Going back to receiver only, no more separates

Ron-P

It is what you are reading, and thanks.

I do love separates but I feel that I need bigger and more powerful separates to be able to do a fair comparison to the 805. Like you said Doro, the dynamic power of the 805 exceeds that of the Adcoms.

I really need to ditch the Adcoms and invest in a more powerful, better separate(s) which is what I will most likely do. The 535's seem to be selling for about $150 each on ebay, I've got 5 of them so I should be able to land a better separate for the cash from these.

Ron-P

MrGlobe wrote: »

Just curious about all this, when you watch a movie now, what is the volume at? and what was it before?

Is there much difference in the speaker imaging? Is it less realistic sounding when watching movies now?

What kind of room setup do you have? Is this a dedicated room or a family room?

Thanks

The volume with the Adcoms were -10, now I'm at about a -17'ish, not real sure though, I didn't do too much testing / set-up last night. Too tired and too buzzed to do so..HAHAHAHHA!

No real difference that I could tell with imaging but as for realistic sound, it sounds the same, other then crisper highs, and like I said earily, a bit more mid-base punch (but that needs more testing before I conclude anything).

My room (The Driftwood Theater) is a dedicated room built in my garage. It's 16' x 9' with a varying height ceiling. The room is all 2x4 construction which is both nailed and screwed throughout. Double drywall on the inside (5/8" over 1/2") with insulation in every crack. The outer skin is 1/2" drywall overlaid with 5/8" OSB. Two dedicated electrical lines off the main house panel, one for misc and one dedicated for gear. Complete sound control on the inside with regards to drapes, wall coverings, carpet...etc.

Sherardp

MrGlobe wrote: »

Sherardp, did you use just your receiver before going to seperates? if so was there a big difference?

Briefly when I was using a Sony 7100ES. I preferred the sound of my amps over just using my AVR. I added the SC07 to my setup some time ago and have not really tried powering my speakers without my amps. I'm only using it as a pre.

dorokusai

Ron-P wrote: »

It is what you are reading, and thanks.

I do love separates but I feel that I need bigger and more powerful separates to be able to do a fair comparison to the 805. Like you said Doro, the dynamic power of the 805 exceeds that of the Adcoms.

I really need to ditch the Adcoms and invest in a more powerful, better separate(s) which is what I will most likely do. The 535's seem to be selling for about $150 each on ebay, I've got 5 of them so I should be able to land a better separate for the cash from these.

You should do pretty well on resale. What about picking up a couple matching Onkyo amplifiers to cover front duty and delegate the rest to the AVR? They also use WRAT technology and would look pretty trick in the setup.

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=M-282&class=Amplifier&p=i

Can't you assign the rear channels elsewhere on the TX-SR805? That's a cool feature.

pearsall001

I came to the same conclusion regarding sepatate preamps. As far as I'm concerned my NAD AVR is more than up to the task for both HT & two channel listening. That Onkyo that you have also gets hi-marks for it's performance as a preamp. No need for separates there either.

mantis

Ron-P wrote: »

I've been thinking about moving all the gear out Dan, just not sure where to put it yet. But once I do, you can bet it'll all get moved out. As for the Marantz receiver, it would have been a step down from the Onkyo I have now.

Awesome man, not having the gear in the room is beautiful. More room , less heat , less lights , better everything. I'm thinking if you sell off all the amps , sell the receiver and buy a new receiver higher end. I can help you on your journey here. Let me know what you decide to do with all that. Not to mention control. Many cool options and lighting control as well. Cool stuff lies in for the Driftwood, Now I need to see a movie in there or 3.

TroyD

I agree...man, I did the whole separates thing in the HT.....and it was cool. However, just having an AVR, SOOO much simpler and the sound is just FINE.

It's HT, it's not like we are trying to split the atom or anything.

Good deal, Ron.

