What Amp to get....

headrott

I am looking to get a used 200W to 300W amp to power some 3.1TLs that I recently moded. I would like peoples opinions on 3 amp brands and amps I am looking at:

1. Sunfire 325W standard edition series II amp

2. Luxman 200W M-117 Amp

3. Adcom GFA-555II 200W amp

So.....Which would be the smoothest, closest to a tube sound (ie. not shrill, smooth roll off, and basically "most musical sounding" amp out of the 3?

Thanks for your time and help in the matter.

george daniel

Sand-- Belles 350A Reference,, Classe,,Parasound (A-21 or 23,whichever of the two is the more powerful)

Tube--VTL ST -150,,,Quicksilver(probabally gonna' have to look for a vintage stereo version) Cary 120S, that should get you started.

Of the three that you listed, by process of elimination,I'd take a long look at the NAD

Good luck--let us know what you end up with.

Cogito

Well, my vote goes to the ADCOM GFA-555II. I bought mine new in '94 (possibly earlier as I replaced my GFA-555) and has worked flawlessly since day one. It's absolutely neutral sounding, has tons of power and built to last with it's rugged Bipolar transistor output stage and will even drive a 1 ohm load at over 1100 watts per channel peak!

bluecomet

I have three Luxman M-117's because they are built like a tank, sound excellent and from what I have heard from others it sounds close to tube like sound. I never heard tubes so I can't tell you for sure. All I know is that they sound great and took my SDA SRS 1.2's and 1.2tl's to a different level. If you are impressed with power numbers here's one for you directly from the Luxman M-117 manual. In bridged mono operation this amp puts out 1600 watts at 4 ohms and 2000 watts at 2 ohms dynamic power. At 8 ohms it is 700 watts. That my friend is serious power. If you can match this amp with a Luxman Pre-amp such as the TP-114 or TP-117 you will be smiling all day long. I can't comment on the other amps you mentioned because after I heard this amp, I found what I was looking for.

NJPOLKER

What are you going to mate the amp with? Source/Pre/cables/IC's/TT

tonyb

Tons of wattage doesn't necessarily mean quality sound. I have heard 40 watt tube amps that walk all over 500 watt sand amps. Go for quality over mega watts. Not saying that the Luxman isn't quality,'cause I never heard it,and they do have a good reputation. You should point out if you need an amp for 2 channel listening or HT.

thuffman03

I like my Sunfires.

Cogito

tonyb wrote: »

Tons of wattage doesn't necessarily mean quality sound. I have heard 40 watt tube amps that walk all over 500 watt sand amps. Go for quality over mega watts. Not saying that the Luxman isn't quality,'cause I never heard it,and they do have a good reputation. You should point out if you need an amp for 2 channel listening or HT.

True, but those 3.1TLs can be rather power hungry and a 40w/ch amp just isn't gonna cut it in this case.

concealer404

Cogito wrote: »

True, but those 3.1TLs can be rather power hungry and a 40w/ch amp just isn't gonna cut it in this case.

Sure it can... a quality 40w tube amp will power big SDAs nicely.

nooshinjohn

I run the 600x2 Sunfire in my rig for my SDA 2.3TL's and they never sounded better. The Sunfire would be my choice because they are best able to create a tube-like warmth to the top end and a deep, open soundstage. The 3.1TL's will sing with the Sunfire.

bluecomet

The point I was making is that the Luxman in my opinion has the tube like sound and the power behind it. It is a quality amp that I have had good luck with. This amp is best suited for 2 channel listening. Some guys are into power amp numbers which this amp has but numbers don't matter if the sound isn't there. This amp has both.

headrott

NJPOLKER wrote: »

What are you going to mate the amp with? Source/Pre/cables/IC's/TT

I am using an AMC CD6b-5404as tube Cd player as source.
An AMC 1030as tube pre-amp
Aural Thrills Copper RCA from Pre to Amp connection
Aural Thrills Silver XLR CD to Pre connection
Goertz Serpent Python MI2 Copper speaker cables
My own SDA cable
Sorry, I'm not sure what the "TT" stands for, could you please clarify.

I guess I didn't mention that I would like a good combination of smooth tube sound and good detail (a good mix between the two). I know it's tough to have both unless yo uspend thousands of dollars, but I certainly can't afford that. Thanks for your replys so far, please keep giving opinions.

headrott

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I run the 600x2 Sunfire in my rig for my SDA 2.3TL's and they never sounded better. The Sunfire would be my choice because they are best able to create a tube-like warmth to the top end and a deep, open soundstage. The 3.1TL's will sing with the Sunfire.

I have read reviews that these amps do have a smooth sound, but as a result lack great detail. Any truth to this?

Ron Temple

bluecomet wrote: »

The point I was making is that the Luxman in my opinion has the tube like sound and the power behind it. It is a quality amp that I have had good luck with. This amp is best suited for 2 channel listening. Some guys are into power amp numbers which this amp has but numbers don't matter if the sound isn't there. This amp has both.

