What Is "High End" Audio?

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited February 2010
    jaxwired wrote:
    I do believe that the NAD 545 feeding a benchmark DAC is competitive with a very high quality CDP.

    So, what high quality CDP's have you listened to or owned?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2010
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    perhaps one day you can blow a groove over my keys, that would be fun.

    RT1

    That would be fun.

    I love music.:)
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2010
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Some people have spent a fortune on audio gear only to be heartbroken later when they heard a true high end system that they could have had for far less money.

    High end usually means expensive, but expensive does not always mean high end.;)

    PRECISELY my point. Forget the "labels" and buy what puts you in the zone.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    So, what high quality CDP's have you listened to or owned?

    Mayhaps the ERC-1? :o
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited February 2010
    concealer404 wrote: »
    Mayhaps the ERC-1? :o

    Lol... quitcher trolling. ;)
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    vc69 wrote: »
    Lol... quitcher trolling. ;)

    No trolling here, sir! :D Apparently it gets great reviews, and we haven't quite determined yet what he considers high end, so that may be a possibility. :)

    And obviously, i'm in no position to REALLY put that player down. Hell, look what i'm rocking. ;)
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • mini-me
    mini-me Posts: 70
    edited February 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    So, what high quality CDP's have you listened to or owned?
    concealer404 wrote: »
    Mayhaps the ERC-1? :o

    I highly doubt it! ERC-1 is considered High End in my world! :o
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited February 2010
    mini-me wrote: »
    I highly doubt it! Kraco 8-track tapes is considered High End in my world! :o



    fixed it for ya!
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited February 2010
    jaxwired wrote: »
    I wish I could keep arguing, but that would require that someone make a sane, or at least semi-lucid rebuttal to any of my many excellent points. That doesn't seem to happen here... Oh well... It was fun for awhile. Thanks ladies..

    Go play with your NADs. Your points are not excellent. They are lame attempts to just try and argue.

    ...just trolling this thread. Entertaining read.

    I'm still very new to this hobby and never stop being amazed at what one can find. I've heard gear that I expected to sound great sound terrible and gear I expected to sound bad sound fantastic at various price points (based on my preconceived notion of brand quality, price points, etc.) Plus, I don't like the same sound that the next guy might. I think Carver amps suck, but there are clearly plenty of people who like them. I think that Emotiva amps (the giant killer) has the soundstage depth and detail of a cheap AVR and there are MANY alternatives around the same price point.

    I've tried to put together the best sounding 2-channel system to my liking within the money I can afford to spend on the hobby. What that means for me is that the components in my system are the best value to me for the money that I am willing to spend. I've heard my Nak CA-5 preamp that I paid $175 for walk over $2000-$3000 preamps. Does it sound better than ALL preamps?.. Hell no! Not even close.

    I'm simply on an adventure to figure out what is next for me. I'm trying out H9's ADCOM GFP-750 preamp and couldn't be more amazed with how it transformed my rig. I might even try some tubes next! (don't tell the Rockford guys yet, I'm not ready to officially make that decision)

    Aside from rambling and not making much of a point my point is that some people get WAY too wrapped up in being insecure about how much they have spent on their gear (ie. cable haters, Emoettes, this thread) compared to others who have the means to experiement with a wider variety of gear and spend far too little time enjoying what they have and experimenting with other changes within their means.

    I like car analogies... A Corvette ZR1 will kick the **** out of a Ferrari around the Nurburgring at 1/2 the cost, but does it do everything a Ferrari does? Nope... I bet Ferrari drivers get way more chicks.
    HT
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    H/K AVR-247
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2010
    ^^ Hey man don't be knocking Ferrari.............they are the best exotic car on the planet :D. A true "high end" automobile ;)
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited February 2010
    Lowell_M wrote: »
    Go play with your NADs. Your points are not excellent. They are lame attempts to just try and argue.

    ...just trolling this thread. Entertaining read.

    I think Carver amps suck, but there are clearly plenty of people who like them. .

    Blaphsemy!:D

    There are a few Carver amps that I do not like at all, but the 600x2 is a real nice piece.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited February 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ^^ Hey man don't be knocking Ferrari.............they are the best exotic car on the planet :D. A true "high end" automobile ;)

    I'd say World Referrence Class. ;)

    My poorly articulated point was that The ZR1 doesn't do everything that a Farrari does. The interior quality is of no comparison, fit and finish, no contest, etc.

    Of course, I've never driven either one, so how can I make comparisons of the two... right? ooooooohhh...

    I drive a G35 and stepped up from a Z28. So, do I blindly say that the G35 is the best damn car ever because it drives so much better than my Z28? Not even in the same league as the ZR1 of course. Not the same intent in the product anyway regardless of pricepoint. (oops, I digressed to an analogy about Emoettes...sorry)

    ...my point is in there somewhere... I think...
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited February 2010
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Blaphsemy!:D

    There are a few Carver amps that I do not like at all, but the 600x2 is a real nice piece.