BDT

Unknown

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mesquitehead

Over the years I have owned some nice stuff from tube amps,Carver,Outlaw,Marantz, blah blah blah...I chased the coattails of that elusive sonic nirvana....and blew lots of dough doing it. Then a few years ago I took a job working for a man named Rupert Neve (google him)...he would attend pro audio shows and listen patiently to people extolling the virtues of this and that and then he would ask..."how does it sound?". I got the message, I picked his brain like a kid in a candy store from 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion to transformers and tubes to digital and how the human ear and brain perceive sound...and learned a good bit. The most important thing I learned is that it is the ears in the end that decide what we like and each set is unique in how it "hears".
Nowdays I anchor my 5.1 main setup with SDA-1C's (studios) and a Marantz SR8001...she is fine for my liking and will play as loud and clear as my wife will allow. At our audio shop I have my trusty Carver TFM-35 running 2 channel through a Carver Sonic Holography pre and connected to Polk SDA-1C's...all because it sounds good "to me". There are prettier toys and pricier toys but I always remember what Rupert said and what he asked. In fact our company motto now is this "Ask yourself, how does it sound".
There comes a time in every audiophiles life where we get tired of hanging the latest greatest stuff and 12 speakers on a wall only to find out that that 1982 Marantz reciever and a pair of beat up SDA's blows it all away (insert your own fave), marketing and hype drive the industry folks and trust me I know guys who can do amazing things with analog circuits in a smallish box. In my line of work most companies make a living copying the stuff that was made years ago, true innovation is rare and quality is out the door in most cases. Keep this in mind and it will save you some money and some sanity...maybe even a relationship or marriage. I work in one studio that has Krells coming out of the woodwork pumping Dynaudios the size of trucks mounted in the walls...if I want to I can always go have some BIG fun on their dime! (gotta save money for my fishing habit)

Sherardp

mesquitehead wrote: »

Over the years I have owned some nice stuff from tube amps,Carver,Outlaw,Marantz, blah blah blah...I chased the coattails of that elusive sonic nirvana....and blew lots of dough doing it. Then a few years ago I took a job working for a man named Rupert Neve (google him)...he would attend pro audio shows and listen patiently to people extolling the virtues of this and that and then he would ask..."how does it sound?". I got the message, I picked his brain like a kid in a candy store from 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion to transformers and tubes to digital and how the human ear and brain perceive sound...and learned a good bit. The most important thing I learned is that it is the ears in the end that decide what we like and each set is unique in how it "hears".
Nowdays I anchor my 5.1 main setup with SDA-1C's (studios) and a Marantz SR8001...she is fine for my liking and will play as loud and clear as my wife will allow. At our audio shop I have my trusty Carver TFM-35 running 2 channel through a Carver Sonic Holography pre and connected to Polk SDA-1C's...all because it sounds good "to me". There are prettier toys and pricier toys but I always remember what Rupert said and what he asked. In fact our company motto now is this "Ask yourself, how does it sound".
There comes a time in every audiophiles life where we get tired of hanging the latest greatest stuff and 12 speakers on a wall only to find out that that 1982 Marantz reciever and a pair of beat up SDA's blows it all away (insert your own fave), marketing and hype drive the industry folks and trust me I know guys who can do amazing things with analog circuits in a smallish box. In my line of work most companies make a living copying the stuff that was made years ago, true innovation is rare and quality is out the door in most cases. Keep this in mind and it will save you some money and some sanity...maybe even a relationship or marriage. I work in one studio that has Krells coming out of the woodwork pumping Dynaudios the size of trucks mounted in the walls...if I want to I can always go have some BIG fun on their dime! (gotta save money for my fishing habit)

Very well said.

cnh

I'm not surprised at the results with the 805.....I have one myself and it's really built like a tank specifically for HT at 8 ohms....if you're driving an 8 ohm speaker...this receiver has sufficient power...the audio processing for surround is quite qood and it exceeds its power ratings in 5.1 as tested in the laboratory!

