Power cables?

Beta

Now I am starting to get confused with regard to the APC H15 power conditioner that I am using.

My APC H15 very consistently reads (never drops below 118)...

Vin = 121 Vac
Vout = 121 Vac

I was under the impression that a consistent flow of power was better.

Might someone be kind enough to explain (in layman's terms) to me how the APC H15 could be limiting the quality/output of my gear?

I have my A21 amp, P3 pre amp, Cambridge 840c, Wadia 170i transport, CIAudio VDC 9.0 High current supply (powering my Wadia) and Parasound Zbreeze fan all running through it. It never makes a sound. It just silently sits there. Seems to work perfectly.

I brought up the cable question because that is simply another "tweak" I haven't tried yet.

Thanks
Andy

heiney9

Beta wrote: »

I was under the impression that a consistent flow of power was better.

Might someone be kind enough to explain (in layman's terms) to me how the APC H15 could be limiting the quality/output of my gear?



Thanks
Andy

It's not, don;t worry about it. There are some that believe if the power cond. isn't marketed specifically for high end audio, then it's no good. If you look at the $499 Rotel power cond. it is made by APC and is the exact unit you have just with a different fascia.

There are power cond. out there (like Monster) that "choke" your components and can have a detrimental effect on the final sound. I have not found that to be the case at all with the H15. Are there even better conditioners and regenerators out there.............sure but plan to spend $600+ for marginal improvements.

YMMV

H9

Beta

H9,

Thank you. I was trying figure this out. The APC H15 works flawlessly. As much as I try, I simply can't detect any degradation in performance or sound what so ever...

Andy

heiney9

Beta wrote: »

H9,

Thank you. I was trying figure this out. The APC H15 works flawlessly. As much as I try, I simply can't detect any degradation in performance or sound what so ever...

Andy

I'm about as anal as they come and I have found *zero* faults with it as a conditioner/regulator. I initially bought it for my office rig and the idea was to try it on my main rig first, and it stayed in the main rig.

That's not to say you couldn't get some incremental improvement with a PS Audio or other higher end unit but be prepared to spend a lot more money. It's not the be all, end all of conditioning but it does a really great job and the voltage regulation is a nice feature

H9

dougy

F1nut wrote: »

Since you have absolutely no experience with power cords, why would you feel qualified to comment on the matter?

Oh, I have had lots of experience with power cords. I've used them for years. I've repaired a few and even made a few. What kind of experience are you talking about?

comfortablycurt

What's with the hatin' on APC power conditioners?

I've got an H10, and I love it. I'm probably going to upgrade to an H15 eventually, and use the H10 in a second rig.

zingo

Has anyone tried the combo of an in-wall conditioner (PS Audio Soloist or MIT Z-Duplex Super) and unfiltered, high current power strip (Tripp Lite) for the distributing? It seems like it would provide clean power, multiple outlets, and take up minimal space. Thoughts?

concealer404

dougy wrote: »

Oh, I have had lots of experience with power cords. I've used them for years. I've repaired a few and even made a few. What kind of experience are you talking about?

I believe he meant aftermarket power cords, upgraded power cords etc etc etc...

The type that were referred to in the OP's original post. The type that this thread is about.

Beta

"What's with the hatin' on APC power conditioners?"

I didn't understand that either.

Very much appreciated H9's post. I initially bought the Furman Elite 15PF -i-. I incorporated the Furman into my gear and my amp eventuallty started to pop on and off. On the advice of an electrician who specializes in high end audio and HT set ups, I swapped the Furman out last summer with the APC H15. I have not had one single problem since. Furthermore, I cannot detect any degradation in sound or performance.

Interestingly, the Furman was more expensive than the APC....

Andy

dougy

concealer404 wrote: »

I believe he meant aftermarket power cords, upgraded power cords etc etc etc...

The type that were referred to in the OP's original post. The type that this thread is about.

Yeah, I know what he meant.

The OP's question was "will I benefit from upgraded power cables?" In my opinion, no. Sorry if that offends anyone but that is my opinion. Replacing one power cord with another is going to have about the same effect on sound quality as replacing your garden hose will have on your veggie quality. But by all means, spend as much as makes you feel good. It's a free country! The economy needs the stimulation!!

heiney9

dougy wrote: »

Yeah, I know what he meant.

The OP's question was "will I benefit from upgraded power cables?" In my opinion, no. Sorry if that offends anyone but that is my opinion. Replacing one power cord with another is going to have about the same effect on sound quality as replacing your garden hose will have on your veggie quality. But by all means, spend as much as makes you feel good. It's a free country! The economy needs the stimulation!!

Can I ask how you can have an opinion when you admittedly haven't tried it?

concealer404

dougy wrote: »

Yeah, I know what he meant.

