Is it REALLY worth it?

Demiurge

snow wrote: »

Also Just because it may not be Scientifically proved that a certain speaker cable sounds better and the reasons why than another doesnt make it any less true, there are a lot of things out there that science hasnt proved, that doesnt make it not exist.


REGARDS SNOW

I accept that.

The opposite is also true. We're still just expressing our opinions based on our own experiences that may not necessarily reflect reality. This, of course, goes both ways.

inspiredsports

snow wrote: »

Actually I think this disscussion would be far more interesting if were arguing the merits of ****, little ****, big ****, round ****, pear shaped ****, firm ****, saggy ****, puffy ****, Fake **** etc.

Perhaps I should start a thread and even take a poll on the many variations of **** and why we all love and or hate them :eek::D:p



REGARDS SNOW

All female **** are alright by me. Man ****, not so good.

DarqueKnight

snow wrote: »

I think that if for example you have bought the best sounding speakers to your ears at any price and the best preamp and the best SACD player Turntable etc and the only way you could improve on the quality of sound was to buy expensive speaker cables to get that extra 1% to 5% you would be willing to do so and it would be worth it to you if you could hear the difference.

Yeah, unfortunately for my wallet...I found that one thing lead to another.:(

The succession of speaker cables (with retail prices) I have used from 2001 to the present is as follows:

1. DSR Silverline, $105 for a 10 foot pair.
2. Monster Cable Z2 Reference, $200 for a 10 foot pair.
3. Monster Cable Z3 Reference, $300 for a 10 foot pair.
4. PS Audio Xtream Reference, $800 for a 10 foot pair.
5. AudioQuest Volcano, $3,300 for an 8 foot pair.
6. AudioQuest Everest, $11,700 for an 8 foot pair.

The substantial increases in speaker cable costs coincide with some substantial upgrades in audio equipment.

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Yeah, unfortunately for my wallet...I found that one thing lead to another.:(

The succession of speaker cables (with retail prices) I have used from 2001 to the present is as follows:

1. DSR Silverline, $105 for a 10 foot pair.
2. Monster Cable Z2 Reference, $200 for a 10 foot pair.
3. Monster Cable Z3 Reference, $300 for a 10 foot pair.
4. PS Audio Xtream Reference, $800 for a 10 foot pair.
5. AudioQuest Volcano, $3,300 for an 8 foot pair.
6. AudioQuest Everest, $11,700 for an 8 foot pair.

The substantial increases in speaker cable costs coincide with some substantial upgrades in audio equipment.

Thanks for sharing your experience Ray.

snow

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Yeah, unfortunately for my wallet...I found that one thing lead to another.:(

The succession of speaker cables (with retail prices) I have used from 2001 to the present is as follows:

1. DSR Silverline, $105 for a 10 foot pair.
2. Monster Cable Z2 Reference, $200 for a 10 foot pair.
3. Monster Cable Z3 Reference, $300 for a 10 foot pair.
4. PS Audio Xtream Reference, $800 for a 10 foot pair.
5. AudioQuest Volcano, $3,300 for an 8 foot pair.
6. AudioQuest Everest, $11,700 for an 8 foot pair.

The substantial increases in speaker cable costs coincide with some substantial upgrades in audio equipment.

Well I think you should have John over for a listening session and have him bring over his $30.00 speaker cables to compare and see if he can hear a difference...... on second thought no scratch that idea, then you would be guilty of trying to convince him of something he cant hear anyhow



REGARDS SNOW

shack

I have never been a big fan of Nordost...regardless of the price.

hearingimpared

snow wrote: »

Well I think you should have John over for a listening session and have him bring over his $30.00 speaker cables to compare and see if he can hear a difference...... on second thought no scratch that idea, then you would be guilty of trying to convince him of something he cant hear anyhow



REGARDS SNOW

oooooo low blow!:p:D

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

oooooo low blow!:p:D

Yea now I will be a douchebag or something, oh well cant please everyone.



