Having Car Issues. Help?

tryrrthg

I’m having car issues. First, let me start out by saying I know nothing about cars. NOTHING. So bear with me…

I drive a 2002 Toyota Highlander V6 4WD, with 61,000 miles on it. About 3-4 weeks ago I started noticing my oil light on my dashboard come on when I hit my brakes hard and come to an abrupt stop. It would come on for half a second and then go off. I knew I was due for an oil change so I chalked it up to that and got my oil changed. After the oil change I never saw the light come on again until this past weekend when I drove to Chicago (about 370 miles from Columbus). The car drove fine on the way there, nothing strange. Then I hit Chicago stop and go traffic. When I applied my brake and came to an abrupt stop my oil light flashed on. When I got to my brothers place in Chicago we checked my oil and there was barely noticeable resemblance of oil on the end of dipstick. So we started adding oil so I could drive myself home. We added 4 quarts of oil before I could get the oil level between the dots on the stick. 4 freaking quarts!!! We found no leaks, there is no oil under the car after it sits, and no crazy blue smoke exhaust when it’s running.

I drove it home on Sunday, stopping several times along the way to add oil. I probably added another 1-1.5 quarts on my way home (another 370 miles). I took it to the Toyota dealer on Monday. They took the valve cover off and found no evidence of anything crazy going on. They changed the oil and put an oil additive in it and said they want to see it again in 1000 miles. I don’t think they tried very hard to diagnose anything, but the paperwork I got when I picked it up said “may need engine rebuild”

So does anybody have any idea what might be going on here? Or how much a freaking engine rebuild is going to cost me? I just paid this damn car off a few months ago (I bought it used about 2.5 years ago).

I don’t want another freaking car payment but at this point I want to trade it in as fast as I can and get something else. But I REALLY don’t want a car payment right now. My wife and I are expecting another child and we are building a new house. Our budget for those things was under the assumption that we wouldn’t have a car payment for several years. Even though we can swing a car payment, we don’t want one. The timing is horrible.

TNRabbit

There is NO WAY you should be burning that kind of oil with only 61k on the engine. I have a 1994 pickup w/V6 & 240,000 miles that uses 1 qt in 1,000 miles. Even if you were burning oil, as that rate there would be a CLOUD behind you~

When the oil light comes on like that under braking, it means your oil is WAAAAY low. Basically, the oil pickup starves for oil when it sloshes forward, & will only do that when it's exceptionally low.

1-Check your radiator for any evidence of oil (possible head gasket issue)
2-When you remove the oil cap, is there any "chocolate milkshake" looking residue under the cap? (head gasket)
3-Check the oil every time you fill up with gas until you figure out what the problem is....running low on oil is NOT going to help anything
4-No leaks anywhere?? That much oil can't just go away--it's got to be going somewhere

concealer404

Is this a 3.5litre V6?

Warranty or not, i'd start raising hell with the dealership. Who has been doing your oil changes and maintainence?

Systems

You said theres no "crazy blue smoke" when are you watching for it?

After its warmed up and sitting at an idle for awhile punch it and see what the exhaust looks like then....

I had an old Toyota pickup that burned quite a bit of oil but couldn't really see any blue smoke to speak of...unless it was acclerated hard.

When your crusing down the highway at 70 there might be a little more blue smoke then you think

Ricardo

Get your finger in the exhaust tip and tell us what you get (just black dry stuff, oily mess, etc.) -Wait until it's cooled down before doing this.

At that rate the exhaust should be dripping oil.

(Sorry to hear that).

Jstas

Have you checked your coolant?

If it's brown like a chocolate milkshake, I know where your oil went and you have an expensive repair on your hands.

TNRabbit

concealer404 wrote: »

Is this a 3.5litre V6?

Warranty or not, i'd start raising hell with the dealership. Who has been doing your oil changes and maintainence?

It's a 3.4 liter V6.

Lorthos wrote: »

You said theres no "crazy blue smoke" when are you watching for it?

After its warmed up and sitting at an idle for awhile punch it and see what the exhaust looks like then....

