Having Car Issues. Help?

tryrrthg

I guess I did forget to mention that they did pull one spark plug and replaced it. I can take a picture of that when i get home. From what I remember it looked most like the "deposits" picture in the link http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm

The dealer put 10w30 oil in it, but they also said they were going to put a high quality oil in it. The oil change places all seemed to be using 5w30. does that matter?

doggie750

What OIL are you using? Is it designed specifically for you Toyota? Investigate that first! You mentioned that the dealer topped off some additive (RED FLAG...not a good idea to, disturb the whole oil formulation...everything is BALANCE)

How's temp reading?

May be electronic issue, hence sensor.

nooshinjohn

doggie750 wrote: »

May be electronic issue, hence sensor.

Electronic issues will not make 3+ quarts of oil vanish unless they were designed by David Copperfield.

doggie750

tryrrthg wrote: »

I guess I did forget to mention that they did pull one spark plug and replaced it. I can take a picture of that when i get home. From what I remember it looked most like the "deposits" picture in the link http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm

The dealer put 10w30 oil in it, but they also said they were going to put a high quality oil in it. The oil change places all seemed to be using 5w30. does that matter?

In cold environment......

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Electronic issues will not make 3+ quarts of oil vanish unless they were designed by David Copperfield.

That's true but I was under the impression the the oil stick was checked when the engine was still hot, hence the oil was still on the engine..

concealer404

tryrrthg wrote: »

I guess I did forget to mention that they did pull one spark plug and replaced it. I can take a picture of that when i get home. From what I remember it looked most like the "deposits" picture in the link http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm

The dealer put 10w30 oil in it, but they also said they were going to put a high quality oil in it. The oil change places all seemed to be using 5w30. does that matter?

The oil difference won't matter. It's not anything that's going to cause more problems.


If it turns out that this motor is trashed, and needs to be rebuilt, don't.

Take it to an independent shop, and have them just replace this motor with a used motor. It'll be way cheaper than a dealer rebuild.

SLIGHTLY different situation, but the motor in my Escort burns a quart of oil at least a week. It needs to be rebuilt. I won't do it, or have it done. I'll just get a nice motor set from the junkyard and plop it in, call it a day.

A dealer rebuild could EASILY cost you 50% or more of the value of the car, and probably won't help the value of the car a whole lot.

concealer404

doggie750 wrote: »

In cold environment......

And only before the motor starts to reach operating temperatures. The "30" is the important part. In a newer car like this, and it being spring, there will be no problems.

Serendipity

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The new Corvettes are allowed under factory guidelines up to 1.5 quarts every 1000 miles!

We have a 2009 Chevrolet Corvette... doesn't burn any oil.

Ricardo

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The new Corvettes are allowed under factory guidelines up to 1.5 quarts every 1000 miles!

And why would anyone buy one?

joeparaski

tryrrthg wrote: »

I haven't monitored it in a long time. I fill up my tank once every 1.5 to 2 weeks. that really hasn't changed. I should probably have monitored it on my trip to Chicago.



I can afford the repair (obviously I don't want to) but the timing is horrible. We need to pay a down payment on the new house. My current house needs a new roof (it will be an issue for the buyer). I owe more in taxes than I anticipated. We're going to shell out plenty of cash when we sell our house and when we move into the new one. Plus the car is only worth $8-9K, how much should I really put into it?

It depends on what the problem ends up being, let us know when the final verdict is in. If you can get away with just adding oil now and then with no other ill effects, then do that. If it's using oil because of a problem with the piston rings...live with it. After all, you wouldn't repaint your whole car because it has a scratch on it, would you?

Joe

concealer404

Serendipity wrote: »

We have a 2009 Chevrolet Corvette... doesn't burn any oil.

Most won't... that's just a number that Chevrolet has deemed "acceptable." Honda used to do the same thing in the past with their cars powered by the old "B-Series" engines. I even believe they used the same number. The B-series Vtec motors burned oil off the factory floor.

The RX-8 is another example of the same situation.

nooshinjohn

^^^thanks man. The manufacturers will define acceptable parameters for things like oil consumption, brake wear, coolant loss etc... These are guidelines used for warrany issues mostly. To me, it seems absurd that a car should go through 1.5q per 1000 miles, but because of the kind of car Corvettes are and how they can be driven, it makes sense that there would need to be some standard by which to go by when 10k powerplants are involved. The first 7500/12000 miles are the worst for oil use as this is when things are just starting to settle in.

tryrrthg

well if something is wrong I hope I can take advantage of this

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

I'm not sure of the original purchase date of it though...

concealer404

I think that has something to do with the fabled "sludging" "issue," though.

I'm not sure that applies. Worth looking into, though.

Danny Tse

tryrrthg wrote: »

well if something is wrong I hope I can take advantage of this

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

I'm not sure of the original purchase date of it though...

Toyota send me something in the mail several years back regarding a legal settlement over the oil sludge issue. Something along the lines of extending the warranty and covering expenses on repairs due to oil sludge in the engine. I had a 2001 Camry at the time, but I experienced no oil sludge issues.

Currently, I do have a 2005 Toyota Highlander V6 with 71,000 miles and I have had no problems with the car. I noticed every time that I had my Highlander's oil changed at the dealer, they'd always put in a $1.50 gasket at the oil drain plug. Other oil change places never put in this gasket....and sure enough, my last oil change at Walmart resulted in a oil "drip". Maybe something to consider....

tryrrthg

Danny Tse wrote: »

I noticed every time that I had my Highlander's oil changed at the dealer, they'd always put in a $1.50 gasket at the oil drain plug. Other oil change places never put in this gasket....and sure enough, my last oil change at Walmart resulted in a oil "drip". Maybe something to consider....