REGARDS SNOW

DarqueKnight

snow wrote: »

Well I think you should have John over for a listening session and have him bring over his $30.00 speaker cables to compare and see if he can hear a difference...... on second thought no scratch that idea, then you would be guilty of trying to convince him of something he cant hear anyhow

John is welcome to stop by. There won't be any "hard sell" or "arm twisting" at all. I still have all my old speaker cables, except for the AQ Volcanos. I can demonstrate the differences in imaging, detail, sound stage size, etc. as I went up in cable quality.:)

snow wrote: »

...then you would be guilty of trying to convince him of something he cant hear anyhow

This reminds me of a conversation F1nut and I had shortly after I received RD0198 replacement tweeters for my 1.2TL's. He advised me give them about 50 hours to break in because they sound a little grainy at first. I didn't hear any graininess at all.

It wasn't until later in the week when I played some music with female vocals that I heard the graininess. I listen mostly to instrumental jazz and the initial graniness of the RD0198 was not apparent with the music I listened to at first.

This brings up another point: Aside from individual differences in hearing response, the type of music you listen to and how it was recorded can also affect whether differences among cables are discernable.

treitz3

Damn, you sound like me. I still have all but one of the cables I have used in my audio journey. Why in the hell are we keeping them?

DarqueKnight

I'll sell gear that I am not using and don't expect to use in the future. I imposed a "no hoarding" rule on myself in 2006.

Cables are exempt from the "no hoarding" rule because I know I'll need them in the future due to a reconfiguration of one of my secondary systems or setting up a new secondary system or for break in or test and evaluation purposes.

I sold the Volcano speaker cables because I received an offer I couldn't refuse, otherwise, they'd still be here.

vc69

halo71 wrote: »

Again, its not that hard to understand. Maybe I should have titled this thread "Is ANY $3000 cable better than ANY $300 cable".

Maybe you should have. I was under the impression speaker cables were being discussed.

Good grief.

heiney9 wrote: »

You are correct on the first part, but not on the second. I use a Wireless router to transmit my music from my PC to the Squeezebox which is then hardwired to my rig. So yes, you can transmit full spectrum music wirelessly.

H9

That is a digital bitstream. Not even close to a full bandwidth analog signal. No similarity at all. LoL

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

This reminds me of a conversation F1nut and I had shortly after I received RD0198 replacement tweeters for my 1.2TL's. He advised me give them about 50 hours to break in because they sound a little grainy at first. I didn't hear any graininess at all.

That's funny. When I first installed my RD0198s they sounded hollow to me. I called Jesse and he told me that hollow was a good way to put it but to look out for some grainyness in certain vocals until the new tweeters broke-in.

After about 100 hours there was no trace of hollow sound or grainyness.

halo71

vc69 wrote: »

Maybe you should have. I was under the impression speaker cables were being discussed.

Good grief.

Yeah, I see you still don't get the corelation between the two different types of cables, their quality etc. And the fact that "some" cables (guitar, speaker, electrical etc.) may be actually made in the same facility. But branded differently and priced differently. I am done in this thread.

"Good grief" is right.

hearingimpared

halo71 wrote: »

Yeah, I see you still don't get the corelation between the two different types of cables, their quality etc. And the fact that "some" cables (guitar, speaker, electrical etc.) may be actually made in the same facility. But branded differently and priced differently. I am done in this thread.

"Good grief" is right.

Don't give up so easily. This thread is just starting to get interesting.

inspiredsports

hearingimpared wrote: »

Don't give up so easily. This thread is just starting to get interesting.

Yep, it's just starting to hit its stride as cable threads go.

vc69

halo71 wrote: »

Yeah, I see you still don't get the corelation between the two different types of cables, their quality etc. And the fact that "some" cables (guitar, speaker, electrical etc.) may be actually made in the same facility. But branded differently and priced differently. I am done in this thread.

"Good grief" is right.

This isn't my first cable rodeo Halo71.
:rolleyes:
I don't think you understand the difference between cables' construction properties based on the signal they are intended to carry.

Maybe I missed your point, but only because you didn't make it very well.

inspiredsports wrote: »

Yep, it's just starting to hit its stride as cable threads go.

I'm just along for the ride

halo71

Okay I lied.

vc69, I don't care if you are the cowboy on the horse or the clown running around at the "cable rodeo". What I said about guitar cables and speaker cables had NOTHING to do with what signals they carry. Or what they are made of. ALL it had to do with was the corelation between cheap cables and expensive cables nothing more.