The OP's question was "will I benefit from upgraded power cables?" In my opinion, no. Sorry if that offends anyone but that is my opinion. Replacing one power cord with another is going to have about the same effect on sound quality as replacing your garden hose will have on your veggie quality. But by all means, spend as much as makes you feel good. It's a free country! The economy needs the stimulation!!

The helpful opinions are based on personal experiences. You have none.

That's like saying "I don't think germs exist, because i haven't seen any."

dougy

heiney9: "Can I ask how you can have an opinion when you admittedly haven't tried it?"

Sure. I was born with a little of something called common sense.

Can I ask you just what mystical properties must come into play for the last few feet of wire the AC travels after having come miles from it's source to have any possible effect on sound quality? Especially when you consider we're talking power supply here; not signal.

dougy

concealer404 wrote: »

The helpful opinions are based on personal experiences. You have none.

That's like saying "I don't think germs exist, because i haven't seen any."

Gee, you all are so sensitive when someone challenges your little belief system with common sense! I think your ears are not as golden as you would all like to think. As Paul Klipsch would say..."****!"

cstmar01

umm using common sense one would know too that a properly shielded aftermarket chord will typically cost you more than the one they just throw in the box with something as that type of cable cost more due to manufactoring costs. If you want to see this for yourself, go order some and see how much it can run.
If one is properly shielded it will help lower the noise floor and typically give a better sound than one that is not.


Also a little common sense can go a long way, such as not insulting people trying to give someone help. But I guess you know everything because you never tried it, but can speak on the topic that you know nothing about by using your common sense.

Common sense would tell me you would try something before you speak about it, and rather than being insulting to others who are trying to help, that you clearly state your opinion and move on.

concealer404

Oh lord, here we go again. I suggest you don't start your stand with attacking the majority portion of this forum's common sense. It's not real becoming.

For a little light reading, i suggest you check out DarqueKnight's power cord studies (they're posted here) and then see how you feel.

If you don't feel like reading so you can see all the numbers that you probably like to focus on, instead of what you HEAR in a hobby that is all about that... then we can't "help" you. But keep in mind that there are many of us that have tried upgraded power cords with positive results.

Frankly? I don't care if you think it's in my head. I hear a difference, and my enjoyment of what i HEAR is enhanced. Even if science can't explain it, i'm still happier. Money well spent.

I suggest you do the OP a favor and let them decide themselves, let them go on their own audio journey. They don't have the same ears as you, and very possibly might not have the same numbers-focused mind as you.

You can continue to read about gear. I will listen to it.

concealer404

dougy wrote: »

Gee, you all are so sensitive when someone challenges your little belief system with common sense! I think your ears are not as golden as you would all like to think. As Paul Klipsch would say..."****!"

How can you comment if you don't have the experience? You attack our ears, but you aren't using your own.

Again, and i don't know how many times i have to say this:

This is a hobby about what you HEAR. Why do some people insist on making it about what they READ? Use your ears. Not your eyes.


Here's some relevant, and actually rational (gasp!) discussion on this same subject:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96375

Read it all, please.

heiney9

dougy wrote: »

heiney9: "Can I ask how you can have an opinion when you admittedly haven't tried it?"

Sure. I was born with a little of something called common sense.

Can I ask you just what mystical properties must come into play for the last few feet of wire the AC travels after having come miles from it's source to have any possible effect on sound quality? Especially when you consider we're talking power supply here; not signal.

Someday you should give it a try and then your opinion will actually mean something. I've tried it and it can make a difference with some gear. I just encourage everyone to genuinely give something a try before forming what amounts to a baseless opinion.

Rock on and enjoy the music

H9

P.s. BTW, I'm not sensitive at all, just trying to get an idea how your assumptions are formed. I could care less if you agree with me, but if you haven't tried it, then I have no idea how you can form an opinion.

F1nut

dougy wrote:

Replacing one power cord with another is going to have about the same effect on sound quality as replacing your garden hose will have on your veggie quality.

Replacing a typical garden hose that requires one to either stand at the garden holding the spray head while showering the veggies or having it attached to a sprinkler of some sort will not do as good a job at watering the roots as using a soaker hose. So yes, replacing your garden hose with a better one will have a positive effect on your veggie quality. Therefore, I feel it is safe to say that you have no experience with garden hoses either.

dougy

I'll tell you what I think. I think I've just taken a stroll through the valley of the lemmings in the land of the loonies. Still no one has offered the least attempt at a rational, technically sound explanation as to why the critical last few feet of power transmission carrier could possibly affect SQ. I'll be here patiently waiting.

concealer404

dougy wrote: »

I'll tell you what I think. I think I've just taken a stroll through the valley of the lemmings in the land of the loonies. Still no one has offered the least attempt at a rational, technically sound explanation as to why the critical last few feet of power transmission carrier could possibly affect SQ. I'll be here patiently waiting.