I noticed the gasket charge on my bill from the dealer on Monday. could it leak from the gasket only when driving though? there has been no leaks that I have found.

tryrrthg

I checked my coolant. Nice and green. so that isn't it.

tryrrthg

And a picture of the spark plug they took out and replaced

TNRabbit

Sounding more & more like they screwed up on your last oil change~

tryrrthg

TNRabbit wrote: »

Sounding more & more like they screwed up on your last oil change~

Does that mean you think the spark plug looks normal?

My last TWO oil changes would have had to be messed up. Which is why I'm still worried... Each oil change was done at a different place. One at Monroe and the other at Valvoline instant oil change.

concealer404

Not to keep confusing you, but if the car is blatantly consuming oil, and you can't see it leaking anywhere... I highly doubt this is related to an oil change.

The only way it could be related is if the pressure while the car is running, NOT sitting, is enough to force it past maybe the filter seal, or if the oil is pooling somewhere on the motor when it's sitting, vs. getting blown out by wind while driving.

TNRabbit

The plug looks a little white for normal, but certainly not BLACK like it would be if you were burning oil.

Also, if you were leaking that much oil, it would be ALL OVER the place.

TNRabbit

The plug looks a little white for normal, but certainly not BLACK like it would be if you were burning oil.

Also, if you were leaking that much oil, it would be ALL OVER the place.

Jstas

A little white? That's ALOT white, dude!

That plug is running very lean. It also shows electrode wear. It's supposed to be a sharp cylinder, not a rounded mound. That plug is getting destroyed by chamber temperatures and if it is burning oil, that's likely why you aren't seeing anything coming out the tail pipe. It's running hot and lean and burning up the oil.

mhmacw

if you burned 4 quarts of oil in 1000 miles you would foul plugs about every 200 miles (so adjust this analogy according to how many miles youve driven). if you leaked 4 quarts of oil you would be spyhunter smoke screen man. if 4 quarts of oil hit your cooling system youd have thermostat issues and would have probably seized a piston already. there is a piece to this puzzle not yet divulged. oil doesnt disappear as stated earlier. a coffee cup of oil will make a stain 5 ft across on your parking space. im not familiar with the model you own... oil bath clutch? automatic trans? sealed bellhousing? is your drive train one peice and sealed? in the early sixties there was a buick(go figure) that had a sealed drive shaft. you could feasably loose a gallon of gear oil to the rearend and not have a drip on the ground. my point is if you have a sealed drive train its quite possible the oil is in your bell housing belly. i cant see it holding more than a few quarts so it will show its ugly face shortly. the automatic chevy trans and 207 transfer share an adapter with no seperation. if a rear trans seal fails the trans fluid goes into the transfer case. the oil is hiding somewhere and i must say id love to be there when the guy has it on the rack and finds/wears it lol.

mhmacw

Jstas wrote: »

A little white? That's ALOT white, dude!

That plug is running very lean. It also shows electrode wear. It's supposed to be a sharp cylinder, not a rounded mound. That plug is getting destroyed by chamber temperatures and if it is burning oil, that's likely why you aren't seeing anything coming out the tail pipe. It's running hot and lean and burning up the oil.

the extra whit is due to oxygenated fuel.

Jstas

mhmacw wrote: »

the extra whit is due to oxygenated fuel.

No, it isn't.

The oxygenated fuel doesn't cause a significant enough lean condition to create that kind of build up. On top of that, even if the plug wasn't a platinum plug, the electrode should not be an abnormally shaped mound. It should be a cylinder with sharp edges for good spark propagation. Not only is that plug way out of gap specs, it's damaged as well. I'm surprised it's even firing.

Jstas

By the way, tryrrthg, even though they are very white (might be the lighting making it seem more white), deposits like that are due to oil being burned in the combustion chamber. The electrode wear is due to a lean condition. If your engine is burning oil, then the computer is going to back off fuel pressure because the O2 sensor is picking up excessive hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream. The lack of fuel will make what is in there oxygen rich. That cause the chamber environment to burn very hot. With less fuel, the oil leakage will burn off to the point where it is not noticeable in the exhaust. But oil burns hotter than gas, just not as violently which is why the deposits form.

I would bet that you are burning oil and that the computer is picking it up and compensating thereby causing a lack of fuel to make a lean condition. But that plug is not normal. Also, that extra plug gap makes the plug inefficient which causes fuel to not burn completely and that also contributes to excessive depositing on the plug and electrode wear.


This is normal wear:



This is wear on a plug that is too old:



This is wear and deposits on a plug that is burning oil and/or coolant:



That 3rd picture looks most like what you have there in your picture, don'tcha think?

concealer404

I can't see the pictures right now, but Jstas sounds like he's on the right track.

I'll check the pictures when i get home. I burn up a set of plugs every oil change on my Mazda so i'm pretty used to reading plugs.

joeparaski

I'm with Jstas on this one. Great diagnosis and explanation Jstas...I'd like you to be on my team. So if you ever move to Quebec.....

Joe

mhmacw

those pic are well and good if you change the plugs on a regular basis and have a clean running engine monitored for air fuel mixture. though they are informative they arent always indicative. it is acceptable to compare plugs to a chart if there isnt a radicle problem afoot. this guy didnt say hes a half quart low at oil changes. he said hes lost 1 quart and a half in 370 miles. thats not applicable to a chart. you may as well pour it into the intake at that rate. oil in that volume would foul plugs and the cylinder would burn cold if it had a lower fuel pressure/volume being delivered compounding the problem of the oil not being burnd up. when oil is introduced to the combustion chamber it fouls plugs it doesnt make the cylinder burn hot.