Tone controls are not evil
Comments
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You see the average snob confuses $$ with quality. You think that all the $$ you spend on some gadget lets you into some exclusive club. You like to think others are barred entry based on this. You are indeed welcome to your perceptions.
What is Reference Quality or World Reference Class anyways? Speaking of class it's something you will never be able to buy;)
Since you have in the past and in this post called me a snob I will reply and assume you are talking directly to me.
I have a very modest system, carefully assembled for maximum synergy and I don;t have anywhere close to amount of $$$ invested in my system that some here do. I'm not faulting those that have more money invested, I would if I chose to, but I don't. I have around $5K invested and I feel it's probably in the top 10% of what most people would consider a top notch rig.
I didn't spend the $$$ to achieve a status or to bolster others perceptions of me........I simply assembled what I think are outstanding sounding pieces into a whole that pleases me beyond what I thought possible.
I am sharing my knowledge and experiences of the past 25yrs + in this hobby. I have very strong opinions and I will continue to express them. For me, as you are wrongly assuming, it's not about boasting but about assembling a high end rig on the lower end of the money tree. Somehow I don;t believe that equates with being a snob.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Told ya that would be a great choice. Monarchy is really good gear for not a lot of money.
H9
The soundstage of M-10 is nothing short of AMAZING! Now all it needs is a proper power cord.SDA-2BTL with custom IC
Adcom 565 monoblocks--Monarchy Audio M-10 preamp
Theta Data Basic Transport--Stello DA100 Signature DAC--Camelot Dragon Pro2 MK III
Harman Kardon T-55c TT
DH Labs Q-10 Signature Speaker Cables With Furez silver plated copper bananas
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver Reference AES/EBU
Revelation Audio Labs Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s digital cable
4 Furutech FP-314Ag with FI-11cu Plugs/FI-11AG IECs--- Power Cords
DH LABS REVELATIONS ICs-amps
Revelation Audio Labs Paradise cryo-silver ICs-Source to pre -
Since you have in the past and in this post called me a snob I will reply and assume you are talking directly to me.
I have a very modest system, carefully assembled for maximum synergy and I don;t have anywhere close to amount of $$$ invested in my system that some here do. I'm not faulting those that have more money invested, I would if I chose to, but I don't. I have around $5K invested and I feel it's probably in the top 10% of what most people would consider a top notch rig.
I didn't spend the $$$ to achieve a status or to bolster others perceptions of me........I simply assembled what I think are outstanding sounding pieces into a whole that pleases me beyond what I thought possible.
I am sharing my knowledge and experiences of the past 25yrs + in this hobby. I have very strong opinions and I will continue to express them. For me, as you are wrongly assuming, it's not about boasting but about assembling a high end rig on the lower end of the money tree. Somehow I don;t believe that equates with being a snob.
H9
It's not your opinion that is the problem. It's that you are disparaging of other views. You and others here simply can't present an argument with out it having to be the 'right' argument.
I have been doing this 'audio' thing since 87 when I picked up a Carver M400 and Crown DC300A. I got rid of the M400 pretty quick. -
TrollPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The soundstage of M-10 is nothing short of AMAZING! Now all it needs is a proper power cord.
Now you're getting a taste of what's on the other side...........you don;t have to spend mega bucks..........you just have to choose wisely.
Enjoy and I hope to hear so more impressions. You could have spent twice what you did on an EMO pre and gotten 1/2 the performance.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
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It's not your opinion that is the problem. It's that you are disparaging of other views. You and others here simply can't present an argument with out it having to be the 'right' argument.
I have been doing this 'audio' thing since 87 when I picked up a Carver M400 and Crown DC300A. I got rid of the M400 pretty quick.
Poor Bob. They called one of his line of products Flame Linear not for nothing !:D -
Is megasat16 on your bozo list as well?
Something wrong with what I said or you don't agree with with what I said he is being an "**** Clown"?
He started this thread about Tone Control and then he steered it to EMOTIVA. What kind of clown does that?Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
tone what?
Did I miss something?
Is it on a pre amp?
Where do you find one?
Does Jesse have one?