No matter if they are designed to carry 1 volt of electricity or if they carry super secret squirrel stuff for James Bond. Every cable has a cheap and expensive level. Nothing more nothing less.

vc69

halo71 wrote: »

Okay I lied.

Gotcha!:p

halo71

vc69 wrote: »

Gotcha!:p

"Lied" as in....done with this thread.

Zitro

DarqueKnight wrote: »

John is welcome to stop by. There won't be any "hard sell" or "arm twisting" at all. I still have all my old speaker cables, except for the AQ Volcanos. I can demonstrate the differences in imaging, detail, sound stage size, etc. as I went up in cable quality.:)

treitz3 wrote: »

Damn, you sound like me. I still have all but one of the cables I have used in my audio journey. Why in the hell are we keeping them?

Damn, you guys keep all your cable? Anyone want to sell a poor college student a pair to show him good cables make a difference? lol

Sherardp

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I think it's great that there are cables that accomodate all lifestyles and budgets.

I agree with DK's thoughts. Even if the money is no issue I still wouldn't blow 3k on cables. Just can't see it or hear it for that matter.

inspiredsports

Sherardp wrote: »

I agree with DK's thoughts. Even if the money is no issue I still wouldn't blow 3k on cables. Just can't see it or hear it for that matter.

Your quote above seems to shows you only "selectively" agree with DK. It doesn't appear that you agree with his decision to have invested over 16K in cables.

I'm at that over 4K rung right now and am always looking for the next rung on the ladder. Money IS an issue for me, but the rewards are more than worth it. I would term it an "investment" rather than "blowing money".

I've also kept 2 old favorite sets of speakers cables, including my first (1986) set of Monst's to remind myself what it's like to listen to music with cotton balls in your ears.

hearingimpared

Sherardp wrote: »

I agree with DK's thoughts. Even if the money is no issue I still wouldn't blow 3k on cables. Just can't see it or hear it for that matter.

I think you missed his post Bro where he purchased on set for $3,300 and another for $11,700.;)

DarqueKnight

Sherardp wrote: »

I agree with DK's thoughts. Even if the money is no issue I still wouldn't blow 3k on cables. Just can't see it or hear it for that matter.

inspiredsports wrote: »

Your quote above seems to shows you only "selectively" agree with DK. It doesn't appear that you agree with his decision to have invested over 16K in cables.

hearingimpared wrote: »

I think you missed his post Bro where he purchased on set for $3,300 and another for $11,700.;)

I didn't read it as Sherardp selectively agreeing with me:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I think it's great that there are cables that accomodate all lifestyles and budgets.

Sherardp wrote: »

I agree with DK's thoughts. Even if the money is no issue I still wouldn't blow 3k on cables. Just can't see it or hear it for that matter.

I think Sherardp agreed with my statement about it being good that there are cables for every lifestyle and budget and then went on to state that, for him, even if money was no issue, he still would not invest in very expensive cables because he couldn't tell the difference...just as I can't tell the difference between a $15 and a $150 bottle of wine.

After I posted this list, I thought about it in the context of "is it REALLY worth it?":

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The succession of speaker cables (with retail prices) I have used from 2001 to the present is as follows:

1. DSR Silverline, $105 for a 10 foot pair.
2. Monster Cable Z2 Reference, $200 for a 10 foot pair.
3. Monster Cable Z3 Reference, $300 for a 10 foot pair.
4. PS Audio Xtream Reference, $800 for a 10 foot pair.
5. AudioQuest Volcano, $3,300 for an 8 foot pair.
6. AudioQuest Everest, $11,700 for an 8 foot pair.

The substantial increases in speaker cable costs coincide with some substantial upgrades in audio equipment.

In nine years, I went from speaker cables costing $105 a pair to cables costing $11,700 a pair. Nine years ago, the $105 cables fit into my audio interests and lifestyle. I could have afforded more expensive, higher performing cables, but I just didn't have the interest in higher resolution at that time. As I became more interested in higher musical resolution and realism and as I upgraded to better equipment, I was glad that there were cables available to match the resolution and lower noise characteristics of my better electronics.

