Power cables?

Hawkeye

One thing I've noticed about threads like this is the attitude of the poster. On one hand you have the believer (which I am) who says, try it and see if you obtain some benefit. If not, ok.

Then on the other hand the nonbelievers who automatically resort to DBT's, stats then name calling and finally insults to peoples chosen profession.

I can appreciate the nonbelievers view if couched in acceptable conversation. WilliamM2, your a parasite.

Gordon

cstmar01

Do we really need to get the BS thread started again?

Let people decide for themselves, try things out, and if they don't like it, they don't, if they do they do.

I may not go to a palm reader to know its not real but some people may just want to see for themselves, its human nature to be curious and try new things. Someone wants to try a cable out all the power to them, just don't call what others hear BS, you are not them, you can not speak for them, thus you won't know what they hear. We are all different, please stop with it all already, we get the point you don't like them and think its silly. Its also very rude to say that everyone else is wrong and your the right one, no one is ever right or wrong when it comes to opinions but I guess to you they can be.

I really don't want to see another thread closed again.

heiney9

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Still trying to figure out what your point is, insisting everyone try something before commenting on it. Like somehow that gives their opinion any validity at all.

If you really believe that.................you really have some issues. But your typical arguments are to always answer a direct question with another question. My point is rather clear as you stated "everyone should try something before commenting on it".

Again what's your point?

Anyways I've had my say, I hope the OP atleast will give some PC's a try and discover for himself.

This is starting to become a circular argument again since WM2 has joined in so I'm outta here. I can't deal with illogical statements or people who say ridiculous stuff for arguments sake.

H9

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

I would try the Palm reader for myself, actually have tried one on a few occasions...........for me it's just not my bag. For other's, no skin off my back if they want to pay someone to predict their future. If someone asks me what I think, I'll surely tell them.

H9

You have actually tried a palm reader? That explains a lot right there. You pretty much believe anything, no real discussion to be had with that type of logic.

dougy

concealer404 wrote: »

I ask again... why are you so hung up on what you can see when talking about a hobby that's about what you hear?

Do you listen to your rig, or do you read it?

Land of the loonies... Why don't you just come out and tell us that you think the overwhelming majority of this forum's membership base is crazy? Keep in mind that you're a part of the very small minority. There's got to be some reason for that, wouldn't you say?

What I can see? I have no clue what you're talking about.

...And no, I don't think "the overwhelming majority of this forum's membership base is crazy". I never said that. But there obviously is an element here that values voodoo over common sense.

Erik Tracy

Must be a slow day over on AVS.

concealer404

dougy wrote: »

What I can see? I have no clue what you're talking about.

...And no, I don't think "the overwhelming majority of this forum's membership base is crazy". I never said that. But there obviously is an element here that values voodoo over common sense.

You can see the scientific/electric measurement values. And that's what you're hung up on. You're discounting cables because you can't see science that says they make a difference, rather than using your ears to listen and come up with your own conclusion. Again, instead of parroting what you've read on the internet.

And again... you're implying that we lack common sense. It's not that hard to see that.

WilliamM2

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Must be a slow day over on AVS.

Why do you mention AVS in just about every post you make? If you have some issue with them, why not take it over there?

Erik Tracy

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Why do you mention AVS in just about every post you make? If you have some issue with them, why not take it over there?

Cuz just about every person who stirs the pot here is from AVS in a crusade to set the world straight with 'science'.

Not interested in 'taking it over there' - they are as closed minded as they come.

jinjuku

I will take up Signal Cable on their 30 day return policy for a power cord.

Still trying to figure out after the power has traveled who knows how many miles, gets down converted at the pole transformer to 660 then to 220 then mains at the house for 110-120, go through the service panel, through a circuit breaker, through another 75 foot of cheap contractors romex through a vanilla run of the mill outlet that cost ~$3. How a $100-$165 power cord all of 3 or 4 feet transforms it all. Surely there has to be an explanation rooted in science some where?

Be interesting to blind test this out and hear the difference. And I am 100% hoping that I will hear a noticeable and appreciative difference because it will be a good use of $100-$165.

The cord Adcom supplied is a really heavy duty cord...

WilliamM2

concealer404 wrote: »

You're discounting cables because you can't see science that says they make a difference, rather than using your ears to listen and come up with your own conclusion. Again, instead of parroting what you've read on the internet.