I have a volume control,,is that what you mean?
Wait a minute,, I found it,,mine are labeled Tungsram and Siemens--found it:)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
You see the average snob confuses $$ with quality. You think that all the $$ you spend on some gadget lets you into some exclusive club. You like to think others are barred entry based on this. You are indeed welcome to your perceptions.
True, but you do get what you pay for. With smart shopping you can
hit a pretty good sound at a reasonable price, and there always is a market
for that older piece of better gear. The cheap stuff just gets a lot cheaper
as it ages. I've had good luck moving up. The cheap tone controls in a lot
of gear don't impress me much. A really good external EQ might be a different story. But just about any I've been able to sample didn't do it for me.
My current 2 channel doesn't have tone controls. I adjusted my system with
room placement. Done!
I didn't buy it to impress anyone but me. And if it didn't sound good, it wouldn't
still be here. If that makes me a snob, so be it."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote: »True, but you do get what you pay for. With smart shopping you can
hit a pretty good sound at a reasonable price, and there always is a market
for that older piece of better gear. The cheap stuff just gets a lot cheaper
as it ages. I've had good luck moving up. The cheap tone controls in a lot
of gear don't impress me much. A really good external EQ might be a different story. But just about any I've been able to sample didn't do it for me.
My current 2 channel doesn't have tone controls. I adjusted my system with
room placement. Done!
I didn't buy it to impress anyone but me. And if it didn't sound good, it wouldn't
still be here. If that makes me a snob, so be it.
Agreed placement and room treatments always first.
Remember: Some posters hear are saying:
EQ/Tone control are hands down evil. Any one with a differing opinion couldn't possibly be correct. It's a one size fits all mentality that is espoused here. I think people that are coming new to all this deserve to hear a dissenting opinion.
I say if you can get away with it don't use EQ. Get good gear to start, place it properly and correct the room, not the signal. If all that still fails you and you need to tweak a band of audio then go for it. Unless you like the problem portion of your audio spectrum. -
Something wrong with what I said or you don't agree with with what I said he is being an "**** Clown"?
He started this thread about Tone Control and then he steered it to EMOTIVA. What kind of clown does that?
Then report it! -
Tone controls, if needed why doesn't a mid / high range equipment have tone controls?
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
They like to keep the signal as pure as possible, not degrade it."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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disneyjoe7 wrote: »Tone controls, if needed why doesn't a mid / high range equipment have tone controls?
Most likely it is now done by either integrated or external eq... -
Agreed placement and room treatments always first.
I say if you can get away with it don't use EQ. Get good gear to start, place it properly and correct the room, not the signal. If all that still fails you and you need to tweak a band of audio then go for it. Unless you like the problem portion of your audio spectrum.
You understand, but you really didn't express it well. Stick with that
statement and move on.
I don't believe tone controls are evil. Just, for the most part, useless.
By the time I get enough adjustment to reduce the problem, all the
life is out of the music."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
My 2 channel pre doesn't even have tone controls I use my sub gain to add a little more bass if needed. Eq systems are popular on cheap all in one type stereos.
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Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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Most likely it is now done by either integrated or external eq...
I don't think so haven't used a tone control in 20 years or so, and I haven't used a eq never. In my truck stereo yes tones are used due to poor speakers or interior issues, find Bass +1 Mid -1 Highs +2 sounds best, but home system nothing. Right now my pre-amp doesn't even have a tone control, my AVR was pure digital so I'm sure it was no tone control.
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
jinjuku, i started a thread for the sole purpose of a study a few days ago, and you are dealing with a bunch a kids here. some will never get it. this is there life, which is quite sad. this site is a good study on how natzi germany started, and the stupidity needed to accomplish it:) If you want to fit in, agree with all, make fun of others as if you are a 10yr old, and if all else fails put everyone on your ignore list, that will show them:D
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jinjuku, i started a thread for the sole purpose of a study a few days ago, and you are dealing with a bunch a kids here. some will never get it. this is there life, which is quite sad. this site is a good study on how natzi germany started, and the stupidity needed to accomplish it:) If you want to fit in, agree with all, make fun of others as if you are a 10yr old, and if all else fails put everyone on your ignore list, that will show them:D
And you now want to compare the members of this forum to ****'s.... a great way to make friends don't you think?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
some will never get it.