Since one of yourw was mine, I'll chime in. I ran a competition between 3 amps, a Carver TFM35, the Luxman and an Adcom 555. They all had strong points, the Carver was laid back and wide, the Adcom was more in your face detailed. The Luxman sounded more refined than either, slightly more detailed than the Carver and with the top end gently rolled off. I never cranked it to clipping. It's a solid amp. That said, there are a great many solid options. I wouldn't say that any of the 3 amps above are better or worse, just different.

Knucklehead

headrott wrote: »

I am using an AMC CD6b-5404as tube Cd player as source.
An AMC 1030as tube pre-amp
Aural Thrills Copper RCA from Pre to Amp connection
Aural Thrills Silver XLR CD to Pre connection
Goertz Serpent Python MI2 Copper speaker cables
My own SDA cable
Sorry, I'm not sure what the "TT" stands for, could you please clarify.

I guess I didn't mention that I would like a good combination of smooth tube sound and good detail (a good mix between the two). I know it's tough to have both unless yo uspend thousands of dollars, but I certainly can't afford that. Thanks for your replys so far, please keep giving opinions.

Turntable

TroyD

Cogito wrote: »

True, but those 3.1TLs can be rather power hungry and a 40w/ch amp just isn't gonna cut it in this case.

That's complete horseshit. I don't know why this myth keeps getting perpetuated...but it does. SDA's are pretty efficient...somewhere around 89 or 90db 1w/m. I've run my 2.3tl's on 50 wpc amps to aurally traumatizing levels.

Quality, not quantity. I good 100wpc amp with a couple db of headroom will be PLENTY.


BDT

Systems

There is a nice Conrad Johnson MV74a-1 that has been modded to run 6550A, KT88 or KT90 tubes for sale in the FS section. I'm just sayin.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91818&highlight=conrad

Cogito

TroyD wrote: »

That's complete horseshit. I don't know why this myth keeps getting perpetuated...but it does. SDA's are pretty efficient...somewhere around 89 or 90db 1w/m. I've run my 2.3tl's on 50 wpc amps to aurally traumatizing levels.

Quality, not quantity. I good 100wpc amp with a couple db of headroom will be PLENTY.


BDT

It's NOT BS. The 3.1TLs have a sensitivty of 90 dB at 1W/m. A 40 watt amp will drive them 16dB (106 dB total). Let's assume the amp has a generous 3 dB of headroom (80 watts), this will give you an output of 109 dB peak. Loud? Yes, if you were listening to the speakers 1 meter away.

It would be safe to assume that these rather large speakers are going into a fairly large room. Let's assume you are 3 meters away, the resulting peak volume would be 99.46 dB. Yes, this would seem loud IF it were a constant tone, but that's not the case with music. I could see this amp being driven into clipping quite frequently while driving to moderately loud listening levels with every hit of a kick drum.

heiney9

Cogito wrote: »

It's NOT BS. The 3.1TLs have a sensitivty of 90 dB at 1W/m. A 40 watt amp will drive them 16dB (106 dB total). Let's assume the amp has a generous 3 dB of headroom (80 watts), this will give you an output of 109 dB peak. Loud? Yes, if you were listening to the speakers 1 meter away.

It would be safe to assume that these rather large speakers are going into a fairly large room. Let's assume you are 3 meters away, the resulting peak volume would be 99.46 dB. Yes, this would seem loud IF it were a constant tone, but that's not the case with music. I could see this amp being driven into clipping quite frequently while driving to moderately loud listening levels with every hit of a kick drum.

Cognito, I'm running 1C's, which are a bit harder to drive than 3.1's, with a 30wpc amp. I have yet to find the maximum output of the amp or to get the amp to stall. It does everything much better in every area than my previous 125 wpc amp did. I even ran the Aleph on LSi 15's in a large open room and only then did I find the limits of the amp.

QUALITY over QUANTITY everytime!!!!! I have never experienced clipping with the Aleph.

H9

concealer404

Cogito wrote: »

It's NOT BS. The 3.1TLs have a sensitivty of 90 dB at 1W/m. A 40 watt amp will drive them 16dB (106 dB total). Let's assume the amp has a generous 3 dB of headroom (80 watts), this will give you an output of 109 dB peak. Loud? Yes, if you were listening to the speakers 1 meter away.

It would be safe to assume that these rather large speakers are going into a fairly large room. Let's assume you are 3 meters away, the resulting peak volume would be 99.46 dB. Yes, this would seem loud IF it were a constant tone, but that's not the case with music. I could see this amp being driven into clipping quite frequently while driving to moderately loud listening levels with every hit of a kick drum.

You don't get it.

So you think it would be better to power these using a 100wpc receiver than a quality 40wpc tube amp?