I had an old Toyota pickup that burned quite a bit of oil but couldn't really see any blue smoke to speak of...unless it was acclerated hard.

When your crusing down the highway at 70 there might be a little more blue smoke then you think

NO WAY should a Toyota engine with only 61k miles be using that much oil~

tryrrthg

Jstas wrote: »

Have you checked your coolant?

If it's brown like a chocolate milkshake, I know where your oil went and you have an expensive repair on your hands.

I haven't checked anything but looking for leaks. What would your scenario mean?

concealer404

^ Head gasket at the very least.

concealer404

TNRabbit wrote: »

It's a 3.4 liter V6.




NO WAY should a Toyota engine with only 61k miles be using that much oil~

They were still using the 5vzfe then? Wow. Then i'm really surprised. That's a monster of an overbuilt engine.

tryrrthg, who did the maintainence? If it was the dealership, i'm pretty sure you'd have a good case to make them eat the cost of the repair if you take the issue high enough.

Systems

Jstas wrote: »

Have you checked your coolant?

If it's brown like a chocolate milkshake, I know where your oil went and you have an expensive repair on your hands.

Boy, if that much oil is going into his cooling system wouldn't something eventually blow...cap, hose, something...

sda2mike

how bout the dipstick? does the oil look clear or is there some light brown goop on the end:eek:??

concealer404

Lorthos wrote: »

Boy, if that much oil is going into his cooling system wouldn't something eventually blow...cap, hose, something...

Yeah. 3+ quarts of oil in the cooling system would have some other fairly major symptoms that any monkey could pick out. The dealership shouldn't have missed that one, especially since the oil on the dipstick and under the valve covers would look strange as well.

tryrrthg

concealer404 wrote: »

They were still using the 5vzfe then? Wow. Then i'm really surprised. That's a monster of an overbuilt engine.

tryrrthg, who did the maintainence? If it was the dealership, i'm pretty sure you'd have a good case to make them eat the cost of the repair if you take the issue high enough.

oil changes and such are usally done at a monroe near my house.

tryrrthg

sda2mike wrote: »

how bout the dipstick? does the oil look clear or is there some light brown goop on the end:eek:??

The first time I checked it there was no oil on it to see. ever since I filled it back up and now the dealer changed the oil it looks fine, but that's only two days and maybe 40-50 miles of driving.

Jstas

concealer404 wrote: »

Yeah. 3+ quarts of oil in the cooling system would have some other fairly major symptoms that any monkey could pick out. The dealership shouldn't have missed that one, especially since the oil on the dipstick and under the valve covers would look strange as well.

How about you let me answer the questions that have been posed to me? :rolleyes:

tryrrthg wrote: »

I haven't checked anything but looking for leaks. What would your scenario mean?

Aside from a head gasket, a broken water jacket somewhere in the system can cause the issue. Also, depending on how oil is routed through the system, a bad intake gasket could be to blame as well. But I've personally seen Toyota engines with the sludging problem that Toyota says doesn't exist actually crack cylinder heads which leads to a level of consumption like what you are experiencing.

Lorthos wrote: »

Boy, if that much oil is going into his cooling system wouldn't something eventually blow...cap, hose, something...

Not necessarily. The OP lives in Ohio which gets really cold in the winter. If this problem has been going on for a while, he could very likely have not noticed because the engine isn't overheating because of the outside temperature.

I had a Ranger that never heated up in the winter. I used to zip tie cardboard over the radiator in the winter just so I could have heat. There was nothing mechanically wrong with the truck, it just didn't have enough engine mass to retain heat in the winter.

But if you are asking about pressure, if the oil is leaking into the coolant system then there is a pressure leak. If the coolant pressure comes up, the leak will be a release valve. That leak will vent in to the oil system and coolant can evaporate off through the PCV system which routes crankcase fumes in to the combustion chamber. It'd be virtually unnoticeable for a majority of the time. Then again, for pressure in the cooling system to become a problem, it would have to start overheating.

And honestly, if he lost 4 quarts, it probably burned a quart and a half and there are only 2 and a half quarts in a cooling system that like holds between 12 and 20 quarts. If the coolant system has a leak then you can easily loose a couple quarts to evaporation in between oil changes.