Yes sir, you ARE the prime example. Each and every one of your posts are a testimonial to that sad fact.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
lbristow wrote:jinjuku, i started a thread for the sole purpose of a study a few days ago, and you are dealing with a bunch a kids here. some will never get it. this is there life, which is quite sad. this site is a good study on how natzi germany started, and the stupidity needed to accomplish it:) If you want to fit in, agree with all, make fun of others as if you are a 10yr old, and if all else fails put everyone on your ignore list, that will show them:D
Wow...This has to be one of the largest pile of crap posted in quite some time.
BTW...where is this natzi germany you speak of?
If the result of the purported "study" is presented in the same form as the posts on this forum...then punctuation, spelling and sentence structure alone will warrant a failing grade. That's before substance and coherent thought (or lack thereof) is considered. Of course that may be ok when seeking a degree from fakediplomamill.com...
bye bye..."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
may be ok when seeking a degree from fakediplomamill.com...
bye bye...
And the graduates from the above mentioned schools come to CP and ask for your real credentials when they can't make an educated debate of the products they are rooting for. Oh...the irony! :rolleyes:Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
how natzi germany started
um.....................................................so are tone controls evil? I'm kinda scared here.
I think they might be evil. So I try not to use them. But in the van you kinda have to adjust for every song. That paradigm hits hard in the venture. -
oh yeah, sorry for the thread jack.
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jinjuku, i started a thread for the sole purpose of a study a few days ago, and you are dealing with a bunch a kids here. some will never get it. this is there life, which is quite sad. this site is a good study on how natzi germany started, and the stupidity needed to accomplish it:) If you want to fit in, agree with all, make fun of others as if you are a 10yr old, and if all else fails put everyone on your ignore list, that will show them:D
If you take the opposing viewpoint of the majority, expect pushback.
As far as Audioholics goes, great bunch of guys. I could talk about classic
audio stuff with them all day (and have with a bunch in person).
But really, there's been a lot of great advances in audio since the 70's.
As much as I like the look and fondly remember that stuff, most of it had
real shortcomings. And most of that stuff is going for more money than used
mid-fi, and really needs a full overhaul. There's plenty of sites out there you
could go join that are true flat earthers. Cables, don't need them. Best amps
stopped being made years ago. All digital sources sound the same.
Tubes couldn't sound good. I've heard it all. And people with opposing opinions
were lambasted. Why would you expect different here?
Unfortunately, many here have chosen to push back hard instead of just ingoring you.
We could all find really great links and post them endlessly back
and forth till hell freezes over. And in the end you would still consider me an idiot,
as well as many here would feel the same about you. chill.
You'll have less stress and live longer."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
jinjuku, i started a thread for the sole purpose of a study a few days ago, and you are dealing with a bunch a kids here. some will never get it. this is there life, which is quite sad. this site is a good study on how natzi germany started, and the stupidity needed to accomplish it:) If you want to fit in, agree with all, make fun of others as if you are a 10yr old, and if all else fails put everyone on your ignore list, that will show them:D
Ah, the Asshat has invoked Godwin's law. What a pathetic little troll. Seems he can't come up with his own arguement.
Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of **** Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving **** or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] The term Godwin's law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to "lose" the debate.
Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the **** might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued,[4] that overuse of **** and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.
Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads, wiki talk pages, and Twitter."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Tone controls->Emotiva->Preamps->EQ->****'s->Cat's giving the finger.....wow.
Those 2 (jinjuku+lbristow) can't seem to stay on any given subject for long now can they. Oh well, I guess everyone else here doesn't know real audio like they do since we're not running RCA HTIB's or Emerson shelf systems purchased from Sears that were put on Lay-Away for the last couple of months. :rolleyes:Truck setup
Alpine 9856
Phoenix Gold RSD65CS
For Sale
Polk SR6500
Polk SR5250
Polk SR104Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
