I take great pleasure in saying.....

tonyb

Lorthos wrote: »

Cool, we can keep on polluting, man what a load off.....

The GW mantra isn't necessarily about pollution. It's about changing temps of the earth and supposedly mans contribution to that change. When you have people claiming pig farts are too much to handle,credability goes out the window. If pollution was the main concern,legislation would be enacted to curb it,but it's not. Money is the priority,your money. If you can buy carbon credits for your polluting ways,then essentially they are saying it's ok to pollute as long as you pay for that privelage. Again,credability is out the window. You want to hand your kids a better earth then teach them about respecting it. You can't even get science to agree carbon is the culprit let alone manmade carbon. Please don't post any article of claims of such as an opposing one can be just as easy to find. Use of some common sense is needed.

tonyb

vc69 wrote: »

I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion on an audio forum but since it is, and I happen to like this forum, I'm going to weigh in.

It's not really about the effing temp changes, it's about NOT destroying what precious little resources there are left to go around in a world who's population is exploding. WTFU. This isn't about you, it's about your grandchildren, their grandchildren and the world we leave to them.

My guess is this: the people that think this is some kind of "left-wing" conspiracy are the same folks who believe the rapture is near. Or perhaps they don't have kids... or they are just self-centered ****.
In any case, those of us that aren't going to be rescued by the apocalypse are going to move forward with the intention of trying to preserve the only planet we have in hopes that future generations have a chance for the kind of prosperity we have enjoyed for ourselves.

/.rant

So according to you,the people are eating up too much of the earths natural resources. More people,less resources. Seems to me you are stopping just short of population control. Damn people are going to have to die,right? Seeing that every person on the face of the earth can fit in the state of Texas,I'd say we still have some room left for a few more.

Personally, I think we should be developing our tech to explore space and find other habital planets and the means to get there. Everything has a life cycle,our species,the earth,the sun,etc. If you want to think that far into the future that is. Species come and go on our planet mainly becouse they couldn't adapt to changes. We as a species are very adaptable to cold and heat changes,to a certain degree. If the earth decides it's done with humans,no carbon credit, no government regulation or GW B.S. will save your ****. Sure,you could argue that we as a species have control over our destiny,but we have our limits also in that regard. If you really want to keep the species alive you have to look past having it just on one planet. Kinda like a sitting duck on a cosmic scale anyway.

obieone

Merriam-Webster dictionary;

Idealogue:

1. an impractical idealist

2. an often blindly partisan advocate, or adherent of a particular ideology

Makes no difference whether we're talking about the Jones town cult, Westboro Baptist church, or the FAR-LEFT:rolleyes:

And AGAIN, let me state: I am ALL FOR keeping our environment clean. All I'm asking for is less emotion, and more logic;)

vc69

Tony,

For the most part, I agree with your plan of action. I also think that the radicalized **** from both sides is not doing anyone any good.
What I take issue with is the out of hand dismissal of the pointed facts. If we don't take action to preserve fossil fuels and stop the massive de-forestation of the planet, we will not have the opportunity to explore possible new worlds. This is a complex problem. Most do not want to take the time to understand it any further than "how is this going to effect me?".

We have been on this planet as humans for at least twenty thousand years. We have only been hell bent for destruction the last two hundred years or so. It must stop. We can stop it.

I agree that mother earth can shrug and we're history. Why keep poking her in the eye?

sucks2beme

A long term look at weather patterns tell us there have been warming and cooling spells lasting hundreds of years. There are also long term trends
from the wobble of the earth. I know we have had some effect on nature with our bad habits, but overall we can't do much to change the pattern.
We still need to change our short sighted habits of waste and excess,
but the warming trend is what it is. I'm sure 700 years ago when worldwide
temperatures dropped, they were equally concerned.

petrym

"Humanity's attempt to revamp the Earth for its benefit is pointless to nature's inexorable purpose -- to achieve balance -- which man can neither comprehend nor accept."

Me

ben62670

dudeinaroom wrote: »

I think It should be Drill nowhere now. Petroleum is nasty. Not good for the environment at all. 1 drop of oil can pollute 100,000 gallons of water. And to think people just dump it into the ground(even though you are not supposed to)which then leaches into our water supplies. Everything we are seeing could be a precursor to a polar shift, we don't know. Yeah, we have been around for quite a while, and modern science even less than us. How long do we estimate the Earth has been around? I just don't think we have a big enough sample to predict what is happening let alone what will happen. I'm not trying to argue just saying there is a ton that we don't know about the planet, and I'm not even talking about under the oceans. And there are way to many variables to take into account. We are just modeling off of the stuff we know, and we think we know every thing. I really think that is far from the truth, crap, how much do we know about space, and what out there, and the effects it has on our planet.

