Over the speed limit by 35 mph? Pay fine of $300K
Comments
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JohnLocke88 wrote: »Hold on to your hats and glasses boys and girls; If you think this can't happen in America, you may be in for a rude awakening. A wealth tax may in it's current form be unconstitutional, but the estate tax sets a very dangerous precedent for these matters.
No sympathy for the speed junky, but at the same time, VERY slippery slope.
Under Pete Wilson, early to mid nineties I believe.
There is something called a "luxury tax" in the US. Its something they will tack onto things like yachts over a certain length, ect that only the super rich can afford. It something that is done but not a ton of people do really know about it. For the super rich its more of an annoyance, and its like well if you can afford a couple million for the boat why not get some more.
I understand the point the Swiss are trying to make, they want to make the person think about doing something wrong before they do it, and well if you can end up getting a pretty big fine, then it'll be a great deterrent.
I do think its kinda ridiculous in some ways because if you would just take away his license you can then take him to court ect for driving without one, which I think would be easier than handing out a ticket for a sum like that. He'll mostly likely fight it some way or the other, as I don't know how the legal system works in the country but he probably won't take it. Also the collection of the funds might be hard because I'm sure he won't just want to dish out that cash so fast. -
You obviously don't know much about high performance cars.
Seriously? How are the brakes going to help him when he already has traveled the distance his brakes would have saved him? That Testarossa still isn't going to break the laws of physics.
Going 85mph on the highway is one thing but on European city where pedestrians are everywhere is another. I don't know if this in the middle of the night with no people (except police) on sight or not but he knew the punishment. -
There is something called a "luxury tax" in the US. Its something they will tack onto things like yachts over a certain length, ect that only the super rich can afford. It something that is done but not a ton of people do really know about it. For the super rich its more of an annoyance, and its like well if you can afford a couple million for the boat why not get some more.
I understand the point the Swiss are trying to make, they want to make the person think about doing something wrong before they do it, and well if you can end up getting a pretty big fine, then it'll be a great deterrent.
I do think its kinda ridiculous in some ways because if you would just take away his license you can then take him to court ect for driving without one, which I think would be easier than handing out a ticket for a sum like that. He'll mostly likely fight it some way or the other, as I don't know how the legal system works in the country but he probably won't take it. Also the collection of the funds might be hard because I'm sure he won't just want to dish out that cash so fast.
I know what you're talking about, but it's a perverted form of a sales tax. In this case, the person is being PUNISHED proportional to his wealth. There is a significant difference. -
Interesting take on it. So lets move that thought elsewhere. You pay 100 bucks for license plates now,just an example, you would have no problem paying 500 because maybe you could afford it?
Paying for license plates is not a punishment for breaking the law.You and your buddy park in a no parking zone. Your ticket is 300 and his is 20 bucks...no problem with that ?
If he makes $20k a year and I make $300k, I might not have a problem. Although parking violations are not actions that endanger lives and as such are not subject to fines per income/wealth.You get a ticket for jaywalking, your neighbor does too since your walking together, your ticket is 200 and his is 10 bucks. Seems fair.
See above.You go in the hospital for kidney stones, your bill,because you could afford it, is 20 grand, the person next to you,same thing, pays 200 bucks. Yeah, thats fair.
See the comment on license plates.In all those scenario's, who makes out ? Where is the motivation to make more money as long as there are enough of those " WHO COULD AFFORD IT" to cover your butt ?
If you're talking strictly about the "IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT", then ignore the following...
Either you are missing the point or you don't agree with it. Speeding fines based on income/wealth only apply when it is excessive speeding. They are designed to hurt you financially so you are not tempted to do it again. Other option of course would be to give you some jail time, which would be equal punishment whether you're wealthy or not. Minor speeding violations and parking tickets are regular fines and they are the same for everyone. -
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Paying for license plates is not a punishment for breaking the law.
If he makes $20k a year and I make $300k, I might not have a problem. Although parking violations are not actions that endanger lives and as such are not subject to fines per income/wealth.
See above.
See the comment on license plates.
If you're talking strictly about the "IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT", then ignore the following...
Either you are missing the point or you don't agree with it. Speeding fines based on income/wealth only apply when it is excessive speeding. They are designed to hurt you financially so you are not tempted to do it again. Other option of course would be to give you some jail time, which would be equal punishment whether you're wealthy or not. Minor speeding violations and parking tickets are regular fines and they are the same for everyone.
I think you've missed Tony's whole point . . . where does it end?If he makes $20k a year and I make $300k, I might not have a problem. Although parking violations are not actions that endanger lives and as such are not subject to fines per income/wealth.Minor speeding violations and parking tickets are regular fines and they are the same for everyone.
BTW "Minor Speeding" endangers lives also. So where does it end? -
wingnut4772 wrote: »Socialism.
