Tone controls are not evil

245

Comments

  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2009
    SolidSqual wrote:
    So you can clean a ****?

    Yes. In fact...you can actually polish a ****.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    shack wrote: »
    Gee....is it not ovbious? We are making fun your OP.

    Why don't you take a look at his site and then come back... I think he knows a thing or two about audio.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote:
    I think he knows a thing or two about audio.

    I've only been tinkering with this audio thing for 40 years or so....I know a thing or two as well.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    shack wrote: »
    I've only been tinkering with this audio thing for 40 years or so....I know a thing or two as well.

    Ya, I have been into it since 87'. He knows more than both of us put together. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote:
    Ya, I have been into it since 87'. He knows more than both of use put together. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.


    HA HA HA...another catchy comeback...

    Did you come up with these all on your own...or did you google them?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2009
    It's been fun...but don't get upset if I don't respond to any more of your stuff...I won't be seeing it. Bye
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    shack wrote: »
    It's been fun...but don't get upset if I don't respond to any more of your stuff...I won't be seeing it. Bye

    Then you won't be seeing this:

    How many speaker arrays have you designed in your 40 years of tinkering? You ever design and have a driver produced?

    Industry is full of old guys that *think* they have seen and done it all.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote: »
    Then you won't be seeing this:

    How many speaker arrays have you designed in your 40 years of tinkering? You ever design and have a driver produced?

    Industry is full of old guys that *think* they have seen and done it all.

    That is not what Shack was implying. Nobody knows it all,but some know more than others. Audio is more or less trial and error with some science thrown in for good measure. Aside from audio being totally subjective,we old timers have learned a thing or two and one is to not take any single article as gospel. The tone control debate has been had before....along with countless cable debates,and we tend to steer clear of them as most around here have moved past tone controls at least a decade or two ago. So your original post my man,is...um....shall we say...boring.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Polk Sig. 20's
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku,
    I think the thing here is that, well, we just kind of fundamentally disagree with our approach to reproducing music. It's not a personal slam on that guy. I have no idea what his credentials are. I just happen to believe that for 2ch reproduction, eq introduces undesirable artifacts to the signal being fed to my amps and speakers. Oh I know that the environment is causing peaks and valley's and that there are other factors that shape the sound. I just feel like avoiding that circuitry all together is the "purist" approach.

    I don't think you are necessarily starting crap, I just think you may be barking up tree that has no coon in it. Some of us rely on our experience to guide us in our quest down this particular path and the really good equipment in this hobby abandons any tone control whatsoever. Why? Because it is only **** the sound up. EQ is a band aid at best and destroys a stereo image and sounds aweful at it's worst.
    Train your ears and I think you will agree.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    vc69 wrote: »
    jinjuku,

    I don't think you are necessarily starting crap, I just think you may be barking up tree that has no coon in it. Some of us rely on our experience to guide us in our quest down this particular path and the really good equipment in this hobby abandons any tone control whatsoever. Why? Because it is only **** the sound up. EQ is a band aid at best and destroys a stereo image and sounds aweful at it's worst.

    Train your ears and I think you will agree.

    Thanks for one of the few really contributory posts. My ears are just fine. My point is that there are so many here will not present both sides of tone control/eq to an inquiring new poster. That is a very large problem here at PF.

    AAE: You have certain members here that bash Emotiva because they dared use the word 'reference' in a marketing slick. But Signal Cable is almost universally well regarded here and they do the same exact thing without being called out for it. It's hypocrisy in the purest sense.

    It's this sort of selective disparaging that really limits what a good community can do all while the new poster not realizing it.

    Why don't you take 3 minutes with a cup of coffee and check out his sight. Come back and tell what kind of guy you think he is. If you have the ability to do, you need no credentials.
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2009
    This message is hidden because jinjuku is on your ignore list.

    :D

    Would like to add though, I don't like/use tone controls.
    Truck setup
    Alpine 9856
    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
    Polk SR6500
    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2009
    i had my tone controls surgically removed :p
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote: »
    Thanks for one of the few really contributory posts. My ears are just fine. My point is that there are so many here will not present both sides of tone control/eq to an inquiring new poster. That is a very large problem here at PF.

    AAE: You have certain members here that bash Emotiva because they dared use the word 'reference' in a marketing slick. But Signal Cable is almost universally well regarded here and they do the same exact thing without being called out for it. It's hypocrisy in the purest sense.

    It's this sort of selective disparaging that really limits what a good community can do all while the new poster not realizing it.

    The Polk Forum has a savior at last...........praise the audio gods.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited October 2009
    heiney9 wrote:
    The Polk Forum has a savior at last...........praise the audio gods.

    Another one??????

    How many does that make THIS week?
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • kawizx9r
    kawizx9r Posts: 5,150
    edited October 2009
    danger boy wrote: »
    i had my tone controls surgically removed :p

    LOL

    laugh.gif
    Truck setup
    Alpine 9856
    Phoenix Gold RSD65CS

    For Sale
    Polk SR6500
    Polk SR5250
    Polk SR104


    heiney9 wrote: »
    Any clue how to use the internet? Found it in about 10 sec.
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    The Polk Forum has a savior at last...........praise the audio gods.

    Doesn't make the hypocrisy any less true H9. So are you saying the Emo bashing didn't go on because they used the word reference but other companies like Signal Cable and B&K (who has an entire line of amps called Reference) are some how audio nirvana?

    4050484427_23acaeb2bc_o.png

    Ya, a few people may need to be saved from snobs like you...
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited October 2009
    Jinju,

    Your thread is about Tone Control, Zaph or Emotiva or Cables or what?

