Adcom GFP-555 vs Sony TA-E9000ES

Polk Newbee

Can anyone provide their thoughts on the Adcom GFP-555 pre-amp versus the Sony TA-E9000ES. I currently have the Adcom and use it exclusively for two channel, but could acquire the Sony at a reasonable cost.

My question is will the Sony have a more musical, detailed, cleaner sound than the Adcom? Again, at this point it will be only used in two channel mode and it is paired with an Adcom GFA-555 amplifier.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

cnh

Good question but there are a lot of factors involved here. I am sorry to say that I've never heard that Sony so I can't compare the sound.

Of the Adcoms the GFP-750 is the best and GFP-715 comes in at #2....the 555 pre is at best, passable!

cnh

concealer404

I vote for the Adcom. It was built for 2-channel use, going to be used in 2-channel, and is a very decent sounding pre.

Not to say the Sony will sound BAD, but if it were i in your shoes? Wouldn't bother.

That all said, if you can get the Sony at a cost you can resell at to prevent a loss later if you don't like it, give it a shot.

wutadumsn23

concealer404 wrote: »

I vote for the Adcom. It was built for 2-channel use, going to be used in 2-channel, and is a very decent sounding pre.

Not to say the Sony will sound BAD, but if it were i in your shoes? Wouldn't bother.

That all said, if you can get the Sony at a cost you can resell at to prevent a loss later if you don't like it, give it a shot.

My thoughts exactly. Good luck.

-Jeff

billbillw

That Sony is HIGHLY regarded for its sound, but it was primarily designed for 5.1 operation, so it definitely wouldn't be my top choice for a 2-ch rig. The Sony is also pretty old technology, even for 5.1 operation. It doesn't have any of the newer decoding technologies.

DarqueKnight

Polk Newbee wrote: »

Can anyone provide their thoughts on the Adcom GFP-555 pre-amp versus the Sony TA-E9000ES. I currently have the Adcom and use it exclusively for two channel, but could acquire the Sony at a reasonable cost.

My question is will the Sony have a more musical, detailed, cleaner sound than the Adcom? Again, at this point it will be only used in two channel mode and it is paired with an Adcom GFA-555 amplifier.

I have owned the GFP-555 and the GFP-555 Mk II and I didn't like either of them. I currently own three TA-E9000ES's. One is in my home theater, one is in my master bedroom system and the third, which was used in my home office system until I downsized, is in storage. Although the TA-E9000ES is a home theater preamp, I found it to be superior to the Adcom 555 series preamps in every respect: detail, clarity, build quality, aesthetics, sound staging, etc. The performance of my TA-E9000ES's was further enhanced by removing the captive power cords and replacing them with IEC sockets and higher grade power cords (see figures 7 and 8 of this thread).

You should be award that Sony came out with five firmware revisions for the TA-E9000ES:

1.01A
1.10C
1.18C
2.01C
2.50

Revision 2.01C is the most significant by far and provided substantial improvements in sound quality. The improvements were substantial to the point of being "night and day". Revision 2.01C (the "VUCD-E9000A" upgrade kit) also included a smaller, more useful remote that didn't eat batteries. The stock TA-E9000ES remote was a large, clunky, console type beast that was largely hated by TA-E9000ES enthusiasts. You'll see why if you get one. [Note, you will see revision 2.01C referred to as both "2.01" and "2.01C".]

The firmware version is displayed when the unit is turned on. If a unit you are considering is running an older firmware version, you will need to do the upgrade for best sound quality.

Sony no longer sells the firmware upgrade kit, but the firmware, and a wealth of valuable information, is available for download here and other places around the Internet. If you can't find an upgrade kit with the remote, you will probably want to use the stock remote to program a smaller remote. Sometimes the VUCD-E9000A upgrade kits show up on Audiogon and eBay.

Revision 2.50 only added decoding of MPEG-AAC audio as used by digital satellite broadcasting in Japan...so naturally, most people outside Japan didn't bother with it.

I am attaching a couple of reviews of the TA-E9000ES that you may find useful.

