Going back to receiver only, no more separates

Ron-P

Due to space limitations since I revamped the theater for the bigger screen I am in need of more room. I need to get the sub up front (where it should be) and out from behind the rear seating and away from the PJ. So, I'm pulling out my rack of 4 Adcom 535's and the Monster HTS-2500 that protects them. I'll be running my Onkyo 805 only, with the 250w plate amp for the sub.

Doing this will get me down to only one rack that I can put to the far left side of the room and put the sub at the far right. The gear will be close to the sbu but I plan to isolate the rack and gear better and the PJ as well.

With the current set up I cannot us the sub to its full potential due to it vibrating the PJ. I'm 99% movies with 1% music so I'm not going to expect a huge (if any) change in sound quality. But, I'll find out in a few days.

greg2350

Ron-P wrote: »

I'm not going to expect a huge (if any) change in sound quality.

Im confused so all this talk about how much better seperate amps sound is all BS please explain!!!!!

Ron-P

For music, I'm sure there's a difference, a very noticeable difference but for film soundtracks I highly doubt it. BUT, I've not done the "receiver" vr "separates" comparison with these new lossless tracks on Blu-ray's. Tomorrow I'll get to do just that. I did do the comparison with lossy DD tracks and could not tell a difference.

If the difference is quite noticeable I'll figure a way to get the Adcom's back into the rig, maybe building a cabinet outside the theater for the gear.

I'll know which direction I'll be going tomorrow night.

greg2350

Hmm interesting my setup is used mainly for HT probally like yours 99% will be interested to hear your results. Maybe I should sell my rotel amps and upgrade my avr.

anhchungdoan

Ron-P wrote: »

For music, I'm sure there's a difference, a very noticeable difference but for film soundtracks I highly doubt it. BUT, I've not done the "receiver" vr "separates" comparison with these new lossless tracks on Blu-ray's. Tomorrow I'll get to do just that. I did do the comparison with lossy DD tracks and could not tell a difference.

If the difference is quite noticeable I'll figure a way to get the Adcom's back into the rig, maybe building a cabinet outside the theater for the gear.

I'll know which direction I'll be going tomorrow night.

For H/T application, I doubt there is much difference providing you have a good sub.

For 2 channel analog audio listening, There is not subtle but apparent difference. A good pre amp ( Audio Research, Bryston...) and a solid amp ( Krell, Classe, Pass..) will show the weakness the pre-amp section of the AVR even you using better amp.

For simplicity, I settle for an Intergrated amp for music and the Pio SC05 for H/T. I do not believe there is once in all pre-amp/ processor will do best for the double duty ( analog 2 channel and H/T).

dorokusai

Since when did home theater become difficult? or did I miss the memo? I'll AVR my HT until I'm bored enough to get seperates.

Sherardp

dorokusai wrote: »

Since when did home theater become difficult? or did I miss the memo? I'll AVR my HT until I'm bored enough to get seperates.

Guess I've been bored for a long time. My setup sounds awesome.

BlueFox

anhchungdoan wrote: »

For H/T application, I doubt there is much difference providing you have a good sub.

It amazes me how many poeple think the boom boom is what makes a movie.

mantis

Ron,
I suggest you remove all gear from the Driftwood. have a rack live outside somewhere and control it VIA a IR repeater or RF system. If you need suggestions I'll provide you with many options. There is no reason to have any gear inside your theater room.
On a side note if you have a powerful enough receiver with polk rti speakers , separate amps are not required especially considering the size of your room.
I remember you wanting a new receiver a Marantz you where looking at , what's going on with that? If you had a Pioneer ELite SC model with ICE amps , separates you will not require anymore. It will blow out the Driftwood. Or I believe there is a NAD T785 in the flea market if no one scooped it up , that will also blow apart the Driftwood , you may need more nails.

leroyjr1

mantis wrote: »

If you had a Pioneer ELite SC model with ICE amps , separates you will not require anymore.

Using the SC-07 with RTIa setup and for HT the SC-07 does a great job. Was running a Rotel RMB-1075 with the sc-07 receiver and didn't notice any difference between the two.

Sherardp

My gear is in back of theater room and I'm running everything with Speakercraft IR kit. Harmony One performs flawlessly.

Ron-P

Ok, here it goes, the update.

Got the theater all put back together last night running only my Onkyo 805, PS3, Monster HTS-2500 and a 250w amp for the Tempest sub. The 4 Adcom 535's are out.

First: I moved the sub to the front right corner of the theater (it used to be up against the back wall behind the rear seating). It's currently sitting on a couple of bricks, disconnected from any part of the theater walls or floor. The base is fantastic. Being able to crank it up and dial it in has made a huge impact (pun intended) in the quality of base from what I had. Couldn't do this before as the sub was to close to the FP causing it to vibrate.



Second (The sound): I am happier without the Adcoms and only running the 805.

Why? First off, I can now have a true 7.1 rig. Running the Adcoms didn't allow for this because I did not have enough amps to do it. Sure, I could have used the Adcoms for some speakers and the 805 for others but I'm not going to mix up amps like that and now I know why, the sound is noticeably different between them.

Adcoms, like my old Marantz SR5000 receiver I noticed had a warmer, flatter, sound to them, the 805 is the opposite. The 805 has a cleaner sound with crisper highs. I've watched Star Trek over the past several nights using the Adcoms so it was my first film in with just the 805. I noticed more prominently sound effects that did not stand out as much with the Adcoms, most likely due to the crispness of the high end. Also, the mid-base punch seemed tighter, all though that's still up for debate.

