Power cables?
Comments
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...and the reason for this demo you ask? They are measureable superior to the current speakers I'm considering to replace them with.;)
You going to break out the oscilloscope to make your decision?I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
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I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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What measurements are we talking about?...and the reason for this demo you ask? They are measureable superior to the current speakers I'm considering to replace them with.;)"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
From Grant at Shunyata Research:Here are a few simple, straightforward explanations in layman's terms..
One of the fundamental reasons any decently designed after-market power cord can make a difference is that noise generated and shared within interconnected systems poses a far greater challenge to resolution and fidelity than externally generated AC interference. Just as it is within electronics themselves, the laws of proximity rule when it comes to the effective treatment of radiated and power supply generated noise.
Power cords are designed to act as sympathetic, noise-isolated extensions of the primary winding within a component’s power supply. Seen this way, their function takes on a more understandable role. They represent the initial outward electrical interface for each piece of electronics in the system. That raw wire interface can either act as an antenna for radiated HF and ground-borne noise or it can be engineered to isolate the power-supply port from internal and external EMI, RFI interference.
There is no such thing as a power supply that is adequate to filtering or isolating itself entirely from the huge volume of gigahertz noise that surrounds electronics systems and comes from within them. The bigger and more powerful the system, typically the larger the problem an unshielded or unprotected AC port can become. That is not to say electronics systems cannot sound great without after-market cords, or that tons of money must be spent on them, it's just to say that there is real-world science that explains why that they "can and most often do make an easy to hear difference or improvement in recorded or reproduced sound".
In general, power cords do not represent the last few feet of an AC grid leading to a component; they are first few feet from the perspective of each component’s power supply. Due to the fact that your AC is in principle the_source_ of sound for any music or sound system--AC rectified to DC which carries the signal through the system--it would seem imprudent to ignore the possibility of a difference and not perform the simplest of empirical experiments for oneself--unless the point of discourse is only to make funny asides under strict internet protection
).
Since no product of this or any kind are being forced on anyone, each is free to try for themselves and make their own determination. Certainly the fact that many of the finest recording studios, mastering professionals, electronics engineers speaker manufacturers openly use and endorse them would seem to dim some of the more ardent "internet posting professionals" erm, arguments...
Grant
Shunyata Research"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
More:>>>"In some ways, it doesn't so much matter what is going on with the many feet of unshielded cable in your walls as long as you are effectively dealing with radiation, interference and noise potentially present in the area directly behind your equipment."<<<
That is essentially true. Improving the wire quality, gauge, isolation and connections between your panel and the wall outlet will render a noticeable improvement in most any system, but nowhere near the improvement *possible* as you move closer to electronics.
Too many people labor under the misconception that components sit at the end of an electrical "hose" and AC pours in like water carrying AC noise and garbage with it. The reality is that components sit between the hot and neutral poles of AC that are rapidly alternating current impulses. Noise that comes from outside the home is minimal and has almost no impact on system resolution compared to system generated and shared noise. Its still a good idea to have system protection from natural weather events or grid surge problems but even these in most cases are over rated. Electronics themselves have built in power filtration that will knock down common spikes and surges that are external to the system.
The bridge rectifiers or switching supplies in electronics--especially within amps and digital transports are often the main culprits in emitting ultra high-frequency noise both as a back-wave and a radiation pattern that surround electronics like a halo and race back through ground. Whatever can be done to mitigate that noise nearest its inception will often net the most obvious results. Obviously, nothing with AC is simple or insensitive so connections, terminations, resistance, reactance, impedance, shielding, geometry and wire type and quality can all play roles in shaping a final outcome.
Of course this is all a process and no one has all the answers. This is more of a readers digest version of what goes on based on experience.
I would never put PC's ahead of room treatment, electronics selection, speaker interface etc etc. However, when viewed as a system rather than as a single PC add on aftermarket tweak to be compared one at a time, replacing power cords in any stock PC system will render fairly irrefutable results in terms of a plainly audible difference. Whether that's good bad or otherwise is in the eye or ear of the beholder.
For those that don't believe their ears, replacing a stock PC on any top quality flat screen like a Pioneer Elite with a good shielded power cord will also render an immediate, hard to ignore result. FWIW.
Grant"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
More:
Questionable "research" from some people that just so happen to sell power cables. -
concealer404 wrote: »You going to break out the oscilloscope to make your decision?