Some may find this difficult to believe, but I enjoyed my $105 cables just as much as I enjoy my current $11,700 cables. The $105 cables perfectly suited my requirements nine years ago and the $11,700 cables perfectly suit my requirements now. In absolute terms, the $11,700 cables are "better" than the $105 cables, but, if I had been gifted the $11,700 cables nine years ago, I would have accepted them...and then sold then...and kept on listening to my $105 cables.:)

In December of 2000, back when I had the $105 speaker cables, I took a tour of the Dunlavy Audio Labs factory. I listened to music on an awesome audio system consisting of DAL's top of the line 6-1/2 foot tall SC-VI loudspeakers ($35,000), Jeff Rowland preamp and power amp, and Sony SCD-1 SACD player. When I went back home to my SDA 1C loudspeakers, $105 speaker cables, Adcom GFA-555 Mk II amp, Yamaha CX-1 preamp and Onkyo DX-7500 CD player, there was no sense of "let down". I enjoyed listening to the high end system at DAL labs and I enjoyed listening to my mid-fi system at home...because it was exactly what I wanted at the time.

inspiredsports wrote: »

...It doesn't appear that you agree with his decision to have invested over 16K in cables.

This thread has invoked some quiet reflection on my audio journey. The 16K figure is just for speaker cables.

The retail cost of my current two channel cable infrastructure is as follows:

Interconnect cables

---

$8,850
Speaker cables

---

$11,700
Power cables

---

$9,677

Total for two channel system cable infrastructure:

---

$30,227

The figures for wire seem more sane, and rational, when cables are recognized as being "components" themselves and when they are placed within the context of the electronics they are used with:

Pass Labs X0.2 preamp,

---

$10,000.
Pass Labs Xono phono preamp,

---

$4,200.
Parasound Halo JC 1 monoblock power amps,

---

$8,000.
Cary Audio CD 306 Pro Version SACD player,

---

$8,000.
Teres Audio Model 255 Turntable and peripherals,

---

$12,900.*
Polk Audio SDA SRS 1.2TL loudspeakers,

---

$8,282.**
PS Audio AC Regenerator,

---

$1,700.

Total for main components:

---

$53,082

Total for main components and cables:

---

$83,309

With interconnects, I progressed as follows (retail prices are for a 1 meter pair):

1. Monster Cable IC-400, $30.
2. DSR Silverline 2, $18 (higher performance, but lower cost than MC IC-400!).
3. Monster Cable Z100i, $150.
4. Monster Cable Z200i, $200.
5. Signal Cable Silver Resolution, $209.
6. PS Audio Xtreme Resolution Reference, $500.
7. AudioQuest Niagara, $1,500.
8. AudioQuest Sky, $2,500.

I never, ever, used the interconnects that came with my gear. I even replaced the captive RCA interconnects on my Yamaha PF-800 turntable with RCA jacks so that I could switch interconnects.

With power cords, I progressed as follows (prices are for a 2 meter cord):

1. Stock power cords from 1985 to 2005.
2. Signal Cable MagicPower cord, $74.
3. PS Audio Statement SC, $659.
4. PS Audio Premier SC, $1,793.
5. PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12, $1,000.

Now, I need to go and contemplate how I allowed myself to get caught up in all this. Let this serve as a warning to those who may be heading in this direction about how one can end up if they don't "watch it".;)

My progression to high performance cables is typical. There is some misconception among non-cable people that we cable people started from jump with expensive cables after being seduced by the slick marketing campaigns of the "snake oil" cable purveyors. The truth is that high performance cables came out of the DIY (do it yourself) audio community. A lot, maybe most audiophile DIY'ers, can be characterized as skeptic cheapskates. I am not an audiophile DIY'er. I am an audio skeptic and audio cheapskate. I have to REALLY be impressed with a piece of gear before I fork over copious amounts of cash for it, and even then, only after I have scanned the marketplace for the best possible "deal".:)

---

*Model 255 turntable - $3,400, Graham Phantom B-44 tonearm - $4,300, Teres Audio Reference II turntable motor - $1,400, Sonic Purity Concepts and Design Record Clamp - $400, Ortofon MC Windfeld phono cartridge - $3,400.

**The MSRP in 1989 was $3,400. In 2009 dollars this equates to $6,190. An additional $2,092 was spent in modifications and parts upgrades. A very credible source informed me that if Polk Audio wanted to offer a speaker comparable to the SDA SRS 1.2TL in today's high end speaker market, I could expect a retail price in the range of $10,000 to $15,000.