Dexter, True Blood (end of season 3), Mad Men (end of season 4), Hung (end of season 2), Breaking Bad (end of season 3), and The Walking Dead.

Monday nights are just as bad with House, Chuck, Lie to Me, The Event, Hawaii Five-0, and my new addiction - Castle. Beckett and Castle crack me up.

bklynNupe

fatchowmein wrote: »

You guys got me hooked on this show on one of the busiest nights of the week with Sunday night football, Dexter, True Blood (end of season 3), Mad Men (end of season 4), Hung (end of season 2), Breaking Bad (end of season 3), and The Walking Dead.

Monday nights are just as bad with House, Chuck, Lie to Me, The Event, Hawaii Five-0, and my new addiction - Castle. Beckett and Castle crack me up.

Boardwalk Empire is well written and well played.
Man, sounds like you have a very active dvr!

Hung, is extremely underrated, it is a brilliant comedy... but that is a discussion for another thread

bklynNupe

They have already begun filming the new season of Boardwalk Empire. :cool:
All week, the HBO production has been next door to my office shooting in the U.S. Custom House (http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/history/index.html). The production trucks take up the entire block. The location is used for a lot of movies including National Treasure 2 and Wall Street 2. It a massive building with cool history.
I’m really looking forward to the new season of Boardwalk Empire.

Fongolio

Excellent news. Great show.

codyc1ark

Bump!

I'm really digging the new season so far, this is quickly replacing Entourage (RIP) as my favorite show on the tube. I assume all you guys have been catching the second season as well.

bobman1235

Jesus Christ, how is it possible that someone watched and enjoyed Entourage and now watches and enjoys this?

That's like your favorite food going from Hamburger Helper to foie gras or something.

codyc1ark

bobman1235 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, how is it possible that someone watched and enjoyed Entourage and now watches and enjoys this?

That's like your favorite food going from Hamburger Helper to foie gras or something.

LOL. I know that they couldn't be any more different. I'm of the opinion that HBO produces some of the best, if not the best television. Both shows have been wildly successful, I can't help what I enjoy! :cheesygrin:

Willow

trying to watch it but our 4mth old son seems to not want to let us

bobman1235

codyc1ark wrote: »

LOL. I know that they couldn't be any more different. I'm of the opinion that HBO produces some of the best, if not the best television. Both shows have been wildly successful, I can't help what I enjoy! :cheesygrin:

yeah HBO and Showtime are really duking it out right now. Showtime has that new show "Homeland" that is FANTASTIC, as well as Dexter which has gone downhill but is still a good show.

And then of course there's AMC. Breaking Bad still blows every show out of the water.

codyc1ark

Annnnnnnnnnd WOW. Great last episode. I sort of saw that coming, but great season. Anyone else keep up with this one again?

Fongolio

I agree, great finish to season two!! I was a little disappointed with Nucky killing James. I liked that character. And what a shocker in the previous episode with James and his mother. OMG!!! Anyway, looking forward to season three.

chumlie

Just orderd season 1. If its half as good as The Wire or Deadwood. I'm a happy camper.

polkatese

Disappointed that the season is over. And yes, didn't see it coming that James' character was killed off.

drumminman

I could see James' oedipal thing from a ways back. They hinted at it with the weird body language he had with "mom". She always stood just a little too close - reminds me of that Police song!

James was damaged goods from the war. I wasn't expecting Nucky to shoot him, but it makes sense with the way James' character was developed. He was already the walking dead from his PTSD. He slowly came to realize that he didn't have the smarts or the cunning to compete with the likes of Nucky, etc. When he confirmed with the lawyer that his son will inherit the Commodore's estate when he dies, refused Richard's offer to go with him to meet Nuck, and left his gun at home it started to look bad.

Still, when Nucky shot him, in the face no less, I nearly jumped out of my chair. I mean, damn! James was like his son! And then he shot him in the face again!

That was the first violence Nucky did personally to anyone, though he ordered other murders.

So what do you think is gon'na happen to Margaret when Nuck finds out she signed the dead for the land over to the church? I think she's in a world of trouble!