Upgrading internal speaker wire?

bigaudiofanatic

So I understand that better wire will help the sound but with my infinity's the internal speaker wire is very puny. I was wondering if it is worth it or even possible to upgrade the internal wire?

messiah

I'd like to hear from the people who have attempted this as well

sTiLlLeArNiNg

I have always wanted to do this as well, curious if it will void the warranty?

zingo

Cardas claims that their hookup wire does make a difference. They are a manufacturer making that claim, but their other products sound good so...

bigaudiofanatic

zingo wrote: »

Cardas claims that their hookup wire does make a difference. They are a manufacturer making that claim, but their other products sound good so...

What?

concealer404

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

What?

What what?

What didn't you get?

Knucklehead

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

What?

Come on bro, he's talkin about the uh....wait a sec, what are we talking about?

John30_30

Knucklehead wrote: »

Come on bro, he's talkin about the uh....wait a sec, what are we talking about?

whattage?

fbm211

Go for it.Try good quality 14g-16g and see if it makes a difference.I think it will.
I plan on doing my 2bs in the near future with 14g silver sonic hook up wire.

F1nut

Cardas chassis wire does indeed make a difference, but be forewarned, it is a royal PITA to work with. You really need a solder pot to tin the ends.

bigaudiofanatic

I will have to work on that this weekend might do a nice write up with some pics.

Any idea how to dissemble the infinity 2000.6's?

Face

F1nut wrote: »

Cardas chassis wire does indeed make a difference, but be forewarned, it is a royal PITA to work with. You really need a solder pot to tin the ends.

Or a very hot iron and a lot of patience.

Cardas chassis wire has a smooth, relaxed sound to it. For a more detailed sound, use Neotech solid core. The Neotech mush be braided and is also a PITA to work with also.

bigaudiofanatic

Well I started working on upgrading the wires today. Considering I got some MIT cables in the mail to go from the amp to the speakers. I thought this would help get the max performance.

The stock speaker wire is very cheesy something you would see in a cars wiring probably 16 gauge. Now considering that I have plenty of monster wire laying around I have decided to use it. I know their is better out there but for what the speakers are I think this will suffice.

I have rant into some trouble. On the crossover how am I going to get the thicker wire into the old smaller hole? I have re soldered boards before but never with a bigger wire.

Mazeroth

It's a complete waste of time. Do you see how small the leads are on the capacitors and resistors in your crossovers? If your wires are that size or larger there's no reason to upgrade them. Once the wire from your amp hits the crossover it's all over after that. Save your time and money.

bigaudiofanatic

To late

Also if you believe that than why do so many people upgrade the speaker wire coming out and going in to the speakers?

F1nut

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

Also if you believe that than why do so many people upgrade the speaker wire coming out and going in to the speakers?

You're not getting it.

Once the wire from your amp hits the crossover it's all over after that.

bigaudiofanatic

So than why do we all upgrade our speaker wire? Why not just use little tiny 18 gauge wire? If it is all over when it hits that than why waste 800 dollars on speaker wire when it will not effect anything when hitting those small leads on the capacitors.

F1nut

Because how the signal gets TO the crossover matters.

bigaudiofanatic

Than that is one part of what I am upgrading. The wire from the posts to the crossover and probably the wire from the crossover to the speakers as well.

F1nut

I should rephrase that. How the signal gets from the amp TO the speakers binding posts matters. After that, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference unless the chassis wire is seriously undersized.

Mazeroth

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

So than why do we all upgrade our speaker wire? Why not just use little tiny 18 gauge wire? If it is all over when it hits that than why waste 800 dollars on speaker wire when it will not effect anything when hitting those small leads on the capacitors.

Because people don't know any better. I'm really not trying to talk myself up but only to bring a little bit of credibility. I've been designing speakers for almost five years now and have read more audio books and published pieces than I can count. All that really matters with wiring is that it doesn't present too much resistance to the amplifier. The signal will always get to the speaker, however, if you're using 18 gauge wire for a 100 foot run it's going to introduce a lot of resistance which will affect the frequency response just a touch and also not deliver as much power from the amp. It's negligible, but measurable.

After the signal gets into the crossover it's pretty much worthless to use anything larger than 16 gauage. Some of the guys I know that build speakers will go down to 14 gauge just to do it. When you're talking about runs of 2-3 feet the extra $1 for the wire doesn't matter.

Here's a link to Siegfried Linkwitz's page that discusses speaker wire. He is, in my opinion, the greatest speaker designer and engineer ever. You know Linkwitz-Reily crossovers? Yeah, it's named after him.

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion-faq.htm#Q10

The man uses Radio Shack speaker wires. Enough said.

concealer404

I am now seeing 3 different viewpoints in this thread. I'm getting the popcorn out now.

Wire between your amp and binding posts matter. Binding post to crossover, possibly. Crossover to drivers? No. Not really.

kawizx9r

Tbh, I wouldn't have done anything to those speakers. Just my .02

bigaudiofanatic

Well I am just killing time to be honest. But to have a small wire even going from the post to the crossover. With 110 watts going to them "i know not all the time" I was just helping lower the resistance in the flow from the amp to the crossover and from there to the speakers. I just put the first one back together after just doing the wire from the post to the crossover. Will test them out tomorrow as right now to many people home to really crank them.

Mazeroth

concealer404 wrote: »

I am now seeing 3 different viewpoints in this thread. I'm getting the popcorn out now.

