CASINO ROYALE COLLECTOR'S EDITION (Blu-ray; MGM/Columbia)

Mike LoManaco

Studio Name: MGM/Columbia (Sony Pictures Home Entertainment)
MPAA Rating: PG-13
Disc/Transfer Information: 1080p High Definition; 2.40:1 Widescreen; Region 1 (U.S.) Release
Tested Audio Track: English Dolby TrueHD 5.1
Director: Martin Campbell
Starring Cast: Daniel Craig, Eva Green, Jeffrey Wright


"...the best Bond in the franchise's history..."


LoMANACO'S PLOT ANALYSIS:

In going back to review 2006's Casino Royale on Blu-ray, there are some monumental "lines" I am crossing personally -- the main one being the fact that I am going back on a static, concrete rule that I swore to never break again. After being burned with many "double" and sometimes "triple" dips of titles I already owned on DVD but re-bought on Blu, I swore to never do it again and to continue just buying brand-new material on the high definition format. By "burned" I mean that for the most part, these re-bought titles simply didn't hold up in the audio and video departments; the experlatives I could lather on here are daunting, but most weren't worth the "upgrade" at all. After hearing similar reports from fellow reviewer friends in the industry and reading reviews in home theater hobbyist publications of "catalog" titles (reissued older films and such), my tendency to lean towards not replacing anything I already have on DVD was pushed a bit further.

That was, until one of those DVDs simply couldn't be watched any longer -- hence, enter my issue with Casino Royale. Perhaps it was from the countless repeat viewings of this title, but my standard definition 2-Disc Widescreen Edition DVD version of the film has been scratched so badly, my Panasonic player won't read it after the opening chase sequence in Madagascar. This DVD was purchased before Blu-ray was popular or even "debugged" and the format wars were still on with HD DVD, but you know something? It was one of the absolute best looking and sounding DVDs I had in my collection, with bright, vibrant colors on the 2.40:1 transfer that exhibited little to no noise or compression artifacts, and an absolutely kick-**** Dolby Digital 5.1 surround mix that shook the foundations of my room. I am going to get to an entire comparison between the DVD and Blu-ray later in the review, under the audio and video performance sections...unfortunately, I had to recently put my DVD copy of this awesome actioneer out to pasture because of the freezing and skipping issues the scratches caused. In going against one of my cardinal rules of this profession and hobby, I replaced it with the second release of the title on Blu-ray, the so-called "Collector's Edition." In addition to a swap from Uncompressed PCM audio to Dolby TrueHD, the Collector's Edition includes a plethora of extras on a second disc and many more interactive goodies, if that's your thing. The 2-disc DVD version had all the Bond you can ask for in terms of extras, so this seemed a bit redundant to me.

As for the second thing I am "going back on," well, after serious consideration, I feel I should reel in my statements regarding these remakes and such for a "new generation" a bit -- it's been my personal opinion up until now that the (mostly) horror remakes of late have been catering to a mindless, self-absorbed, drug-induced young audience to introduce them to a "new take" on a given franchise...but after viewing and loving both Royale and its followup, Quantum of Solace, I have come to realize that perhaps I fall into the camp of "new audience" for James Bond. I wasn't really raised on classic Bond, and although I have seen them all and I totally appreciate the fans who say there is no Bond but Connery or perhaps Moore, I really dig Daniel Craig in the role. So, in essence, I am saying that perhaps I am guilty of being a "new generation fan" of this Bond portrayed by Craig -- and this can easily be seen by classic diehard fans as inappropriate or perhaps "misleading."

But let's get to Martin Campbell's re-injection of testosterone into the Double O Seven franchise -- while sharing the title with an earlier Bond "installment" (if you even want to call it that), Casino Royale took the franchise in a new direction and was instantly called one of the best films of '06 while finding unparalleled following when it came out on home video. Home Theater cited it as the best-selling Blu-ray of the time and video editor Geoffrey Morrison made comments to the fact that it was one of the best Bond films of all time, let down on Blu-ray only by the fact that Sony put too much blatant product placement in the film. And that's true. Everywhere you look, there's a Sony Blu-ray player being shown, or one of their phones being used...it's a bit excessive. The decision to go with a fair-haired, blue-eyed Agent 007 raised a lot of eyebrows with diehard fans -- but it ended up working in many people's opinions.