The Nakamichi CA-5 and CA-5AII are also from the same era as the Adcoms and, like the Sony, were much better units in terms of musicality, detail, clarity and even build quality and aesthetics. I still use a CA-5AII in my rig at work.

lanchile

Polk Newbee wrote: »

Can anyone provide their thoughts on the Adcom GFP-555 pre-amp versus the Sony TA-E9000ES. I currently have the Adcom and use it exclusively for two channel, but could acquire the Sony at a reasonable cost.

My question is will the Sony have a more musical, detailed, cleaner sound than the Adcom? Again, at this point it will be only used in two channel mode and it is paired with an Adcom GFA-555 amplifier.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

My vote goes to ADCOM!;)

danz1906

Adcom,,,Keep your 555 or get a 750 pre-amp.

DarqueKnight

billbillw wrote: »

That Sony is HIGHLY regarded for its sound, but it was primarily designed for 5.1 operation, so it definitely wouldn't be my top choice for a 2-ch rig. The Sony is also pretty old technology, even for 5.1 operation. It doesn't have any of the newer decoding technologies.

I thought the TA-E9000ES in my home theater system would certainly be replaced during the last upgrade cycle...but I couldn't find anything comparable that wasn't prohibitively expensive or didn't have serviceability and/or build quality issues. My Blu-ray player has all the newer decoding technologies, but the TA-E9000ES does not have analog 5.1 inputs. However, that deficiency was remedied by scrounging around for the TA-P9000ES 5.1 analog preamp, which is the companion piece for the TA-E9000ES (discussion starting after figure 14 of this thread).

Polk Newbee

DarqueKnight, You are not helping me resist the urge to send $$$$ on vintage gear, but I appreciate your and the rest of the groups inputs on the TA-E9000ES.

PS. I lost the fight tonight and purchased one locally via CL. I only got to listen to it for a few minutes, but I like what I hear so far. I can't wait to listen to it somemore and do some comparison to the Adcom. Thanks Again.

mjcmt

I've owned an older Adcom pre and it was terrible. I've read good comments on the Sony.

concealer404

mjcmt wrote: »

I've owned an older Adcom pre and it was terrible. I've read good comments on the Sony.

The older entry-level Adcom Pres do sound terrible with similar level Adcom amps. Notice i was pretty specific there.

chandler9a

I listen to both the Sony TA- E9000ES and the Adcom GFP-555 quite often and I have to agree with Darqueknight on this one. While the Adcom is very nice for two channel btu the Sony is better for my ear, the clarity and definition is outstanding. If you don't like it you can easily sell it. Have fun!

mjcmt

concealer404 wrote: »

The older entry-level Adcom Pres do sound terrible with similar level Adcom amps. Notice i was pretty specific there.

Yes you were specific. I was just infering that the pre I had was so horrible I never wanted another of theirs again. Even the venerable Adcom 750 pre has mixed reviews from owners. I thought my experience might reflect their current preamps as well. Just my experience and 2 cents.

heiney9

mjcmt wrote: »

Yes you were specific. I was just infering that the pre I had was so horrible I never wanted another of theirs again. Even the venerable Adcom 750 pre has mixed reviews from owners. I thought my experience might reflect their current preamps as well. Just my experience and 2 cents.

The 750 is an outstanding pre-amp, but if dead neutral sound isn't your bag and your source isn't up to it, then I could see some not prefering it.

As to the bolded part the 750 is superb and the 715 isn't a slouch for those on more of a budget. The earlier pre's were not all that great as you seem to have experienced.

H9

mjcmt

Heiney9,
I see you own a Aleph 30. Had one for a while w/ the AES DJH tube pre and Cary CD308 cdp. It was an amazing combo and one of my best systems.
I know we all have different listening experiences and criteria. I was considering the 750 for a short time w/ my Pass, but loved the synergy it had w/ a tube pre. Anyway, reviews on the 750 on AudioAsylum are less than glowing, but these folks can be a bit snobby.

heiney9

The Aleph with the 750 is a superb combo. The 750 is essentially a Pass Aleph P pre-amp with a few lesser parts to keep the cost down. The Aleph P is sonically a little better but at twice the cost.

I use a Dared SL2000A tube line-stage class A pre-amp with 1945 Mullard 5Z4G rectifier and a pair of either 1959 Valvo 12AT7's made in Hamburg or 1964 Telefunken ECC801S and they are excellent together. Hands down my best system. I have been running the Dared thru the HT bypass on the 750 so I can run either or dependign on what I feel like.