    Don't confuse yourself, man! Don't lose it whatever it is you are holding on to. :)

    Many Companies use the word "Reference" in their product names. But Emotiva Boldly Called Their stuff "Reference Quality" and "World Reference Class" for the cost of a bucket of poo. It's not like Cost Does Matter most of the time because it's not.

    But Cost Does Matter in World Reference Class, You **** Clown!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote: »
    Doesn't make the hypocrisy any less true H9. So are you saying the Emo bashing didn't go on because they used the word reference but other companies like Signal Cable and B&K (who has an entire line of amps called Reference) are some how audio nirvana?

    4050484427_23acaeb2bc_o.png

    Ya, a few people may need to be saved from snobs like you...

    Not for me............I've heard a few Emo pieces and voiced my opinion accordingly. Sure the reference thread got out of hand, but most on this forum know that Emo is positioned to be towards entry level and usually the remarks are made when an Emo owner or enthusiast tries to convince they are much more than what they actually are.

    In the Parasound thread...............I simply voiced my choice. I am not a huge Parasound fan, but I'd choose it over Emo (some Parasound amps I do think are great).

    Sorry you get your panties in a bunch...........over this stuff.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • fbm211
    fbm211 Posts: 1,488
    edited October 2009
    Ive been listening to my new Monarchy audio M-10 pre for the last couple of hours.
    All I have to say is---Tone controls---Who needs them......I dont...anymore.
    SDA-2BTL with custom IC
    Adcom 565 monoblocks--Monarchy Audio M-10 preamp
    Theta Data Basic Transport--Stello DA100 Signature DAC--Camelot Dragon Pro2 MK III
    Harman Kardon T-55c TT
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    4 Furutech FP-314Ag with FI-11cu Plugs/FI-11AG IECs--- Power Cords
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    megasat16 wrote: »
    Jinju,

    Your thread is about Tone Control, Zaph or Emotiva or Cables or what?

    Don't confuse yourself, man! Don't lose it whatever it is you are holding on to. :)

    Many Companies use the word "Reference" in their product names. But Emotiva Boldly Called Their stuff "Reference Quality" and "World Reference Class" for the cost of a bucket of poo. It's not like Cost Does Matter most of the time because it's not.

    But Cost Does Matter in World Reference Class, You **** Clown!


    You see the average snob confuses $$ with quality. You think that all the $$ you spend on some gadget lets you into some exclusive club. You like to think others are barred entry based on this. You are indeed welcome to your perceptions.

    What is Reference Quality or World Reference Class anyways? Speaking of class it's something you will never be able to buy;)
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2009
    i've come to learn that if your system has been set up properly.. you don't need tone controls. i didn't learn that till I had been around you all for couple of month's way back when.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2009
    The thing is, the good stuff does cost money. Period.

    And btw...

    the personal attacks put you on MY bozo list.

    *poof*
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    vc69 wrote: »
    The thing is, the good stuff does cost money. Period.

    And btw...

    the personal attacks put you on MY bozo list.

    *poof*

    Good.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited October 2009
    Face wrote: »
    I believe it's a different John K. than the troll here.

    Indeed it is none other than the one and only John K of Zaph Audio.For those that aren't familiar with him,his speaker (and now driver)designs are very well regarded in the DIY community.I built a pair of his little 2 ways designs myself.http://zaphaudio.com/


    As for tone controls I must confess to having used a single band of parametric EQ to notch out a 50hz peak in my subs in room response.:eek:
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    Not a effing clue
    Not an ounce of class
    Not being jinjuku

    Priceless!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited October 2009
    vc69 wrote: »
    And btw...

    the personal attacks put you on MY bozo list.

    *poof*

    megasat16 wrote: »

    But Cost Does Matter in World Reference Class, You **** Clown!

    Is megasat16 on your bozo list as well?
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited October 2009
    jinjuku wrote: »
    You see the average snob confuses $$ with quality. You think that all the $$ you spend on some gadget lets you into some exclusive club. You like to think others are barred entry based on this. You are indeed welcome to your perceptions.

    What is Reference Quality or World Reference Class anyways? Speaking of class it's something you will never be able to buy;)

    The Average snob here understands what those words mean and what kind of quality one can expect from these. If you don't know, ask EMOTIVA.

    The World Reference Class components may cost only $10 bucks to make but they do worth $10000 coz you pay $9990 for well thought of products and all considerations taken place to be a step above most entry to mid level stuff.

    I hardly see that's the case with EMOTIVA. Yep, I've tried some of it's EMO REFERENCE CLASS!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited October 2009
    fbm211 wrote: »
    Ive been listening to my new Monarchy audio M-10 pre for the last couple of hours.
    All I have to say is---Tone controls---Who needs them......I dont...anymore.

    Told ya that would be a great choice. Monarchy is really good gear for not a lot of money.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    Tone controls are evil.

    That's all.

    Indeed but there are dudes who like adding "color" to what they hear .

    Also some audio purists will consider ICs/PC as some sort of band-aids. :confused:
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited October 2009
    Nobody is drinking the Jin here. It is cheap and leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and causes headaches. JuJu why you still here if you disagree with 90% of what Polkies say? Because you are an instigating asshat(read troll).
    Bye.
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Indeed it is none other than the one and only John K of Zaph Audio.For those that aren't familiar with him,his speaker (and now driver)designs are very well regarded in the DIY community.I built a pair of his little 2 ways designs myself.http://zaphaudio.com/


    As for tone controls I must confess to having used a single band of parametric EQ to notch out a 50hz peak in my subs in room response.:eek:

    Oh I am so disappointed. I can't believe that he is the Zaph Audio guy. I guess different materials used in speakers make things sound different, but not in anything else:rolleyes:
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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