constant non stereo imballance
Comments
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I appreciate everyones input and certainly have some avenues to be checking. I will get back latter with the titles of some CD's that are real HEAVY on one side. If needed I can make a copy and see what results others get. Seems kinda mixed bag. Sounds if some have had same issues with some CD's. And others to the liking of a bad set up. Time will tell and all suggestions appreciated. Thanks.
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OK gentlemen. I'm really confused now. I inverted L&R on back of amp. Standing up in front of couch on axis. If I sit down on couch and lean forward on axis. If I lean back to full seating position it goes HEAVY LEFT again even though I have inverted L&R.I'm at a loss. Twisting my brain!! Current CD playing is Metalica " ST. Anger ". Not my favorite band but it is one of the heavy left so that is what I am using. Open to suggestions.
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OK gentlemen. I'm really confused now. I inverted L&R on back of amp. Standing up in front of couch on axis. If I sit down on couch and lean forward on axis. If I lean back to full seating position it goes HEAVY LEFT again even though I have inverted L&R.I'm at a loss. Twisting my brain!! Current CD playing is Metalica " ST. Anger ". Not my favorite band but it is one of the heavy left so that is what I am using. Open to suggestions.
I've got that song in one of my CD's (Metallica fan here) and by no means is it as heavy as you describe. I did find music in itself to be a bit heavy on my left side, but that was fixed by moving both speakers over to the left a bit. Might have been something about the shorter wall on the left as opposed to the longer wall on the right with a bookcase up against it.
By no means am I an expert but I'd say move a few things around
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I have St. Anger. It is not heavy left or right. Good mix actually.
Krazy1, everybody is making the right suggestions.
Eliminate one pair of speakers. Two pair is destroying your image.
Lose the EQ, unless properly set using a spectrum analyzer, it is destroying the image.
The chair and lamp are definitely adversely affecting the image.
Just try those things and see if there is an improvement. I'm betting a case of internet champagne there will be.
-Kevin
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I suspect all balance/image issues are coming from the EQ too. :cool:"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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From your room picture, I would suggest disabling the inner L+R speakers and have a listen. The outer ones might be better positioned to use for testing without having to move them based on the listening position distance.
Without giving any long winded explanations of what might be happening as well as not having time to compose the information, you would be better off using one pair of speakers to generate the stereo image. Sell the other pair with the current subs and invest in one or two substantial subs (SVS, Epic, Hsu etc ) to create the concert environment I believe you are trying to replicate.
As for your system components, use whatever floats your boat. I would rethink the EQ settings as they appear to be all over the place to extreme degrees. My suggestions would be to force yourself to listen to music with the EQs disabled for a couple of weeks. No cheating by flipping between using and not using them. It would sound strange at first, but you might find you like it better. You may also decide you only need little adjustments after the couple of weeks.
Arthur SchopenhauerAll truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
My pre has a balance control but no tone controls. I also have my speakers placed within 1/8 inch accuracy. This is an absolute necessity with an ESL. My room has a large opening on the left wall going into the dining area which forces me to bump the balance to the left a tad to maintain a center image at my listening position.
You have a balance control, why not use it to compensate for room imbalance?
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sTIDO NOT UNDERSTAND ISSUE OF 2 SPEAKERS PER SIDE. iT'S CALLED SOUND SATURATION.
Ummm sorry, but that's called a wall of bad sound due to cancellation issues.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
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OK gentlemen. I'm really confused now. I inverted L&R on back of amp. Standing up in front of couch on axis. If I sit down on couch and lean forward on axis. If I lean back to full seating position it goes HEAVY LEFT again even though I have inverted L&R.I'm at a loss. Twisting my brain!! Current CD playing is Metalica " ST. Anger ". Not my favorite band but it is one of the heavy left so that is what I am using. Open to suggestions.
I'm the one that's confused.
First you start a thread saying that the sound engineers need to do a better job at mastering CDs. Then you say it used to sound perfect until furniture was moved around.
Then people give you plenty of suggestions and reasons why you're hearing what you're hearing, and yet you defend your choice of EQ and 2-speakers per side saying it's great.