Wire between your amp and binding posts matter. Binding post to crossover, possibly. Crossover to drivers? No. Not really.

Pretty much on the spot. Though, once you reach the binding posts the run to the crossover is usually less than a foot so as long as you have 16 gauge or so there all is well.

Oh, and reading over my post again I didn't spell Riley right. Oh well, he'll forgive me.

bigaudiofanatic

F1nut

You'll get a far better return by upgrading the caps and resistors than changing the wire.

DarqueKnight

Mazeroth wrote: »

It's a complete waste of time. Do you see how small the leads are on the capacitors and resistors in your crossovers? If your wires are that size or larger there's no reason to upgrade them. Once the wire from your amp hits the crossover it's all over after that. Save your time and money.

Yeah. True.

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

To late

Also if you believe that than why do so many people upgrade the speaker wire coming out and going in to the speakers?

Think of it this way:

Imagine you are running a 10 mile endurance race along a 4 lane (50 foot wide) paved highway...in the rain and cold. The end point for the run is an indoor track in a heated facility in which you will be allowed to run the last mile. The indoor track has 10, 2-foot lanes for a total width of 20 feet. The indoor track offers protection from the elements, but the track has a poorer surface, (potholes, cracks and such) than the outside road, but it is not hazardous and the defects can be avoided with proper attention. You will be allowed to wear whatever protective clothing you desire in order to shield your body from the cold and rain.

Questions:

1. Will you keep on the protective clothing once you reach the confines of the indoor track? Why or why not?

2. Will you complain about the indoor track's poorer running surface or receive it with eager thanksgiving?

3. If the indoor track were smoothly paved and wider, how much of a difference do you think it would make in your race time?

4. Which takes a bigger toll on your body: running nine miles on a poor running surface under adverse environmental conditions or running one mile on a poor running surface under good environmental conditions?

5. Within the context of this type of race, where along the race path do smooth running surfaces and protection from the elements return the most value?

heiney9

Mazeroth wrote: »

It's a complete waste of time. Do you see how small the leads are on the capacitors and resistors in your crossovers? If your wires are that size or larger there's no reason to upgrade them. Once the wire from your amp hits the crossover it's all over after that. Save your time and money.

Yeah, but you do realize the leads on a cap or resistor once it's soldered into the PCB is about a few cm long? The internal wiring is much, much longer so while I'm not sure swapping internal wiring will *always* make an audible difference it certainly can't hurt and your analogy really doesn't seem to apply. One certainly would gain more by shortening existing signal paths if at all possible and then using a proven high end solution like Cardas or Neotech or silver or gold, etc.

Then it becomes cumulative, upgrading to better parts, shortening the signal path, using better more pure solder, keeping all connections clean, using better hook-up wire, etc, etc. All that together will make a difference.

I assume we are talking speakers? But it applies to components as well, probably even moreso.

H9

bigaudiofanatic

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Yeah. True.



Think of it this way:

Imagine you are running a 10 mile endurance race along a 4 lane (50 foot wide) paved highway...in the rain and cold. The end point for the run is an indoor track in a heated facility in which you will be allowed to run the last mile. The indoor track has 10, 2-foot lanes for a total width of 20 feet. The indoor track offers protection from the elements, but the track has a poorer surface, (potholes, cracks and such) than the outside road, but it is not hazardous and the defects can be avoided with proper attention. You will be allowed to wear whatever protective clothing you desire in order to shield your body from the cold and rain.

Questions:

1. Will you keep on the protective clothing once you reach the confines of the indoor track? Why or why not?

2. Will you complain about the indoor track's poorer running surface or receive it with eager thanksgiving?

3. If the indoor track were smoothly paved and wider, how much of a difference do you think it would make in your race time?

4. Which takes a bigger toll on your body: running nine miles on a poor running surface under adverse environmental conditions or running one mile on a poor running surface under good environmental conditions?

5. Within the context of this type of race, where along the race path do smooth running surfaces and protection from the elements return the most value?

Your forgetting sense you are actually referring to electricity or current. Their would be more than more runner. So you would want a wider track for as long as possible. As when they get inside it would be much more cramped.

Mazeroth

heiney9 wrote: »

Yeah, but you do realize the leads on a cap or resistor once it's soldered into the PCB is about a few cm long? The internal wiring is much, much longer so while I'm not sure swapping internal wiring will *always* make an audible difference it certainly can't hurt and your analogy really doesn't seem to apply. One certainly would gain more by shortening existing signal paths if at all possible and then using a proven high end solution like Cardas or Neotech or silver or gold, etc.

Then it becomes cumulative, upgrading to better parts, shortening the signal path, using better more pure solder, keeping all connections clean, using better hook-up wire, etc, etc. All that together will make a difference.

I assume we are talking speakers? But it applies to components as well, probably even moreso.

H9

You have a drain pipe that has water flowing through it constantly. From the source, the first section of pipe is 100 feet long and 8" in diameter. Then, it comes to a reducer that takes the 8" pipe down to a 1" pipe. The 1" pipe run is for only 5 feet. Finally, the 1" pipe changes back to an 8" pipe. How well is the water going to flow? The same can be said for speaker wire hitting the crossover (the 1" pipe) and then back to an 8" section to go back to the speaker drivers. It doesn't make sense to go back to 8" when your flow is limited to the 1" pipe after the reducer.