Volume: I can go quite a bit louder with the 805 due to it having nearly twice the wpc of the Adcoms, and it sounds amazing when I do.

Overall I am quite impressed with the 805 and not using the Adcom separates. Next I'll run some CDs and see how 2-channel compares.

More later...

dorokusai

No suprise here.

thuffman03

If it sounds better to you then that is all that matters.

MrGlobe

Wow, i'm glad I read through this thread. I think its time to put more money into the HT room as apposed to components

Ron-P

dorokusai wrote: »

No suprise here.

Confused with that one, why?

I might look into selling off the 5 Adcom 535's I have and see what I can find in the way of newer, more powerful amps. Amps that might not be as warm sounding as the Adcoms.

Ron-P

mantis wrote: »

Ron,
I suggest you remove all gear from the Driftwood. have a rack live outside somewhere and control it VIA a IR repeater or RF system. If you need suggestions I'll provide you with many options. There is no reason to have any gear inside your theater room.
On a side note if you have a powerful enough receiver with polk rti speakers , separate amps are not required especially considering the size of your room.
I remember you wanting a new receiver a Marantz you where looking at , what's going on with that? If you had a Pioneer ELite SC model with ICE amps , separates you will not require anymore. It will blow out the Driftwood. Or I believe there is a NAD T785 in the flea market if no one scooped it up , that will also blow apart the Driftwood , you may need more nails.

I've been thinking about moving all the gear out Dan, just not sure where to put it yet. But once I do, you can bet it'll all get moved out. As for the Marantz receiver, it would have been a step down from the Onkyo I have now.

MrGlobe

Just curious about all this, when you watch a movie now, what is the volume at? and what was it before?

Is there much difference in the speaker imaging? Is it less realistic sounding when watching movies now?

What kind of room setup do you have? Is this a dedicated room or a family room?

Thanks

Matt34

The onkyo 805 is a beast of a receiver and probably the best to date from onkyo as far as the amp section is concerned. If there was only one avr to pick if I couldn't run seperates it would be the one.

reeltrouble1

I ran the RTT with just the Onk for a while when I needed the B&K 7ch amplifier to fill in for 2ch duty for a bit, I eventually put the the amp back in the theater rack but the Onkyo ran the Lci just fine.

Not suprised you like it.

RT1

thuffman03

MrGlobe wrote: »

Wow, i'm glad I read through this thread. I think its time to put more money into the HT room as apposed to components

I would not rule out seperate amps and preamps.

It all depends on what speakers you are driving and what amps you are going to buy. The Adcom 535's that he was using are 60wpc. The AVR he has is 110 I think. So if he has a highly efficent speaker that is 8 ohms the AVR might do a better job, and to his ears it is. I can't say either way with that setup since I have not heard either the AVR or those Adcom amps.

Now if he steps up to a 200wpc 7 channel seperate amp I would believe he would hear a difference and be back to seperates. But then again room size and volume level that he listens too would make a difference in any setup.

So don't think AVR's are the best choice in every situation. There are a lot of factors to take in consideration.

thuffman03

deleted....Sorry double post.

thuffman03

Matt34 wrote: »

The onkyo 805 is a beast of a receiver and probably the best to date from onkyo as far as the amp section is concerned. If there was only one avr to pick if I couldn't run seperates it would be the one.

It seems pretty good.

MrGlobe

Understandable. I do not have nearly as powerful of an AVR as he has, but my HT room is only 11x13, and I would only have a $200-300 budget for amp and preamp.

I guess I'm just attempting to derive a correlation between his findings and my situation with concern to strict budgetary limitaions

concealer404

MrGlobe wrote: »

Understandable. I do not have nearly as powerful of an AVR as he has, but my HT room is only 11x13, and I would only have a $200-300 budget for amp and preamp.

I guess I'm just attempting to derive a correlation between his findings and my situation with concern to strict budgetary limitaions

The 805 is another level from what you're getting from me, and the price shows.

What you ended up with will have more power than his 805, but just won't have all the latest processing power. I'd say you did very well with your budget as a head first jump into HT separates.

On the flip side, and don't let this discourage you, i don't think that you needed QUITE as much power as you ended up with in a room that small.

MrGlobe

Haha i'd rather have the extra power than sit there and want more:)

concealer404

MrGlobe wrote: »

Haha i'd rather have the extra power than sit there and want more:)

That's how i am, too... headroom is important.

thuffman03

IMO you can never have too much power.

Sherardp

i think if the OP goes to different sounding Amp with more power the results would be different as well. Kudos for the getting the sub/projector issue worked out so that you can really enjoy your gear though.

I personally like going the seperates route. Granted I'm using my SC-07 as a pre, the setup sounds simply awesome. Not sure I will ever go back to just an AVR, unless I had the Pioneer SC-09 or better.

MrGlobe

Sherardp, did you use just your receiver before going to seperates? if so was there a big difference?

dorokusai

Ron-P wrote: »

Confused with that one, why?

That Adcom is a runt and has always been more of a hole filler for that lineup to me. The dynamic power of the Onkyo(WRAT) really works from what I've experienced and is spot-on like the NAD PE/PD series of electronics. I'm not suprised that the Onkyo simply did what was always capable of doing against a fairly generic offering from Adcom.

Plus, it's new for you, at least in your head so the fact it sounded great should have given you a nice boost in how things turned out. You're a good listener and I don't mean placebo effect at all but real satisfaction is what I'm reading no?