    :D I've heard a small handfull of Carver stuff, including a Sunfire something or other and they all were slightly different than the other good and bad. None really even close to inspiring to me so it kind of turned me off to Carver.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2010
    Lowell_M wrote: »
    Go play with your NADs.
    :eek:
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited February 2010
    Lowell_M wrote: »
    :D I've heard a small handfull of Carver stuff, including a Sunfire something or other and they all were slightly different than the other good and bad. None really even close to inspiring to me so it kind of turned me off to Carver.
    If there is interest, perhaps I will bring my Sunfire Stereo Grand Signature 600/2 with me to the next Rockford... assuming I am still invited.


    Wait... was I ever invited:confused:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • moodyman
    moodyman Posts: 45
    edited February 2010
    If amplifier A cost $1,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it and amplifier B cost $10,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it which amp is high end and why??
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited February 2010
    I think the term "hi-end" was probably coined by the master himself...P.T. Barnum!!! Carry on fellas. :rolleyes:
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    If amplifier A cost $1,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it and amplifier B cost $10,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it which amp is high end and why??

    It depends on how each one sounds through all the different criteria. It could be either one, neither or both. If either one falls off in a particular important catagory then it may not be considered high end.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    If amplifier A cost $1,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it and amplifier B cost $10,000 and faithfully reproduces what is put into it which amp is high end and why??

    Let's consider two mail order brides.

    Potential wife #1 costs $1,000 and is a faithful companion in every way except that she will always be on the lookout for something better. She definitely won't cheat but she will flirt with other men and she will drop hints that she can be "taken away" for the right price.

    Potential wife #2 costs $10,000 and is a faithful companion in every way. She will be focused on her husband, home and work. The thought of even flirting with another man, even in jest, would never enter her mind.

    Both women are very attractive physically, and both graduated from nursing school. Also assume that the women are equally desirable with regard to family background and personality compatibility. Potential wife #2 is just a little better looking than #1.

    Which potential wife is "high end" and why?
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited February 2010
    Both sound a high maintenance!:p
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
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    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited February 2010
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Let's consider two mail order brides.

    Potential wife #1 costs $1,000 and is a faithful companion in every way except that she will always be on the lookout for something better. She definitely won't cheat but she will flirt with other men and she will drop hints that she can be "taken away" for the right price.

    Potential wife #2 costs $10,000 and is a faithful companion in every way. She will be focused on her husband, home and work. The thought of even flirting with another man, even in jest, would never enter her mind.

    Both women are very attractive physically, and both graduated from nursing school. Also assume that the women are equally desirable with regard to family background and personality compatibility. Potential wife #2 is just a little better looking than #1.

    Which potential wife is "high end" and why?

    You won't know until you turn them both on.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • mini-me
    mini-me Posts: 70
    edited February 2010
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Let's consider two mail order brides.

    Which potential wife is "high end" and why?

    I can tell you the answer if you let me borrow both of them for side by side Double Blind ABX test. :D
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited February 2010
    CIMG3390.jpg
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited February 2010
    IMG_1137-Copy.jpg
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,420
    edited February 2010
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    CIMG3390.jpg

    I could get HIGH listening to this rig all day long!:cool:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited February 2010
    WOW Larry that pic just gave me a High End woody!
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  • Polkersince85
    Polkersince85 Posts: 2,883
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    WOW Larry that pic just gave me a High End woody!

    Take your reading glasses off and report back.
    >
    >
    >This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.<
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  • MANSKITO
    MANSKITO Posts: 295
    edited February 2010
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Let's consider two mail order brides.

    Potential wife #1 costs $1,000 and is a faithful companion in every way except that she will always be on the lookout for something better. She definitely won't cheat but she will flirt with other men and she will drop hints that she can be "taken away" for the right price.

    Potential wife #2 costs $10,000 and is a faithful companion in every way. She will be focused on her husband, home and work. The thought of even flirting with another man, even in jest, would never enter her mind.

    Both women are very attractive physically, and both graduated from nursing school. Also assume that the women are equally desirable with regard to family background and personality compatibility. Potential wife #2 is just a little better looking than #1.

    Which potential wife is "high end" and why?

    So your saying out of all the potential wifes there are in the world you could not no matter how hard you tried find a wife with equal or better potential then wife #2 for less money? Or are you saying Wife 2 is the high end in that extremely limited system?

    An objects absolute potential is not absolutely determined by the price.

    I don't get what you are saying.
    Monitor 60s, CS10 front
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  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,047
    edited February 2010
    MANSKITO wrote: »
    I don't get what you are saying.

    He's saying your $1000 amp is a **** who's probably got some kind of disease from being mated to gear that is not high end.
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited February 2010
    Jetmaker737 wrote: »
    He's saying your $1000 amp is a **** who's probably got some kind of disease from being mated to gear that is not high end.

    Thanks for the wad of Golden Oreo that is now on my desk.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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