Instead of parroting what you read on the internet, why don't you conduct a proper listening test using just your ears, demonstrate there really is a difference, and end the debate forever?

WilliamM2

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Cuz just about every person who stirs the pot here is from AVS in a crusade to set the world straight with 'science'.

Yes, it's a huge conspiracy. :rolleyes:

heiney9

Hmmmmm....I wonder why hospitals have a very specific set of guidlines they require for their equipment to run properly. Those specific ELECTRICAL guidlines are not only for reliability but because they use very expensive and in some cases very sensitive electronic equipment. If cables, cords, outlets make no difference, then why the strict specification.

I guess it a conspiracy as well.............you know with all the high health care costs and what not.

H9

P.s. I was out of this discussion but I have been thinking about this issue so I thought I'd post it.

Erik Tracy

Let's 'play out' the AVS 'scientific' posture.

If a person claims they hear a diffference in their system with a cable:
AVS reply: "Well, you didn't level match."

If a person claims to have level matched and still hears a difference:
AVS reply: "Well, you are clearly succumbing to the placebo effect."

If a person even provides an explanation, or even better data(graphs, etc - see DarqueKnights excellent review of a power cable: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88538)
AVS reply: "This is not science, this is techno babble"

And then the last trump is the old double-blind bluff where the final AVS 'call' is "Oh yeah, betcha can't identify your cable in a double blind test."

Sure seems to me that irregardless of any discussion - it is the AVS unbelievers who have already made up their minds and have closed them as well.

Odd - that sure doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit of scientific discovery thru direct observation.

Me? I didn't make up my mind by being a link lemming....I kept my mind and ears opened and tried for myself and....gasp....I could actually hear a difference...for the better.

WilliamM2

heiney9 wrote: »

Hmmmmm....I wonder why hospitals have a very specific set of guidlines they require for their equipment to run properly. Those specific ELECTRICAL guidlines are not only for reliability but because they use very expensive and in some cases very sensitive electronic equipment. If cables, cords, outlets make no difference, then why the strict specification.

Why not look it up? It's moslty as you say, for reliability, and safey. I know sparks and oxygen tanks don't mix too well. You don't see them claiming it improves the sucess rate of cancer treatment, or makes patients heal faster.

WilliamM2

Odd - that sure doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit of scientific discovery thru direct observation.

Well there's your problem, you've been absolutely unable to show any direct observation. Sorry about that.

You consider testing things, and looking for the truth, "closed minded", but ignoring all the testing that has been done is "open minded".

Erik Tracy

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Well there's your problem, you've been absolutely unable to show any direct observation. Sorry about that.

You consider testing things, and looking for the truth, "closed minded", but ignoring all the testing that has been done is "open minded".

I did show it - to myself - that's the only person I need to convince. I'm not on a crusade like AVS is.

Norm Apter

And a simple question once again turns into a monster debate. Given the original query, there's really no need for this thread to be extended any further. Beta, the OP, should have in this thread all he needs for moving forward with a decision.

To recap:

There are several in here that, based on their experience, suggest that with the gear listed there is a good chance that upgrading power cords will make a difference. I am among these and I only felt inclined to state my opinion because I have virtually the same gear as the OP and compared directly the Iego cords with the stock ones in CDP, amp, and pre...all of which I found to yield an improvement in clarity. None of us said that yes you definately will experience an improvement in sound, but we collectively indicated that it is well worth your time and money if you have the inclination.

Then there is another camp who relies on "common sense" and "written materials" to declare emphatically that cables will not make a difference.

To the OP: I think that is all of the info you need. You can decide to move forward based on which stance seems more reasonable to you.

Matt34

Erik Tracy wrote: »

Let's 'play out' the AVS 'scientific' posture.

If a person claims they hear a diffference in their system with a cable:
AVS reply: "Well, you didn't level match."

If a person claims to have level matched and still hears a difference:
AVS reply: "Well, you are clearly succumbing to the placebo effect."

If a person even provides an explanation, or even better data(graphs, etc - see DarqueKnights excellent review of a power cable: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88538)
AVS reply: "This is not science, this is techno babble"

And then the last trump is the old double-blind bluff where the final AVS 'call' is "Oh yeah, betcha can't identify your cable in a double blind test."