Ever see an oil pump in Alaska? Grass is growing there with no issues, and Eagles like to nest on them. The environmental BS is just no brain environmentalist think they are doing good. Kinda like the only recycling that is good is recycling aluminum.

vc69

Polkersince85 wrote: »

They claim to be for the earth; but in reallity, they are passing legislation and then investing heavily in natural gas and carbon credits meerly to enhance their wealth. All the while claiming to be for the "little man". Pure BS.

/rant

And I guess when the same thing happens with regard to making war in order line the pockets of the defense industry and no-bid contracts (Haliburton), it's somehow different? Both scenarios are deplorable and border on treason.

unc2701

Regarding the original article, basically this is what happens when you have idiots reading scientific dialog. The "conspiracy and manipulation of data" that the author so gleefully cites is the kind of discussion that's pretty typical for any model fitting exercise.

I really don't have any comment on the global warming aspect, but the author of obie's link has no f-ing clue what he's talking about.

dudeinaroom

+1 For sure. Regardless of Global Warming we need to change our ways. We are a disposable society on an indispensable planet

kevhed72

obieone wrote: »

I TOLD YOU SO!

Global Warming a hoax:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017393/climategate-the-final-nail-in-the-coffin-of-anthropogenic-global-warming/

When I was a kid, we used to walk ten miles to school in the snow, and we liked it....

Such an earth shattering article should be all over Fox in the next couple days, as well as the other news networks...

BottomFeeder

unc2701 wrote: »

Regarding the original article, basically this is what happens when you have idiots reading scientific dialog. The "conspiracy and manipulation of data" that the author so gleefully cites is the kind of discussion that's pretty typical for any model fitting exercise.

I really don't have any comment on the global warming aspect, but the author of obie's link has no f-ing clue what he's talking about.

+1. Read the latest news articles and you'll see the same.

gdb

Warming or cooling.....time will tell, but, one VERY real threat that was discussed constantly back when I was in school (early 70s), doesn't get much mention these days, and that is, the POPULATION EXPLOSION. Anyone care to dispute the existence of that one? Let's hear it.:eek:

TNRabbit

My favorite quote:

"And we will see ever-more-virulent campaigns conducted by eco-fascist activists, such as this risible new advertising campaign by Plane Stupid showing CGI polar bears falling from the sky and exploding because kind of, like, man, that’s sort of what happens whenever you take another trip on an aeroplane."

jm1

gdb wrote: »

Warming or cooling.....time will tell, but, one VERY real threat that was discussed constantly back when I was in school (early 70s), doesn't get much mention these days, and that is, the POPULATION EXPLOSION. Anyone care to dispute the existence of that one? Let's hear it.:eek:

I wouldn't worry about this too much. Once Codex Alimentarius is globally implemented, their projections estimate three billion deaths; one billion through direct starvation and two billion from under nutrition.

P.S. It will not be implemented in Jan 2010. We still have about another year to stop this.

P.P.S. By design this doesn't get much attention as the population would freak out if they knew this.

lanion

Im curious what will happen with regards to the email hacking... scientific fraud is terrible, but so is hacking... I wonder if the emails are credible.

If they are, and even if temperatures globally are not changing much, locally they are --- as glaciers are breaking up. Weather is pretty unpredictable. Any climate change will make once dry areas habitable (Good!) and once prosperous regions very dry (devastating) -- which has been happening in the Sahel in Africa for some time now due to deforestation and other factors.

Anyway, I guess it was inevitable that climate became overly politicized as too much money is at stake, but its still unfortunate. Only facts should matter.

Kex

lanion wrote: »

Im curious what will happen with regards to the email hacking... scientific fraud is terrible, but so is hacking... I wonder if the emails are credible. ...

Just an update, to stir up the debate some more (what a shame it seems to have become a conservative vs. democrat chasm ...). I thought the "proof" might have been a lot more convincing than this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/8374721.stm

... They have picked up on the word "trick" in one e-mail from 1999 and talk of "hiding the decline".

... released a copy of the actual e-email which reads: "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline." ...

So that's the long and short of the global conspiracy? An excerpt from a ten year old message? Surely there's more to it than that.