I ask again... why are you so hung up on what you can see when talking about a hobby that's about what you hear?

Do you listen to your rig, or do you read it?

Land of the loonies... Why don't you just come out and tell us that you think the overwhelming majority of this forum's membership base is crazy? Keep in mind that you're a part of the very small minority. There's got to be some reason for that, wouldn't you say?

heiney9

dougy wrote: »

I'll tell you what I think. I think I've just taken a stroll through the valley of the lemmings in the land of the loonies. Still no one has offered the least attempt at a rational, technically sound explanation as to why the critical last few feet of power transmission carrier could possibly affect SQ. I'll be here patiently waiting.

And you haven't offered any proof for your assumption to the contrary, so what gives? **** for tat? So far you've stated you have never tried it and you've given a completely ridiculous analogy about gardening.

I hear a difference that's all that matters to me. If you want proof, then go out buy some different types of after market cords and listen for youself. I can tell just by your attitude no amount of evidence, even your own listening session (should you decide to do one) will change your mind. It's already made up just by your assumptions. Why would I want to waste my time trying to convince someone who won't even try it for themselves? Really, why would I even waste the effort.

Read my sig, that's what I truly believe and have experienced.

H9

This could be a very constructive thread but, Dougy, if you're going to start with veiled name calling I suggest you just move along. No one has insulted your POV or you personally so I'd expect the same courtesy. But hey, if your going to put those kinds of insults out there, expect to get them thrown back at you.

cstmar01

dougy wrote: »

I'll tell you what I think. I think I've just taken a stroll through the valley of the lemmings in the land of the loonies. Still no one has offered the least attempt at a rational, technically sound explanation as to why the critical last few feet of power transmission carrier could possibly affect SQ. I'll be here patiently waiting.

Post #47... I told you one way it can make a difference, but you nicely ignored it.

Common sense I guess told you not to read it.

and to the OP. Give some thought to Signal cable and PS audio. Both can be found for good prices. Signal brand new and the other you can find some deals on Agon as well.
Both typically resell very well, Signal ususally goes very quick. and you can see if the cable makes a difference for you and then go from there if you want to try others out. Its just a choice you have to decide if you want to do it or not.

concealer404

Dougy, here's some reading material for you, since you seemed to ignore it when i pointed it out before:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=15071890

Review (with visible measurements!!!!!) of the PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12 Power Cord.

If you hunger for more cable/power delivery reviews, then check out the results of this search. There are plenty of measurements for you to feast your eyes on if you're unwilling to use your ears for yourself.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=15071890


That all said... i don't particularly care if you still don't feel any of this can make a difference, or if you even take it upon yourself to form your own valid opinion based on experience instead of parroting what you read on the internet. The problem here is that you would rather the OP not find out for himself, and potentially lead him AWAY from another dimension in his own audio journey. That's not right. If you're a rational person, you should be able to understand that. I hear a difference, it's no skin off my back if nobody else does. I'm not going to tell the OP that he WILL hear a difference, or that he'll find the experiment worthwhile, only that he should find out for himself. You're attempting to curtail that.

polkatese

Where's Bill Murray when you go through Groundhog Day...again.

WilliamM2

concealer404 wrote: »

For a little light reading, i suggest you check out DarqueKnight's power cord studies (they're posted here) and then see how you feel.

Very good suggestion. Read the measurements he took that show results far below the human threshold of hearing. Results that clearly show "no audible difference".

But I'd hardly call them "studies". No controlled listening tests, and he draws a conclusion based totally on his own beliefs, while completely ignoring his own measurements. Science at it's best.

I guess what they say is true, those that CAN do, those that CAN'T teach.

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

Someday you should give it a try and then your opinion will actually mean something.

You sure? You've tried it, and your opinion still means nothing.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You sure? You've tried it, and your opinion still means nothing.

Maybe not to you personally, never said my personal opinion based on what I actually tried and then formed a conclusion about would mean everything to everybody.

If it means nothing to you, fine. What's your point?

H9

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

Maybe not to you personally, never said my personal opinion based on what I actually tried and then formed a conclusion about would mean everything to everybody.

If it means nothing to you, fine. What's your point?

H9

Still trying to figure out what your point is, insisting everyone try something before commenting on it. Like somehow that gives their opinion any validity at all.

Do you need to hire a palm reader yourself before informing someone else it's BS, or do you really need to try it yourself first?

heiney9

Actually I'm not really responding to you, I'm responding to the OP. You've made your position known. I'm sure the OP appreciates all of it. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else. Just pointing out how I arrived at my conclusion.

I would try the Palm reader for myself, actually have tried one on a few occasions...........for me it's just not my bag. For other's, no skin off my back if they want to pay someone to predict their future. If someone asks me what I think, I'll surely tell them.

H9