The only way my Aleph leaves is when I move up the Pass chain to an X series amp. It's one of the purest, most musically right and pleasing amps I have ever heard. I rarely agree with those at Audio Asylum and you don't get to be on Stereophile's class A list if you don;t have the goods to back it up.

I encourage you to try a 750 for yourself if you ever get a chance. Not even in the same league as other Adcom pre's.

Anyway a little off topic

H9

DarqueKnight

mjcmt wrote: »

...reviews on the 750 on AudioAsylum are less than glowing, but these folks can be a bit snobby.

I have no doubt that if the GFP-750 offered the same electronics in a nicer, higher-end looking case and was offered at twice the price, it would have been more accepted by more "high enders".

Another thing to consider is that, at the introduction of the GFP-750, Adcom received a run of bad parts that caused a lot of product failures and ill will. Therefore, a lot of the reviews from 2000-2001 are bad.

I used two GFP-750's in two different rigs and I was thrilled with both of them. It is interesting to note that the GFP-750 was more often compared to preamps costing many multiples over its $1,400 price, rather than to other $1,200 to $1,400 preamps. In my two channel rig, I replaced the GFP-750 with a Pass Labs X-1 ($5,600) and then went on to replace the X-1 with a Pass Labs X0.2 ($10,000). The X-1 was a more resolving piece, but the GFP-750 was not "shamed" by it. At its average used market price of $650, it is a tremendous high performance bargain.

I still think very highly of the GFP-750. It's reputation as a true "giant killer" is well deserved.

mjcmt

heiney9 wrote: »

I rarely agree with those at Audio Asylum

This is where we differ. My experience tells me otherwise.

Circuit design and parts selection plays a part in making it lesser than the Aleph P. I was interested back on '01-'03 and I move on to others, so I may not get a chance to try out the 750. My interest came and went. Thanks for your input H9.

heiney9

Straight from Nelson's mouth

The GFP-750 is a Nelson Pass design—essentially a variation on the Pass Labs Aleph P and Pass's DIY project, The Son of the Bride of Zen (footnote 2). The circuit couldn't be simpler. Says Pass, "It's a differential pair—the end. A single gain stage, balanced input, balanced output, no feedback....We took a pair of MOSFETs, and the inputs go to the gates of the MOSFETs. The MOSFET sources are tied together and biased with a current source, with the signal taken off the drains. [The circuit] can run unbalanced on either side, although the performance is best when it's run balanced."

I have no doubt the Alpeh P is a bit more transparent and uses better parts and in the end is the better performing piece, but they are essentially the same design and both sound superb. Not sure you or I could tell a difference A/B'ing. I want to compare the two someday but probably not worth the extra $2000-2500 to find a used Aleph P to compare.

H9

Polk Newbee

chandler9a wrote: »

I listen to both the Sony TA- E9000ES and the Adcom GFP-555 quite often and I have to agree with Darqueknight on this one. While the Adcom is very nice for two channel btu the Sony is better for my ear, the clarity and definition is outstanding. If you don't like it you can easily sell it. Have fun!

After doing a/b comparisons between the Adcom and the newly acquired TA-E9000ES (had to update to software version 2.01), I must agree that the Sony (two channel mode) sounds better than the Adcom. The Sony appears to have better clarity and a more three dimensional soundstage than the Adcom (at least to my ears).

Thanks for all of the advice - I couldn't be happier with my recent purchase.

dorokusai

That's one of the best Sony pre-amps I've heard and I'd choose it over the Adcom.

heiney9

Polk Newbee wrote: »

After doing a/b comparisons between the Adcom and the newly acquired TA-E9000ES (had to update to software version 2.01), I must agree that the Sony (two channel mode) sounds better than the Adcom. The Sony appears to have better clarity and a more three dimensional soundstage than the Adcom (at least to my ears).

Thanks for all of the advice - I couldn't be happier with my recent purchase.

No surprise there as the GFP-555 has always been and always will be a mediocre pre-amp.