For 2 channel I have found that adding a good 200-250 watt/channel power amp does, though, still make a difference. So if you wanted the Onkyo to do double duty you still need MORE power for 2 channel. Otherwise...pound for pound...and those Onkyos are pretty heavy....the 805 has got to be Onkyo's best AVR for the money. The amp section is still pretty similar in the newer series.

cnh

mesquitehead

BTW, some receivers allow you to take unused rear channels (I prefer 5.1 to 7.1) and assign them to the front, I think mine is doing 250w per side now, can't recall exactly...I read the manual once and that was enough (damned novel).

kuntasensei

I say it's a good time to upgrade. Newegg occasionally drops the TX-NR1007 at $999, and I hear they're damn nice.

And by I hear, I mean I hear the one in my living room that I got for $999.

Ron-P

Well, where I didn't expect a significant improvement I noticed the most, the 2-channel music. I spun some Epica, Nightwish and Leaves' Eyes, amazing, it's as if the cotton was removed from the speakers. The improvement in clarity and sound stage was extremely noticeable. A song by Epica titled "Memories" (you know the song) was as if I was playing the piano and Simone was standing at the edge of the piano singing. Fantastic!

Time to sell off the Adcom's!

NewHTguy

cnh wrote: »

I'm not surprised at the results with the 805.....I have one myself and it's really built like a tank specifically for HT at 8 ohms....if you're driving an 8 ohm speaker...this receiver has sufficient power...the audio processing for surround is quite qood and it exceeds its power ratings in 5.1 as tested in the laboratory!

For 2 channel I have found that adding a good 200-250 watt/channel power amp does, though, still make a difference. So if you wanted the Onkyo to do double duty you still need MORE power for 2 channel. Otherwise...pound for pound...and those Onkyos are pretty heavy....the 805 has got to be Onkyo's best AVR for the money. The amp section is still pretty similar in the newer series.

cnh

+1. Using my two channel Parasound to push my Lsi25s, and allowing the Onk to do the rest is the sweet spot.

mantis

Sherardp wrote: »

Briefly when I was using a Sony 7100ES. I preferred the sound of my amps over just using my AVR. I added the SC07 to my setup some time ago and have not really tried powering my speakers without my amps. I'm only using it as a pre.

I think you will be surprised in your results if you test this.

I'm just saying

anhchungdoan

Ron-P wrote: »

Ok, here it goes, the update.

Got the theater all put back together last night running only my Onkyo 805, PS3, Monster HTS-2500 and a 250w amp for the Tempest sub. The 4 Adcom 535's are out.

First: I moved the sub to the front right corner of the theater (it used to be up against the back wall behind the rear seating). It's currently sitting on a couple of bricks, disconnected from any part of the theater walls or floor. The base is fantastic. Being able to crank it up and dial it in has made a huge impact (pun intended) in the quality of base from what I had. Couldn't do this before as the sub was to close to the FP causing it to vibrate.



Second (The sound): I am happier without the Adcoms and only running the 805.

Why? First off, I can now have a true 7.1 rig. Running the Adcoms didn't allow for this because I did not have enough amps to do it. Sure, I could have used the Adcoms for some speakers and the 805 for others but I'm not going to mix up amps like that and now I know why, the sound is noticeably different between them.

Adcoms, like my old Marantz SR5000 receiver I noticed had a warmer, flatter, sound to them, the 805 is the opposite. The 805 has a cleaner sound with crisper highs. I've watched Star Trek over the past several nights using the Adcoms so it was my first film in with just the 805. I noticed more prominently sound effects that did not stand out as much with the Adcoms, most likely due to the crispness of the high end. Also, the mid-base punch seemed tighter, all though that's still up for debate.

Volume: I can go quite a bit louder with the 805 due to it having nearly twice the wpc of the Adcoms, and it sounds amazing when I do.

Overall I am quite impressed with the 805 and not using the Adcom separates. Next I'll run some CDs and see how 2-channel compares.

More later...

I am in a process to simplify my audio hobby so I have been selling off my so-called hi-end gear. Being the ex-owner of the great 805, I will agree with you that the 805 has closed the gap between the mid-end ( aka. Adcom, Para, Rotel...) and low end gear either in 2 channel analog or H/T providing you have high efficiency speakers and listen at moderate loud level. I was thinking the same while I owned the 805.