Well... to me it doesn't sound like it's working out too good for you. My suggestion would be to listen to some of the people here -- they really do know what they're talking about.
And it really would be a good idea to try and work the room so you do not have a chair right in between the speakers, if at all possible. I have a wife, and I don't have a chair in between my speakers... just sayin'
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this one is definetely two bags of popcorn bag and a full two-liter on ice kind of deal.
RT1 -
I believe Iv'e been givin some good suggestions , and am willing to try them. Can someone in laymens terms explain the issue with 2 speakers per side. I did a total re-check of positioning and speaker distance is within a 1/16. Cant get time arrival any closer. And someone is basically suggesting the subs are less than parr. I thought they got a pretty good review on polk's site. That's why I purchased them....... And YES I DO have a RTA. A PHONIC PAA6.
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Your problem is the fact that you have two pairs of speakers in front, which can and will create phasing issues nearly all the time. Also, you have a chair and a table in-between your speakers. I noticed that the chair is a little closer to the right side speakers, which could easily account for the left channel being louder, due to the chair being a lot more absorbent than the table.
You have room issues...it's not due to the recordings.
How far are your speakers from the sidewalls? If they aren't the same distance, that could account for the stage shifting.
Get that chair the hell out of there, and go down to one pair of speakers in the front. You aren't really gaining anything with multiple pairs IMO. Sell one pair of A9's and use that money to upgrade your amp/pre etc...you'd get more gains from a better front end than multiple pairs of speakers.The nirvana inducer-
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OK. Both EQ'S OFF. Gotta go to a birthday party. When I get back I'll cut 2 speakers , and move chair and end table and give it a listen. You can't tell by the photos but on RH side is a fireplace. To the left of LH speakers is a little foyer when coming in the house. Could that " open area " coming into house and side wall with fire place be contributing factors to the issues?????
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OK. Both EQ'S OFF. Gotta go to a birthday party. When I get back I'll cut 2 speakers , and move chair and end table and give it a listen. You can't tell by the photos but on RH side is a fireplace. To the left of LH speakers is a little foyer when coming in the house. Could that " open area " coming into house and side wall with fire place be contributing factors to the issues?????
You got it now. Talk is over. Time to experiment. -
Chair , lamp , end table removed from room
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Gotta run but running outer only sounds pretty center. Engaged 1 EQ at a time and didn't seem to effect centering.Is there a feasable way to run 2 speakers per side without issues????
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Gotta run but running outer only sounds pretty center. Engaged 1 EQ at a time and didn't seem to effect centering.Is there a feasable way to run 2 speakers per side without issues????
If they were shorter i might suggest trying to stack them... but in your case, i don't think so.
I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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Two speakers per side and stacking are both wrong in many ways.concealer404 wrote: »If they were shorter i might suggest trying to stack them... but in your case, i don't think so."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Gotta run but running outer only sounds pretty center.
If you mean that the soundstage has now mostly between the speakers, you'll have to play with the speaker placement like toe in and distance between them to find the best results.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
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jm1 was correct that GRAPHIC was set up bad. Done in haste when I took the carvers out and put in the Crown.It is now pretty well tuned and may get a round 2. The SAE was meticulously tuned over a year ago. I'm just use to 4 speakers. My 1st system had JVC SK-1000II on the bottom and JVC SK-600's stacked on top. I alwayes loved the sound saturation and power of four speakers. I know it can be done because I was running all four before and was PERFECT , untill wife decided to re arange the couch and sweet spot was center seat , and now can't duplicate without issues. Well maybe thats not exactly true. I was running 2 Carver M-400's. 1 for L , 1 for R. As for the subs , I LOVE them. Les than week old and maybe 30 hrs. max on them. If some one can come up with a reasonable way to run all 4 A9's I'm all ears. Ultimately that is what I would like to go back to but without the axis issue. I may plug other pair back in now chair , lamp , end table no longer exists in the room and take a listen and cross my fingers. Anybody rooting for me??? LOL
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jm1 was correct that GRAPHIC was set up bad. Done in haste when I took the carvers out and put in the Crown.It is now pretty well tuned and may get a round 2. The SAE was meticulously tuned over a year ago. I'm just use to 4 speakers. My 1st system had JVC SK-1000II on the bottom and JVC SK-600's stacked on top. I alwayes loved the sound saturation and power of four speakers. I know it can be done because I was running all four before and was PERFECT , untill wife decided to re arange the couch and sweet spot was center seat , and now can't duplicate without issues. Well maybe thats not exactly true. I was running 2 Carver M-400's. 1 for L , 1 for R. As for the subs , I LOVE them. Les than week old and maybe 30 hrs. max on them. If some one can come up with a reasonable way to run all 4 A9's I'm all ears. Ultimately that is what I would like to go back to but without the axis issue. I may plug other pair back in now chair , lamp , end table no longer exists in the room and take a listen and cross my fingers. Anybody rooting for me??? LOL
I think you need some SDA's, then you'll agree that you only need 2 speakers in the room Truck setup
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Two speakers per side and stacking are both wrong in many ways.