And yeah, it depends on where the leak is. But if it is leaking behind, say, the transmission bellhousing, it could be painting the underside of the car with a sheet of oil. That won't necessarily leave a telltale drip.

Jstas

tryrrthg wrote: »

The first time I checked it there was no oil on it to see. ever since I filled it back up and now the dealer changed the oil it looks fine, but that's only two days and maybe 40-50 miles of driving.

Wait for the car to cool down so you don't get injured from scalding coolant. Then go pop open the radiator. Be careful, it's still under pressure so let it vent before you open it. Look inside. Is it brown or is it that radioactive green or orange color? If it's brown, it's either VERY old coolant and should have been changed several thousand miles ago or you have a problem.

Another place you can check is in the oil cap. Don't just open the cap and look. Stick your finger inside the oil filler neck and run it around the place you can't see. If the oil isn't black like it's supposed to be and there is an excessive amount of foam and it's milky brown, you have moisture in your oil. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It happens, especially in cold weather. Often it's just condensation. Now, smell it. Does it smell like oil? It'll have kind of like a burned coffee smell. Or does it smell sweet with the distinctive ethylene-glycol smell? If it smells like dirty oil, it's just condensation. If it smells like coolant, something is leaking somewhere it shouldn't be. You'll need to take it to the mechanic to diagnose. They have this really cool dye that theey stick in your coolant and when they use a black light to look, the dye glows purple! Shows you where the leak is.

DaveHo

If there's no oil on the ground, & none in the cooling system, it has to be getting burned in the engine. How it's getting in there is the big question. Could be bad rings, intake gasket, valve seals, or a simple malfunctioning PCV system. You'd be surprised how much oil can be burned without ever seeing any trace coming out the exhaust. A properly functioning catalitic converter can really clean things up. I had an 86 Cutlass surpreme years ago that burned a quart every 100-120 miles. Never saw any trace coming out the exhaust.

-Dave

nooshinjohn

tryrrthg wrote: »

The first time I checked it there was no oil on it to see. ever since I filled it back up and now the dealer changed the oil it looks fine, but that's only two days and maybe 40-50 miles of driving.

I am willing to bet it was underserviced at the last oil change...

The dealer should have explained to you that they are running what is called a consumption test. They measure the oil level after the change and document the reading found on the dipstick. In 1000 miles they again read the stick, looking for the drop in oil level. from this they can calculate the rate of oil use and compare it to factory specs. All internal combustion engines use some oil. The new Corvettes are allowed under factory guidelines up to 1.5 quarts every 1000 miles!

I am going to go on record that your truck is probably fine and that someone screwed up on the last change. This has happened to me before as well. While changing the oil on my 1999 Camaro SS, some idiot working the pit at Jiffy Lube left the old seal from an oil filter in place and put a new filter and seal over the top of it. Shortly thereafter my car had a massive leak, 3 quarts a week! I never bothered to change the filter for almost 6 months because after a diagnosis of a blown rear main seal, I figured what's the point...

As I was getting ready to shell out huge bucks ($4200) the mechanic that was prepping the car to remove the motor found the mistake.

tryrrthg

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I am willing to bet it was underserviced at the last oil change...

The dealer should have explained to you that they are running what is called a consumption test. They measure the oil level after the change and document the reading found on the dipstick. In 1000 miles they again read the stick, looking for the drop in oil level. from this they can calculate the rate of oil use and compare it to factory specs. All internal combustion engines use some oil. The new Corvettes are allowed under factory guidelines up to 1.5 quarts every 1000 miles!

I am going to go on record that your truck is probably fine and that someone screwed up on the last change. This has happened to me before as well. While changing the oil on my 1999 Camaro SS, some idiot working the pit at Jiffy Lube left the old seal from an oil filter in place and put a new filter and seal over the top of it. Shortly thereafter my car had a massive leak, 3 quarts a week! I never bothered to change the filter for almost 6 months because after a diagnosis of a blown rear main seal, I figured what's the point...