Here's an interesting read and yes it's old and doesn't have the Sony referenced in it, but someone took the time to analyze some of the "mid-fi" pre's that came out in the 90's. Including the GFP-565 a close cousin to the GFP-555.

www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_18_r.pdf

H9

mantis

I have worked with both Adcom and Sony. Many turn there noses up at the Sony because of the name and Sony isn't considered a high end 2 channel preamp but I have found the 9000es to sound as good as the B&K ref30 way back in the day. I have done extensive shoot outs
The Sony is a amazing sounding preamp. There matching amp is also amazing. I Installed it a few times and thought "this is a SONY???" WOW the clarity and dyanamics of this combo. Very very good sounding gear.

Already owning the Adcom which is an amazing preamp in it's own right also has a very very good sound or lack there of if you will. They have a level of detail comparable to all others in it's class. There is nothing wrong with Adcom preamps or anything they ever made that I have Installed. I love there stuff.

I'm just wondering why you want to use a theater preamp for 2 channel use only? The deal is steering you? Have you even heard one before? I assume not.

You can't go wrong with it as it's damn neutral and clear as a bell. You will not be let down by no means but you already have a nice preamp. Maybe there is some other place your system is lacking that might make more sense to upgrade?

mjcmt

heiney9 wrote: »

Straight from Nelson's mouth

The GFP-750 is a Nelson Pass design—essentially a variation on the Pass Labs Aleph P and Pass's DIY project, The Son of the Bride of Zen (footnote 2). The circuit couldn't be simpler. Says Pass, "It's a differential pair—the end. A single gain stage, balanced input, balanced output, no feedback....We took a pair of MOSFETs, and the inputs go to the gates of the MOSFETs. The MOSFET sources are tied together and biased with a current source, with the signal taken off the drains. [The circuit] can run unbalanced on either side, although the performance is best when it's run balanced."

This is what Nelson says in DIY Audio about GFP-750:
"Just for the record, I licensed the circuit to Adcom (before the ownership change) but am not otherwise involved. I haven't seen inside the unit, and don't have the schematic, so I can't be helpful here."
"Supposedly being the same circuit as BSOZ"

This potentially does not mean it is like an Aleph P, and Adcom's implementation of the circuit design, P/S and parts is another factor as well. Other have said it is not like the P, but more similar to the L but not the same either.

heiney9

Well, I'm not going to argue with you as it's not really like the Aleph "L" at all. The Aleph L has a very unique gain feature as part of it's output pot.

I never said it was just like the Aleph P (as in exactly) but a very close variation of the P and the BOZ. (as stated in the quote from the Stereophile article)

Here' some further reading if anyone is so inclined:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/37960-replacing-adcom-gfp750-caps.html

Pay close attention to post #25 and 26

heiney9

Here's why the Aleph L (1.1 only) is nothing like the Adcom or any other pre for that matter.

The most original feature of this preamplifier, never duplicated or imitated by anyone else, including Pass Labs themselves, is its automatic Passive/Active signal routing. If the audio system doesn't need more gain than the signal source provides, the Pass will not further amplify the signal. This is achieved by a unique volume control.

The volume control operates passively up until 3:00, and after that it is active. The change between passive, and active, is automatic. Most of the time the volume control will operate below 3:00, which means the Aleph L is, in effect, a high-quality passive preamp, which will always outperform any active design if there isn't an impedance/sensitivity mismatch. Above 3:00, the Pass automatically becomes active. It then slightly dries out the sound, while also adding a thin veil. That's excellent performance, but not outstanding for an active preamplifier.

At exactly 3:00, in another innovative design feature, the preamp even removes the volume control itself from the signal path, making it as pure and simple as technically possible, with the single exception of a direct connection. The end result is a preamplifier that will compare with the finest passive units ever made, while still offering up to 10 dB of high quality gain if still required.

H9

heiney9

In 1999 Nelson knew exactly what the circuit was and in 2004 he no longer remembered or chose to remember. By you quoting what he said in his DIY post doesn't discount what was said when the product was released. Unless Stereophile made things up.

I agree the Aleph P is a slightly better pre just based on the minor changes made to the 750 for cost cutting reasons. But in reality it's a very close cousin to the Aleph P, but not identical.

Think of it as a fraternal twin vs. an identical twin. I've had my say on the matter and it seems the OP has made the better choice in going w/ the Sony over the Adcom GFP-555 so the matter is settled.

H9