Agreed... but given the choice, i'd rather have to "live with" stacking over two per side.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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If some one can come up with a reasonable way to run all 4 A9's I'm all ears. Ultimately that is what I would like to go back to but without the axis issue. I may plug other pair back in now chair , lamp , end table no longer exists in the room and take a listen and cross my fingers. Anybody rooting for me??? LOL
What exactly do 4 of the same speakers give you, that 2 can't? (aside from massive phasing issues)
It's a bit like using 2 microphones, it doesn't make you twice as loud, but does allow for cancellation of each other. I'm not doubting you liked what you heard before, I just believe the results will be better-all around, with just one pair of speakers.
If you still want to stick to your guns, and press on....try eq'ing the two pairs differently. It will still have phasing issues, but the cancellation opportunities should be fewer.
Also, I'd look into some acoustic treatments of the room. They make LOTS of problems go away. -
I'm rooting that you'll head on down to your local Hifi shop and listen to what a 2 channel set up is suppose to sound like because right now I think you're a bit lost.
I mean that in the best possible way.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Gonna do a total new set up in AM. Noticing RH speaker partialy radiating into wifes lazy boy. Figure that absorbtion factor on THAT chair could be adding to the issue. Gonna shift left to clear lazy boy and narrow the spread on speakers and give it a whirl with 2 speakers and NO EQ and go from there. Everyone has been very pleasant and helpful , and it is much appreciated.......It appears to me and I may be wrong , but it seems like for most people that contributed EQ is a NASTY WORD. wHY?????
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F1nut.. I appreciate your backing in the best possible way. Maybe I'm striving for something thats not possible or over kill on finding perfection. Internet champagne for EVERYONE. Atleast some progress forward has happened and thats a plus. Thanks to all. Will give a update some time wed. Hopefully something everyone will want to hoot and hollar!!!!! LOL
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What is a SDA???
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I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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Krazyz1, i too have been having trouble with left/right stereo imbalance. seems like every CD i listen to is heavy on either left or right. esp the Beatles remasters. I never used to have this problem.
then I played a track off of Fleetwood Mac remaster and it sounded in balance again... it's hit or miss with my 2ch SDA rig.
In my case.. I believe my integrated amp is the culprit. I'm not getting any signs from the amp that anything in wrong... like static or crackling.. but, when I work the balance knob left and right then press the CD select button a few times.. things seem to go back into balance on some CD's. but not the Beatles remasters.
So in my case... I think my amp is the problem. In the next few days i'll be removing that amp from the system and trying another amp. if I have the same problem with a different amp and pre amp combo.. then it's for me room acoustics or a possible bad interconnect.
if you have a second amp or a way to remove your current amp from the mix and try out another one.. i suggest that to you.PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
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What is a SDA???
Stereo Dimensional Array, it became Matt Polk's Signature Reference Speaker, quite revered by many who frequent this forum.
well, glad to see you are making a bit of progress Mr. Krazy, for a bit I thought we might be heading for a cardboard box with a hole in it.....
I will just sit back down in my lawn chair and watch this one.
RT1