No, I'm going to use my ears and REW.What measurements are we talking about?
Frequency response (both on and off-axis), power bandwidth, distortion, colouration analysis, etc. Things that have been proven through credible research to have an effect on audio quality. -
What speakers do you have now?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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All I know is that I just plugged my stiff aftermarket powercord into the wall instead of a Pananmax 5100 X and the improvement was significant.
I wish I had done this before my little get together.
ScottI like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D -
What speakers do you have now?
Technically they will be replacing these fully active, 4-way DIY speakers I had commisioned to be built for my two channel setup.
Long story on those I'd rather not get into....but they are better than my HT speakers that I'm currently using for music as well, X-SLS encores with No-Rez and a Skiing Ninja x-over upgrades. -
It's all in your head Scott.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Technically they will be replacing these fully active, 4-way DIY speakers I had commisioned to be built for my two channel setup.
Long story on those I'd rather not get into....but they are better than my HT speakers that I'm currently using for music as well, X-SLS encores with No-Rez and a Skiing Ninja x-over upgrades.
Are they the Kabuki model?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Are they the Kabuki model?
Not sure what your asking but if it's in reference to the Skiing Ninja upgrade, I went with the Elite:
http://www.skiingninja.com/x-sls-Encore-Elite-Upgrades-p/xslsee.htm -
What tools will you be using to measure distortion and coloration analysis? Have you done research on the drivers GR uses, as far as FR and distortion?Frequency response (both on and off-axis), power bandwidth, distortion, colouration analysis, etc. Things that have been proven through credible research to have an effect on audio quality."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Are they the Kabuki model?
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Mustang....this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyby....
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
MillerLiteScott wrote: »All I know is that I just plugged my stiff aftermarket powercord into the wall instead of a Pananmax 5100 X and the improvement was significant.
I wish I had done this before my little get together.
Scott
Do you have a dedicated outlet Scott?
if not, the improvement will be even more significant.
I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie. -
What tools will you be using to measure distortion and coloration analysis? Have you done research on the drivers GR uses, as far as FR and distortion?
I will not be doing most of those measurements personally(I trust Danny and like most, I don't have all the equipment), the info is already available, though I may add additional bracing and constraint layers to the cabinet I build if I do decide to go with these, I hate midbass coloration due to a resonance cabinet. This is merely a listening test and I'll verify that they aren't damaged from all the shipping.
Yes the M-165X woofer and a Neo 3 pdr are well documented.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54382.0 -
I will not be doing most of those measurements personally(I trust Danny and like most, I don't have all the equipment), the info is already available, though I may add additional bracing and constraint layers to the cabinet I build if I do decide to go with these, I hate midbass coloration due to a resonance cabinet. This is merely a listening test and I'll verify that they aren't damaged from all the shipping.
Yes the M-165X woofer and a Neo 3 pdr are well documented.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54382.0
So you won't acknowledge when a manufacturer like Shunyata gives the buyer info and write it off as "suspect", but it's ok for Danny from GR Research who designed the speakers and is in the business to sell speakers for a profit to give his analysis and measurements to you and you just blindly accept them?
Hmmmmm.......sounds a bit hypocritical and unscientific to me. I bet if you like what you hear, you'll probably let your ears decide.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Yes a circuit just for my gear. The same circuit that I was using before but my Integrated was plugged into a conditioner.I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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I have power cords I purchased with my money specifically for my music system. I have found I like using them in my audio system. My goal is now to have all the same power cords throughout my rig as I have settled on the brand I prefer and believe this to be the best case scenario, the power cords improve the way the music coming from my audio system's speakers sound, it sounds more musically involving as the system components interact with each other and myself as the user.
I would recommend some investment into power cords along with some reading about the impressions certain cords gave reviewers system's which may be similiar to any given member. Beyond this empirical evidence has vastly outweighed relying upon measurement of any given device in determining sound quality, just keep it real, think about where you are going or if you are already there then relax and enjoy the music.
RT1 -
No, I'm going to use my ears and REW.
So why do you choose to not do the same with other things in your rig?
What's your guide that shows what parts of your stereo you listen to, and the parts you just look at? How do you make the decision?I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
I SWEAR by A.R.T power conditioners with APF filtering. ON anything IEC I use Monster Powerline 200 low noise cords.
It has those olympic downhill spirit. 