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay.

nooshinjohn

headrott wrote: »

I have read reviews that these amps do have a smooth sound, but as a result lack great detail. Any truth to this?

Completely false. The imaging I am getting is among the best I have ever heard, and even the smallest details are present and properly balanced.

Cogito

concealer404 wrote: »

You don't get it.

So you think it would be better to power these using a 100wpc receiver than a quality 40wpc tube amp?


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay.

Yes, assuming the receiver is of good quality.

YOU don't get it. There is nothing magical about tubes. Tube amps are NOT inherently better sounding than solid state and vise versa. Get over it...

nguyendot

Whoooo sharpen your claws boys and girls.

You don't need that much power boys and girls, as long as it's good power. A few db here and there won't make a huge difference unless you're in an auditorium.

vc69

Bah... not worth it.

Cogito

heiney9 wrote: »

Cognito, I'm running 1C's, which are a bit harder to drive than 3.1's, with a 30wpc amp. I have yet to find the maximum output of the amp or to get the amp to stall. It does everything much better in every area than my previous 125 wpc amp did. I even ran the Aleph on LSi 15's in a large open room and only then did I find the limits of the amp.

QUALITY over QUANTITY everytime!!!!! I have never experienced clipping with the Aleph.

H9

When you say "harder to drive"? In what sense? The 6 ohm load? They have the same rated sensitivity of 90dB (Referring to thw SDA-1c).

Anyway... I'm sure what you say in true. However, what type of music you listen to, your source (LP, CD, etc.) and how loud you listen to it are important factors.

It NEVER hurts to have too much power available under normal circumstances. Not having enough presents all sorts of issues. You CAN have both quality AND quantity.

concealer404

Cogito wrote: »

Yes, assuming the receiver is of good quality.

YOU don't get it. There is nothing magical about tubes. Tube amps are NOT inherently better sounding than solid state and vise versa. Get over it...

Please explain WHY an 8wpc integrated tube amp that i've heard in very recent history was capable of almost the same output with no audible straining as my 150wpc (rated) M5150 on a set of Polk Monitor 7Cs. And trust me, my oinker is not really a slouch.

It's not about watts. That's been stated, and proven, time and time again.

Do i look like a tube fanboy? Look at my gear man.

Tubes ARE magic, but not for the reasons being discussed in this thread. :rolleyes:

heiney9

Cogito wrote: »

When you say "harder to drive"? In what sense? The 6 ohm load? They have the same rated sensitivity of 90dB (Referring to thw SDA-1c).

Anyway... I'm sure what you say in true. However, what type of music you listen to, your source (LP, CD, etc.) and how loud you listen to it are important factors.

It NEVER hurts to have too much power available under normal circumstances. Not having enough presents all sorts of issues. You CAN have both quality AND quantity.

They present a bit more difficult load than the typical 3.1, but I'm sure they are similar.

I used to own an Adcom 545 (for 20yrs) The Aleph 30 stomps it in every single catagory including playing cleaner at a higher level.

I agree you can get quality and quantity............but you have to pay $$$. The Carvers, Adcoms, Marshs, Sunfires don't posess the same quality as a Pass Labs, BAT, Levinson, Classe, etc

I'd put my Aleph (in fact I have) up against anything and it wll hold it's own with it's measly 30wpc. Is it going to win the ultimate spl contest, probably not.

I listen to classic rock, new wave, jazz, blues, live concerts and the Aleph has more balls than what I have ever owned and compared to many other amps as well.

Adcom's, Carvers, Sunfire, Emo, Marsh, Monarchy mono's (although sounded almost as good).

I am a big Adcom fan..........always have been. The Aleph is leaps and bounds better than my 545.

H9

cfrizz

Cogito wrote: »

It NEVER hurts to have too much power available under normal circumstances. Not having enough presents all sorts of issues. You CAN have both quality AND quantity.

I'd want have it and not need it, rather than need it & not have it.

But that's just lil ol practical me.:)

Cogito

cfrizz wrote: »

I'd want have it and not need it, rather than need it & not have it.

But that's just lil ol practical me.:)

Hey, that's what I say about my guns! LOL

Cogito

heiney9 wrote: »

I agree you can get quality and quantity............but you have to pay $$$. The Carvers, Adcoms, Marshs, Sunfires don't posess the same quality as a Pass Labs, BAT, Levinson, Classe, etc

One does not have to take out a second mortgage to get wonderful sounding gear. The quality of sound does not climb linearly with the price. That applies to both solid state and tube gear.

Spending ten times more for Mark Levinson gear does not buy you ten times better sound. Believe it or not, sometimes you pay extra just for the brand badge. :eek:

concealer404

That is precisely why the more enlightened of us use our ears to determine if we want something... not our eyes, since they don't do much to let us know if we like what we're hearing....