Sure seems to me that irregardless of any discussion - it is the AVS unbelievers who have already made up their minds and have closed them as well.

Odd - that sure doesn't seem in keeping with the spirit of scientific discovery thru direct observation.

Me? I didn't make up my mind by being a link lemming....I kept my mind and ears opened and tried for myself and....gasp....I could actually hear a difference...for the better.

While DarqueKnight's review is well thought out and deliberate, it is still a subjective review with some objective data. The listening tests were his sighted opinions i.e. he knew which cable he was using. Therefore what data he took from the cables cannot honestly be interpreted as audible differences because of sighted bias. If you choose to believe that sighted bias is not a real phenomenon...I don't know what else to say.

However (haha), in the spirit of scientific discovery we have to rule out prejudices and biases, however well-founded they might be, and the only way to do so is through the use of double-blind testing. This requires a lot of complexity and expense, but at least we’ve found out a truth that stands up “when all other things are equal,” which is a cornerstone of scientific method.

I'm going to link something scientific here from a man that probably has forgotten more about this stuff than any of us will ever know; and I'm okay with the fact I am now a "lemming":p.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/dishonesty-of-sighted-audio-product.html

Floyd Toole published a study of this effect[that knowledge colors our perceptions] which found, in a study of loudspeakers, that brand identity was the strongest force affecting perceived audio quality, far stronger than audio performance.

concealer404

This isn't a "science....." It's a hobby based around an art form that elicits emotional enjoyment. What exactly is scientific about that?

Matt34

concealer404 wrote: »

This isn't a "science....." It's a hobby based around an art form that elicits emotional enjoyment. What exactly is scientific about that?

That is what every company’s marketing/sales people would wish for, that's for certain. I'm sure the Lexicon BD player elicited an emotional response from its owners as well when they found out it's a $500 BD player in a fancy $3000 shell.

concealer404

Matt34 wrote: »

That is what every company’s marketing/sales people would wish for, that's for certain. I'm sure the Lexicon BD player elicited an emotional response from its owners as well when they found out it's a $500 BD player in a fancy $3000 shell.

Sure... luckily we usually read each other's opinions and do the research ahead of time to avoid that sort of situation... But it's one thing to use specs as a guideline and then listen to make your decision, quite another to use specs and measurements only and ignore your ears.

Hell, if i relied on science alone for enjoyment, i'd probably be shooting heroin. It's all chemistry, right? No voodoo there.

polkatese

Here's a sure way to test it out:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96308&highlight=mcloki

courtesy of Michael McLoki...

heiney9

polkatese wrote: »

Here's a sure way to test it out:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96308&highlight=mcloki

courtesy of Michael McLoki...

You are missing the point, common sense won't allow some of the naysayers to even consider participating.

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

You are missing the point, common sense won't allow some of the naysayers to even consider participating.

Common sense, like synergy, is a ****.

polkatese

heiney9 wrote: »

You are missing the point, common sense won't allow some of the naysayers to even consider participating.

then...we are back to our SNAFU programming channel.

Matt34

heiney9 wrote: »

You are missing the point, common sense won't allow some of the naysayers to even consider participating.

Common sense with a little bit of audio preceptional knowledge tells me my forthcoming demo with a pair of GR Research Neo N2x speakers will be a much more fulling, productive and enjoyable use of my time than that of a 6ft electrical conductor.:p

zombie boy 2000

heiney9 wrote: »

You are missing the point, common sense won't allow some of the naysayers to even consider participating.

I just wanted to quote Heiney, too.

concealer404

Matt34 wrote: »

Common sense with a little bit of audio preceptional knowledge tells me my forthcoming demo with a pair of GR Research Neo N2x speakers will be a much more fulling, productive and enjoyable use of my time than that of a 6ft electrical conductor.:p

I don't think anyone can really argue against you there. You'll be using your ears.







Oh, and C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERRRRRRR!!!!!!

Matt34

concealer404 wrote: »

I don't think anyone can really argue against you there. You'll be using your ears.







Oh, and C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKERRRRRRR!!!!!!

...and the reason for this demo you ask? They are measureable superior to the current speakers I'm considering to replace them with.;)