Exactly Darla! -
35 MPH over the speed limit is 35 MPH over the speed limit whether you're monetarily 'rich' or 'poor'. These fines are not really a deterrent for anyone. While safety is certainly something law enforcement wants to get across, it's also a way for the government to bring in additional revenue to a given municipality. As the offenses begin to stack up, the penalties get worse, and that's as it should be. Here, 35 MPH over the speed limit would probably get you a reckless driving charge on top of the speeding ticket.
This is outright socialism and even though this happened in Europe where socialism has been running rampant for years, it's sad to watch Americans even thinking that stuff like this is OK.
Maybe 'rich' people should face potentially longer prison sentences for crimes than 'poor' people since they can afford better lawyers. :rolleyes: -
hearingimpared wrote: »BTW "Minor Speeding" endangers lives also. So where does it end?
If you want to look at it that way then driving by itself also endangers lives. Where does it end, well, it ends at certain speed. You don't have fines based on wealth on minor offenses so that does answer your question.
As an alternative for harsher fines based on income is jail time as small fines for millionaires have no effect. -
Maybe 'rich' people should face potentially longer prison sentences for crimes than 'poor' people since they can afford better lawyers. :rolleyes:
Nope, for two reasons:
1) Time is money and for rich people it's usually at higher rate per hour
2) Rich people don't get anymore time on this earth than us poor people
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If you want to look at it that way then driving by itself also endangers lives. Where does it end, well, it ends at certain speed. You don't have fines based on wealth on minor offenses so that does answer your question.
As an alternative for harsher fines based on income is jail time as small fines for millionaires have no effect.
So you are prejudiced against people who break their butts and know how to make money. Joe Stalin felt the same way except he kept all the money. I'm poor and I think your reasoning is goofey. -
If you think that you are above the law, that's fine, you are free to do so, but don't whine about the consequences (maybe this guy didn't).
There would probably be less excessive ways to get this particular message accross to repeat offenders who are wealthy and who choose to ignore the laws that apply to common mortals like the rest of us, and many European countries would suspend his license for several months (since it has been mentioned), or longer (it's even a serious felony in some countries). I'm actually surprised if Switzerland doesn't have such a provision for suspending his driving privileges.
I'm not convinced it qualifies as socialism, however, since that would require an unavoidable tax on the rich to give to the poor. This "tax" was totally avoidable, and the driver knew it beforehand.Alea jacta est! -
No, you're wrong. This is a punishment for a crime and it is designed to hurt equally regardless of wealth.hearingimpared wrote: »So you are prejudiced against people who break their butts and know how to make money. Joe Stalin felt the same way except he kept all the money. I'm poor and I think your reasoning is goofey. -
Interesting way of punishment allright, is it fair? hmm..... not sure if I agree or disagree with this approach. will it work as a deterrent? probally not if 300k is the same to him as $30.00 is to us or whatever the fine would be for someone of average wealth. Most speeders continue to speed until their insurance gets too costly or they lose their license or suffer jail time.
It seems part of this huge fine was due to him being a repeat offender so unless the fines continue to rise until it "really hurts him" I doubt he will stop. Also I wonder if he would be levied the same penaltys if he hired a driver and his driver was caught speeding in the car owned by the rich man?
Some states allready charge a value of automobile fee for new tags. Is that socialism also?
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
Seriously? How are the brakes going to help him when he already has traveled the distance his brakes would have saved him? That Testarossa still isn't going to break the laws of physics.
Car A is a high performance sports car and can brake from 100-0 in 5 seconds.
Car B is a standard 4 door sedan and can brake from 50-0 in 10 seconds.
Car A is traveling at 100mph, while Car B is traveling at 50mph. Braking from the same spot, which car will stop first?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Car A is a high performance sports car and can brake from 100-0 in 5 seconds.
Car B is a standard 4 door sedan and can brake from 50-0 in 10 seconds.
Car A is traveling at 100mph, while Car B is traveling at 50mph. Braking from the same spot, which car will stop first?
In distance or time? Are we assuming a linear rate of deceleration?
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You might also want to factor in whether car A lightly applied his brakes and whether car B slammed on his brakesJohnLocke88 wrote: »In distance or time? Are we assuming a linear rate of deceleration?
I know im a smartass :eek:
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
You might also want to factor in whether car A lightly applied his brakes and whether car B slammed on his brakes
I know im a smartass :eek:
REGARDS SNOW
What are our frictional coefficients? Is car A on an icy road and car B on a dry road? Do both cars begin braking at the same time? -
What is the condition of the tires on both cars bald versus full tread? and are the brands and tire patterns the same?JohnLocke88 wrote: »What are our frictional coefficients? Is car A on an icy road and car B on a dry road? Do both cars begin braking at the same time?
