The Bittersweet Sound of Jitter
Cpyder
Posts: 514
I've looked everywhere. I'd like a digital sample of what a jitterless piece of music sounds like and then one with jitter present.
Everywhere I've looked, people just start explaining what jitter is and then give some articles on the topic. This is exactly what I don't want.
I'd like someone to post an example of what jitter really sounds like, whether it be test tones or music.
Thank you so much!
Everywhere I've looked, people just start explaining what jitter is and then give some articles on the topic. This is exactly what I don't want.
I'd like someone to post an example of what jitter really sounds like, whether it be test tones or music.
Thank you so much!
Post edited by Cpyder on
Comments
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Play the same disc in a cheap POS CDP and then in a $10K CDP, you will hear what you seek.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That shrill sound that makes it difficult to stomach the highs on CDs played on a cheap player...that's pretty nasty at higher volumes!
What I can't understand is that with all of the fantastic developments in PC power and processing...why can't we produce a cheaper CDP that virtually elimninates jitter? It would seem possible to design something that is not prohibitively expensive. All you would need is some sophisticated programing that monitored jitter and other feedback 'errors' and corrected them instantaneously along with some primo DACs.
Am I wrong...or is somebody missing at the wheel?
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
All you would need is some sophisticated programing that monitored jitter and other feedback 'errors' and corrected them instantaneously along with some primo DACs.
Technology costs money.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
They're coming, give it time."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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That shrill sound that makes it difficult to stomach the highs on CDs played on a cheap player...that's pretty nasty at higher volumes!
What I can't understand is that with all of the fantastic developments in PC power and processing...why can't we produce a cheaper CDP that virtually elimninates jitter? It would seem possible to design something that is not prohibitively expensive. All you would need is some sophisticated programing that monitored jitter and other feedback 'errors' and corrected them instantaneously along with some primo DACs.
Am I wrong...or is somebody missing at the wheel?
cnh
It's called a turntable. I have not listened to a CD in the house since I went back to black.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
The last thing I worry about in audio is jitter.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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That shrill sound that makes it difficult to stomach the highs on CDs played on a cheap player...that's pretty nasty at higher volumes!
That's not jitter. Try this site, they test many players for jitter levels:
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
You have to register to read the reports. The results are quite suprising. For example, the best they tested was the Benchmark DAC1 PRE at 32psec. Others tested - Musical Fidelity A5.5 118psec, Rega Saturn 204psec, Sony BDP-S300 122psec, etc.
The only players that seem to have really high levels, were high end, high priced players, but even then, only a couple of them. Go figure. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »It's called a turntable. I have not listened to a CD in the house since I went back to black.
Trade jitter for rumble, pops, clicks, skips, etc.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
depends on the quality of the table, stylus, the LP and the volume it is being played at... Just like the CD players.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Anything less than 150ps is inaudible unlike rumble, pops, clicks, skips, etc.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
agreed Jesse, but at the volumes I listen and with the newer vinyl in my collection, I cannot hear the noises anyway, unless I need to get up off my **** and clean the stylus.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Does SACD/DVD-A have jitter?SRT For Life; SDA Forever!
The SRT SEISMIC System:
Four main satellite speakers, six powered subs, two dedicated for LFE channel, two center speakers for over/under screen placement and three Control Centers. Amaze your friends, terrorize your neighbors, seize the audio bragging rights for your state. Go ahead, buy it; you only go around once. -
Does SACD/DVD-A have jitter?
Yes. Definitely.
And as far as switching between players to determine the jitter that is present, I'd think other variables would be more noticeable such as harmonic distortion and the like, thus I wouldn't know if I was hearing jitter or other distortions. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »agreed Jesse, but at the volumes I listen and with the newer vinyl in my collection, I cannot hear the noises anyway, unless I need to get up off my **** and clean the stylus.
Same here--Actually since I got my TT, I've only ever played old/used vinyl and heard the pops, clicks, etc--to an annoying degree actually even on what appears to be pristine vinyl. I figured that I just needed to learn how to properly clean the vinyl or perhaps replace the stylus or something.
Then the other day I bought a brand spanking new copy of Slipknot Vol 3 Subliminal Verses (vinyl of course) and to my utter shock and awe--I heard no such thing--completely dead silent background--and I had it turned up.
Now I'm siked to either get my old albums cleaned or buy some more new stuff.
I'd say to hear something with and without jitter (or attempt to anyway), compare Vinyl (pure analog) or perhaps even analog tape, to CD. Or perhaps do some listening comparisons with and without a highly rated DAC and /or Jitter reducer and see if that makes a difference.
Not sure if jitter makes its way into file from a ripped CD (assuming FLAC or raw WAV) or not, or if it only happens at playback time, or even if hard drive based files can have thier own jitter induced
.
Honestly I can't say I know what jitter sounds like.____________________
This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.
HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
Pool: Atrium 60's/45's -
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I've got to agree with nooshinjohn and mmadden28 on this. Ever since I've gotten into vinyl, I don't hardly ever listen to cds anymore. I thouroughly clean my records and they hardly ever make a snap, crackle, and pop, and have extremely quiet backgrounds. I don't have a several thousand dollar cd player and would probably listen to my cds more if I did, but to me the richness and life-like quality of vinyl is hard to beat. No jitter there!
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I'd like someone to post an example of what jitter really sounds like, whether it be test tones or music.
http://www.stereophile.com/features/338/index14.html
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
There is one thing us old vinyl junkies have that the CD folks will never have, a huge selection of great old tunes that will never be recorded on CD.
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Every technology has it's drawbacks. The best way to hear the music the way it was intended is to go "source-direct" and see a concert once in a while.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I saw this guy trying to pour a drink one day he had more jitters than any cheap CDP.
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I saw this guy trying to pour a drink one day he had more jitters than any cheap CDP.
Had we met?-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
Maybe we have met but that guy is dead now.
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Trade jitter for rumble, pops, clicks, skips, etc.
Must not have your TT set-up properly and are playing dirty album's....
LOVE vinyl! MUCH MUCH better than digital media IMHO
I have less than $250 invested in my TT set-up, including a professional tune-up 
Media Room 7.1
Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100
HTPC
Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX
A fool and his money are easily parted
I don't drink Koolaid
Need some cable's? Just ask
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I'm one of the lucky ones.-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »Must not have your TT set-up properly and are playing dirty album's....
Don't have a turntable. Been there, done that. For me, it is not worth the time, effort, or money.
Granted, new records sound great, but every time you play a record you do damage to it. It is impossible to argue otherwise. After you play the record enough, the damage becomes audible. Of course, this assumes you never drop a record, bump into the turntable while it is in use and the stylus slides over the record, or do something else that damages the fragile, delicate record.
As you say, you are still learning.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
You could play an album countless time's and if you have a properly set-up table, good stylus (meaning one with a good tip not a high price) and take proper care of the album it will last as long as you need it to.
I will agree with you that vinyl is consumable but don't over exaggerate thing's, please. Media Room 7.1
Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100
HTPC
Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX
A fool and his money are easily parted
I don't drink Koolaid
Need some cable's? Just ask
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Any disc source with a laser is prone to errors.
Interesting. They made a laser that reads vinyl and from what I understand it reads it too well.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Vinyl is the wave of the future. We should try to leave that old CD technology where it belongs, in a computer...
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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Interesting. They made a laser that reads vinyl and from what I understand it reads it too well.
If this is true, the laser would still need to sample the information. Which means its not analog anymore. -
What does Vinyl and BluRay has in common? I am sure BluRay discs will be the mainstream media for music and all things digital in the near future.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