As I was getting ready to shell out huge bucks ($4200) the mechanic that was prepping the car to remove the motor found the mistake.

holy crap I wish this to be true. but it's happened twice now.

I probably got an Oil change sometime in November or December

oil light comes on in early to mid February. (although this was probably the coldest January/February in Columbus than we've had in a LONG time and my car never sees a garage - it's parked outside all the time. I probably don't let it warm up enough in the morning either)

I have my oil changed in mid February. (around 60K miles on the car).

I put a few hundred miles on the car from mid February to March 5th

March 5th I drive to Chicago where my light comes on again...

tryrrthg

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The dealer should have explained to you that they are running what is called a consumption test.

So should I not be checking the oil myself at least twice a day now?

Jstas

You don't need to let your car warm up. You can drive it immediately after starting the car. You just gotta take it easy in the first couple of miles.

The only warming up I do is I let the engine idle down to idle speed. That takes all of 30 seconds to a minute.




And checking your oil is a good thing but having to do it twice a day is not considered a normal thing. Especially if you check it because the oil level drops drastically in the time period between the checks.

concealer404

tryrrthg wrote: »

oil changes and such are usally done at a monroe near my house.

Do you keep all your records?

tryrrthg

Jstas wrote: »

You don't need to let your car warm up. You can drive it immediately after starting the car. You just gotta take it easy in the first couple of miles.

The only warming up I do is I let the engine idle down to idle speed. That takes all of 30 seconds to a minute.




And checking your oil is a good thing but having to do it twice a day is not considered a normal thing. Especially if you check it because the oil level drops drastically in the time period between the checks.

I try to take it easy on the car until I get to the highway, but I live 1 mile from the highway I use to get to work, as soon as I hit that I drive 70+

I've only checked the oil once or twice a day since I got the car back on Monday. Level has pretty much stayed the same. However I only drive around 20 miles a day. It could take me forever to reach the 1000 miles especially since I'm kind of apprehensive to drive it anywhere. so I guess I just keep an eye on it and hope it doesn't go down too fast.

concealer404

Actually... i may be in Columbus this weekend to look at an MR2 Turbo. If that does go through, i'll let you know. I'd like to take a look at it. If the engine IS burning that much oil, someone behind you would be able to see it at least sporatically.

joeparaski

tryrrthg wrote: »

I’m having car issues. First, let me start out by saying I know nothing about cars. NOTHING. So bear with me…

I drive a 2002 Toyota Highlander V6 4WD, with 61,000 miles on it. About 3-4 weeks ago I started noticing my oil light on my dashboard come on when I hit my brakes hard and come to an abrupt stop. It would come on for half a second and then go off. I knew I was due for an oil change so I chalked it up to that and got my oil changed. After the oil change I never saw the light come on again until this past weekend when I drove to Chicago (about 370 miles from Columbus). The car drove fine on the way there, nothing strange. Then I hit Chicago stop and go traffic. When I applied my brake and came to an abrupt stop my oil light flashed on. When I got to my brothers place in Chicago we checked my oil and there was barely noticeable resemblance of oil on the end of dipstick. So we started adding oil so I could drive myself home. We added 4 quarts of oil before I could get the oil level between the dots on the stick. 4 freaking quarts!!! We found no leaks, there is no oil under the car after it sits, and no crazy blue smoke exhaust when it’s running.

I drove it home on Sunday, stopping several times along the way to add oil. I probably added another 1-1.5 quarts on my way home (another 370 miles). I took it to the Toyota dealer on Monday. They took the valve cover off and found no evidence of anything crazy going on. They changed the oil and put an oil additive in it and said they want to see it again in 1000 miles. I don’t think they tried very hard to diagnose anything, but the paperwork I got when I picked it up said “may need engine rebuild”

So does anybody have any idea what might be going on here? Or how much a freaking engine rebuild is going to cost me? I just paid this damn car off a few months ago (I bought it used about 2.5 years ago).

I don’t want another freaking car payment but at this point I want to trade it in as fast as I can and get something else. But I REALLY don’t want a car payment right now. My wife and I are expecting another child and we are building a new house. Our budget for those things was under the assumption that we wouldn’t have a car payment for several years. Even though we can swing a car payment, we don’t want one. The timing is horrible.