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
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As an alternative for harsher fines based on income is jail time as small fines for millionaires have no effect.
I agree with this. This is just like many laws already in place.
Think Paris Hilton with her DUI, etc, etc. A paltry fine wouldn't hurt her. Hell even loss of her license wouldn't as she would just have a driver. But jail time??? Man that was the top story for weeks-talk about family embarrassment. I think that showed that even high profile celebs aren't above the law, and I'll bet other celebs took note.
The laws also carry minimum and maximums. Whether that be for fines or jail time. And that applies to all kinds of laws, even down to littering and parking violations. Its up to the judge to determine how much $$ or time the violator has to incur. Yu have to also consider the actual speed, not just how high over the speed limit (of course it depends on the road but sometimes its way under rated just because people complained enough). Going 35 over the 25 mph limits is just 60 mph. That's not really that rediculously fast. As a matter of fact on a highway it can feel like a crawl. But I understand that on some roads that would be an insane speed.
Personally I think some of the US Laws are lax on the max fines that can be imposed - such as a max fine of $25K or up to 5 years imprisonment for selling DoD Classified information to foreign govts, etc. I don't think that's enough of a deterrent relative to the crime.
As for the $300K fine and basing it on the assessed worth of the violator--that's BS. There should be a max fine. And depending on the location of the violation, perhaps jail time or better yet community service. Make the guy publicly speak at schools on the dangers of driving recklessly and such.
Kind of, in an odd way, reminds me of the way taxes used to be calculated on homes in the US way back when--based on how many window panes the house had. Because the more windows you had the more money you apparently had. But its also not really any different than property taxes. Granted they vary from state to state and even county to county, but the more your house/property is valued (assessed), the more you pay in taxes. And a large amount of those taxes (at least in PA) are school taxes, and it doesn't matter whether you do, did, never did or never will have any children in school, public or private, you still pay them-and the more you have the more you pay. The more you make the higher tax bracket, and again the more you pay.
Recently, locally a teen was driving about 20mph over the speed limit (I think it was 45), and playing games let go of the wheel--I'm not sure what happened, but he lost control and two brothers died as a result. Others in the car were injured, but the driver was fine (or something). Everybody made the biggest deal about the 20mph over being a major factor. I don't know about that. I think this happened on a highway and no alc or drugs involved. So 65mph? I can let go of my wheel at 65 and nothing crazy happens. If my car starts to swerve(sp?) its easily correctable. I'm pretty sure that's just those opposed to increasing speed limits making that a big deal.
anyway enough of my rambling on.....;)____________________
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Car A is a high performance sports car and can brake from 100-0 in 5 seconds.
Car B is a standard 4 door sedan and can brake from 50-0 in 10 seconds.
Car A is traveling at 100mph, while Car B is traveling at 50mph. Braking from the same spot, which car will stop first?
A car at 100mph is traveling 44.4 m/s, 50mph = 22.2 m/s.
d = 0.5 * (v1 - v2) * t
->
A: 0.5 * 44.4 * 5 = 111m
B: 0.5 * 22.2 * 10 = 111m
Add in the 2 second delay (reaction time and brake apply):
A: 111 + 2 * 44.4 = 199.8m
B: 111+ 2 * 22.2= 155.4m -
Car A stops first, 5 seconds before Car B does.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Car A stops first, 5 seconds before Car B does.
In time but in distance car B stops first. 50 meters before car A which I am sure the pedestrian would be very happy if (s)he was standing at the 175m mark. -
Dude, there's something wrong with the way you think.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Dude, there's something wrong with the way you think.
No, you just forgot the all important reaction time which will cost you a lot of distance at high speeds. -
Why would you think the reaction time of Car A's driver would be any slower than that of Car B's driver and even it was, he's got a 5 second advantage.
Note: they both brake from the same spot.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If you look at the calculation you can see the reaction time is the same for both drivers, it's the initial speed that adds up to the total distance.
From the time driver A notices danger and reacts to it and is able to floor the brakes, he and his vehicle have traveled:
44.4m/s * 2s = 88.8m
Driver B on the other hand has traveled:
22.2m/s * 2s = 44.4m -
If it takes Car B twice as long to stop, it's going to travel further.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If it takes Car B twice as long to stop, it's going to travel further.
Let me ask you this, what is the formula for distance traveled? -
Jesse... his calculations are correct, much as i don't agree with the 2 second reaction time.
If you take out the 2 second reaction time, they will both stop in the same distance, but not in the same time, referring back to your original Car A traveling 100mph can stop in 5 seconds, Car B traveling 50 can stop from there in 10 seconds.
But it's the reaction time that makes the difference. A full 2 seconds is the reaction time of a slug that shouldn't be behind the wheel, but you could really throw any number in there as an example.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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