The Bittersweet Sound of Jitter
Comments
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The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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If this is true, the laser would still need to sample the information. Which means its not analog anymore.
Not being a rocket scientist, I do not see why the variation of reflected light could not be directly translated into an analog waveform.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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Three 20 amp circuits. -
Not being a rocket scientist, I do not see why the variation of reflected light could not be directly translated into an analog waveform.
I believe I agree with you. I was wrong. -
I am blown away by the idea of a laser turntable. It's a pretty smart idea. I wonder if they are selling a lot?
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-Kevin
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Transparent IC's -
One of the Laser LP players is setting on Audiogon at a bargain price if somebody is itching....
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?anlgtabl&1256955373
The Stereophile Test CD 2 cut, BTW, is a 11khz ear splitting sine wave which they add jitter to.
Crpyder....here is more on jitter from Robert Harley and Stereophile from 16 years ago...
http://www.stereophile.com/features/368/index.html#
CoolJazzA so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
The real problem more than jitter is the fact that the cd was supposed to be a short term product. The encoding scheme is set up for best effort delivery
with no error correction and limited resolution. This was done to limit the size
of the required media. 650mb off a sigle disc was seen to be a limiting
factor. Now that we have lots of room on discs(DVD, etc.) The concept of
a hard copy is fading, and many want smaller file sizes for their IPOD or other
device. The fact that most music is being downloaded in a low-res format
is killing the possability of a new format. Also, many CDP's have a poor analog section hurts the format. This is more relevant than jitter in my opinion."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Do we really need anymore formats? We already have plenty, some that even exceed CD quality, WAV, FLAC, AIFF, PCM, M4A, etc...sucks2beme wrote: »The fact that most music is being downloaded in a low-res format
is killing the possability of a new format."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
It's been around since the late 80's or early 90's and first developed by Finial,whom I believe later sold the design.I know in it's original form it was plauged with problem's and was very costly to manufacture.I doubt it was much of a market sucess.I am blown away by the idea of a laser turntable. It's a pretty smart idea. I wonder if they are selling a lot?
I agree, regardless of jitter levels a subpar analog stage and power supply design will be a bigger limiting factor.sucks2beme wrote: »Also, many CDP's have a poor analog section hurts the format. This is more relevant than jitter in my opinion.Testing
Testing
Testing -
i agree, regardless of jitter levels a subpar analog stage and power supply design will be a bigger limiting factor.
x 1000
h9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I believe your all a bunch of geeks.
RT1 -
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
How can you say that with such a straight face...ah...Face?? :rolleyes:A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
Cool! I am in the game for the last 4 words.
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Do we really need anymore formats? We already have plenty, some that even exceed CD quality, WAV, FLAC, AIFF, PCM, M4A, etc...
I'm speakong more of the delivery format, rather than encoding.
The industry would like to kill off all hard formats, and make downloading
the only option. Expect all thos easy to use WAV and FLAC formats to die.
If it doesn't include DRM, they aren't going to support it.
Which means you try to copy it or back it up-poof! You HAD some songs
on your system."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote: »with no error correction
From my understanding the data is present 3 times in a row on the disc. The player reads the three and throws out an odd read. Isn't that error correction?
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
From my understanding the data is present 3 times in a row on the disc. The player reads the three and throws out an odd read. Isn't that error correction?
madmax
The data is not on the Cd three times. Cd's use Reed-Solomon error correction. -
The data is not on the Cd three times. Cd's use Reed-Solomon error correction.
Cool, found this. The other garbage I read must have been just that, garbage. :eek:
From Wiki: "ReedSolomon coding is a key component of the compact disc. It was the first use of strong error correction coding in a mass-produced consumer product, and DAT and DVD use similar schemes. In the CD, two layers of ReedSolomon coding separated by a 28-way convolutional interleaver yields a scheme called Cross-Interleaved Reed Solomon Coding (CIRC). The first element of a CIRC decoder is a relatively weak inner (32,28) ReedSolomon code, shortened from a (255,251) code with 8-bit symbols. This code can correct up to 2 byte errors per 32-byte block. More importantly, it flags as erasures any uncorrectable blocks, i.e., blocks with more than 2 byte errors. The decoded 28-byte blocks, with erasure indications, are then spread by the deinterleaver to different blocks of the (28,24) outer code. Thanks to the deinterleaving, an erased 28-byte block from the inner code becomes a single erased byte in each of 28 outer code blocks. The outer code easily corrects this, since it can handle up to 4 such erasures per block.
The result is a CIRC that can completely correct error bursts up to 4000 bits, or about 2.5 mm on the disc surface. This code is so strong that most CD playback errors are almost certainly caused by tracking errors that cause the laser to jump track, not by uncorrectable error bursts"Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Cool, found this. The other garbage I read must have been just that, garbage. :eek:
From Wiki: "ReedSolomon coding is a key component of the compact disc. It was the first use of strong error correction coding in a mass-produced consumer product, and DAT and DVD use similar schemes. In the CD, two layers of ReedSolomon coding separated by a 28-way convolutional interleaver yields a scheme called Cross-Interleaved Reed Solomon Coding (CIRC). The first element of a CIRC decoder is a relatively weak inner (32,28) ReedSolomon code, shortened from a (255,251) code with 8-bit symbols. This code can correct up to 2 byte errors per 32-byte block. More importantly, it flags as erasures any uncorrectable blocks, i.e., blocks with more than 2 byte errors. The decoded 28-byte blocks, with erasure indications, are then spread by the deinterleaver to different blocks of the (28,24) outer code. Thanks to the deinterleaving, an erased 28-byte block from the inner code becomes a single erased byte in each of 28 outer code blocks. The outer code easily corrects this, since it can handle up to 4 such erasures per block.
The result is a CIRC that can completely correct error bursts up to 4000 bits, or about 2.5 mm on the disc surface. This code is so strong that most CD playback errors are almost certainly caused by tracking errors that cause the laser to jump track, not by uncorrectable error bursts"
None of which has the slightest thing to do with jitter however. Just to make sure that left turn was followed by the casual reader...A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
This code is so strong that most CD playback errors are almost certainly caused by tracking errors that cause the laser to jump track, not by uncorrectable error bursts"
There's a subject of some debate.
But it still never re-reads the data. Either way, though, the format
has taken a lot of heat over it's shortcomings. Like sand Vs. Glass,
The debate won't be settled here. I don't know how much jitter is
really there. Nor do I care. I know that better CDP's and Better DACS
seem to have good power supplies and good analog design.
I think that if a transport of a CDP is of a certain minimum quality,
the analog section of the CDP/DAC output is where all the real difference
in sound comes from. Even older DACS chips coupled with good design
at the analog level sound good. I get WAAAY to much in the way of
tech headaches every day to get too deep into this."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