I'd say that regardless of what the final diagnosis is...the facts are that the timing is bad and you can't afford a major repair. Therefore, keep extra quarts of oil in the car, check it every few days, and add as required (for now). If the car keeps running fine and you're not letting out clouds of blue smoke or leaking badly, then add an additive (something for sticky rings or valve seals) and keep on driving.

Joe

ps...I may change my advice depending on what the final verdict is.

tonyb

Has your mpg dropped off the face of the earth? If no visible signs of oil on the ground or under carriage,then it's burning it up quickly, and that could be a host of problems. Take it back to Toyota, tell them your not satisfied with them, be prepared to let them keep it a few days so that a tech can drive it and monitor the oil usage.

Here's my take on it....you have been having xyz company do your oil changes,yes? It has been my experience with my Lexus, that these places don't install properly fit oil filters. Oh, they tell you they cross reference them to get the right filter,but it is not the same. I ran into this problem years ago when I started noticing oil loss. After bringing it back to lexus,they informed me that their filters are the only ones approved. Now,I know all B.S. aside,what dealer isn't going to tell you that right? I'll be damned though,the dude was right,and have never lost a drop since going back to factory parts, AND I do mean,not a friggin' drop. Your problem may or may not be that simple,hope so for your wallets sake. I also use nothing but mobil 1 from day one,more expensive but well worth it in my opinion.

nooshinjohn

...To check the oil is fine and to be expected, but do NOT add any, as this will void the test. If the lite comes on or it has dropped to an unsafe level, take it back to the dealer.

Don't buy another car without calling me first! (I sell them you know):D

tryrrthg

tonyb wrote: »

Has your mpg dropped off the face of the earth?

I haven't monitored it in a long time. I fill up my tank once every 1.5 to 2 weeks. that really hasn't changed. I should probably have monitored it on my trip to Chicago.

joeparaski wrote: »

I'd say that regardless of what the final diagnosis is...the facts are that the timing is bad and you can't afford a major repair. Therefore, keep extra quarts of oil in the car, check it every few days, and add as required (for now). If the car keeps running fine and you're not letting out clouds of blue smoke or leaking badly, then add an additive (something for sticky rings or valve seals) and keep on driving.

Joe

ps...I may change my advice depending on what the final verdict is.

I can afford the repair (obviously I don't want to) but the timing is horrible. We need to pay a down payment on the new house. My current house needs a new roof (it will be an issue for the buyer). I owe more in taxes than I anticipated. We're going to shell out plenty of cash when we sell our house and when we move into the new one. Plus the car is only worth $8-9K, how much should I really put into it?

tryrrthg

nooshinjohn wrote: »

...To check the oil is fine and to be expected, but do NOT add any, as this will void the test. If the lite comes on or it has dropped to an unsafe level, take it back to the dealer.

Don't buy another car without calling me first! (I sell them you know):D

from what I remember you sell Subaru's? I have been eyeing the new Forester... but I don't want to pay for one!

You intersted in a trade in?

BAD ASP

If you are reasonably handy and have the right tools the best indicator IMHO is to pull one of the spark plugs and look at the tip. You can google spark plug appearance (http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm) and see an actual picture of what it should look like. But in simplest terms in your engine, with decent plugs, they should be a light even tan. If the plugs are getting any oil at all they will start to look oily and black..(common sense yeh!). If plugs are beginning to oil foul you should feel a loss in performance and hesitation as you accelerate. Someone a few posts earlier offered that there may have been a bad mistake in your last oil change and you are experiencing a coincidence. Word of advice, when you have an oil change done for you, always stop the car... get out and look underneath to see if there is any leaking. Next shut it off and check your oil level. You do this when you change your own oil so it should be a routine practice even if someone else is doing it.
If you were losing oil at the rate you're mentioning then a few highway trips should show loss on your dipstick. This situation doesn't appear and then "heal" itself. If there is something mechanically wrong with your oiling system then it will be constant and you should be able to detect it after just a few hundred miles. Good luck and keep us posted with your findings.