I also have to disagree with you that the 805 will not come close or near the true hi-end gear ( aka. Krell, BAT, Classe, Bryston, Audio Research, Cary...etc just to name the few). I do not mean by any way to offend you but if you never have listened to or have never owned their gear you will not miss much by going with the 805 since you do not miss what you do not have.

I have the Pio SC05 and the BDP51fd/ BDP95fd/DV58ai with Def Tech speakers and I have been thrilled with the SQ of the low-end ARV therefore I have just ordered the Onkyo 876 for a second system however I still keep the Krell 400xi for my critical listening.

Ron-P

anhchungdoan wrote: »

I also have to disagree with you that the 805 will not come close or near the true hi-end gear ( aka. Krell, BAT, Classe, Bryston, Audio Research, Cary...etc just to name the few). I do not mean by any way to offend you but if you never have listened to or have never owned their gear you will not miss much by going with the 805 since you do not miss what you do not have.

Not sure who you are responding to but I don't recall making a comment about the 805 and hi-end gear. My comments are based on the 805 compared to the Adcom 535's

anhchungdoan

BlueFox wrote: »

It amazes me how many poeple think the boom boom is what makes a movie.[/QUO

Without a sub, there is not much left there no matter 7.1 or 9.2 set up. To get an extra 3 db ( barely notice in listening level) one will have to double the power. The 805 is more than enough for an average room size without any extra external amp.

madmax

Ron-P wrote: »

Second (The sound): I am happier without the Adcoms and only running the 805.

Its that damn rack I tell you!

cnh

I think Doro is right above....I've run the 805 by itself..fine for 8 ohm HT....and I've run it as a pre with the more powerful Adcom GFA-555 in 2 channel and there you can definitely hear a difference in clarity, power and detail over the Onkyo's internal.

Some day perhaps I will hear the vaunted Krell...but I wouldn't run such a piece with an Onkyo AVR as the pre....seems a bit of a waste.....considering their differences.

But you already know that!

cnh

pearsall001

cnh wrote: »

I think Doro is right above....I've run the 805 by itself..fine for 8 ohm HT....and I've run it as a pre with the more powerful Adcom GFA-555 in 2 channel and there you can definitely hear a difference in clarity, power and detail over the Onkyo's internal.

Some day perhaps I will hear the vaunted Krell...but I wouldn't run such a piece with an Onkyo AVR as the pre....seems a bit of a waste.....considering their differences.

But you already know that!

cnh

Don't jump tp conclusions. That's the biggest mistake one can make with putting a system together.

tonyb

I did the seperates route along time ago. But have also learned to let your ears be the guide regardless of what gear is in the rack or speakers are in front of you. Alot of stuff has come and gone before settling on what just sounds good to me. In a combined HT/ 2 channel system, and thats how I roll, an AVR has it's place and can sound very good. After all, in the audio world we always say let your ears be the judge. Will spending an extra 3,4 or 5 grand get you better SQ? Yeah,maybe, but only you can judge if the expense is worth the gains. Kudo's to those who are letting their ears dictate,instead of marketing gurus.

Face

It can go either way. I'm happier with the sound of a lower powered 5 channel gain clone than using my Onkyo 706 as a power amp.

Ron-P

madmax wrote: »

Its that damn rack I tell you!

HAHAHAHA!

Another benefit of just using the 805 is a lot less wire running everywhere. The rig is much more simple and manageable.

I'm going to put 4 of the 5 Adcom 535's up for sale, I have to keep at least one as I do really like the amps. But I feel a 5 or 7 channel amp down the road will suit my needs better then a rack full of 2-channel's.

Not sure how much to sell them for, I need to get my research on to see just how much there worth plus shipping will be pricey due to the size and weight of these things.

dorokusai

That's another reason I like keeping it simple...less wiring, less cluttered.

phatsuojd

Not sure how much to sell them for, I need to get my research on to see just how much there worth plus shipping will be pricey due to the size and weight of these things.

concealer404

^I vote you sell them for 2 cents apiece.

Go away. Reported.

Ron-P

Putting these up in the FS area.