The first thing director Martin Campbell did with re-inventing the franchise (so to speak) was to eliminate (thankfully) some of the heavy-handed and campy silliness that transpired in some of the older films -- gone were the ridiculous holographic video game matches with the villain and the hammy, almost-comical sequences during the Pierce Brosnan run. Craig, being seen in under-the-radar titles like Layer Cake, plays the role as cold and steely as ice in the veins -- here, for the first time, was a Bond that could be emotionally hurt even through the shield of brawn and machine-like skills. Not only could he be hurt emotionally, but the stunts this time around were much more realistic than in the past -- "physically possible," as they have been described. Bond now shows up with scars, scrapes and body damage evidence like any other human would if they went through what he did -- and this was a refreshing change in the series. "Hurt emotionally" refers to a Bond that actually fell for and trusted a woman, letting his guard down and learning a valuable lesson for it. In my opinion, Craig plays it perfectly.

Campbell needed to bring things "up to speed" in creating this new entry in the long-running franchise, so he turned to producers and screenwriters that came up with a plot involving Agent 007 being "reinstated" by M (Judi Dench) back to "Double O" status after he makes the two necessary kills. In an eerily effective black and white opening sequence, we witness one of those kills when Bond waits for one of his agents to return home after selling secrets behind MI6's back. The sequence explains how Bond did away with the backstabbing agent's contact in flashback scenes, while completing his second kill by rubbing out the traitor of their organization.

From there, a very effective title sequence rips across the screen, going along to "You Know My Name" by Chris Cornell; as any Bond fan knows, the opening sequence of these films are crucial in conveying the tone and feel to follow -- the best example of this was Madonna's opening track for Die Another Day even though the film was horrible. Casino Royale's followup, Quantum, didn't have nearly the same kind of effective opening sequence track, relying on a rather anemic "Another Way to Die" by Alicia Keys.

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED BELOW...

Mike LoManaco

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED...

Some have called the plot that follows in Casino Royale a bit daunting to follow with tremendous holes in coherency if you pay attention, but I feel it's actually easier to follow than Quantum was. We are introduced to the new villain this time around, played by Mads Mikkelsen, a ruthless, facially-scarred banker to the world's terrorists. Known as "Le Chiffre," he is seen, in the first scene, traveling to Mbale, Uganda, where he and a cohort known as "Mr. White" are promising to take care of a certain warlord/terrorist's money for him. With the millions in his care, Le Chiffre instead decides to take his obsession with poker and use his client's money to play cards, setting up a high-stakes game at Casino Royale in Montenegro.

Meanwhile, Bond (Craig) is in Madagascar hunting and chasing down a known bomb maker in an exciting sequence that leaves you almost breathless after all the running these guys do -- in events that begin to connect with one another, in classic Bond style, Craig finds this bomb maker's cell phone history which leads him to Nassau in the Bahamas, where he begins hunting down another Le Chiffre associate. This is all being done without the authorization of MI6 or M, who feels Bond has become an unstable element with no regard for orders after he killed the bomb maker instead of bringing him in for questioning. The first "Bond Girl" is introduced, the gorgeous wife of this Le Chiffre associate in the Bahamas, and after sleeping with her and chasing her husband to Miami and killing him off, Craig uncovers a plot to blow up a prototype aircraft at Miami International Airport. This is all connected to Le Chiffre, who put a ton of his client's money into betting against the stock market for this new aircraft launch, being that he's the one that set up the bombing.

Once the plot to destroy the new plane is foiled by Bond, and with Le Chiffre out the money, he reteams with M in the Bahamas to learn that the woman he slept with has been killed by whatever organization is behind all this. M gives him inside information about Le Chiffre and sends him on his next official assignment: Go to Montenegro to infiltrate Le Chiffre's high stakes poker game, with the hope of getting him to talk and rat all the world's terrorists out which he works with. On the way, he meets Vesper Lynd (Eva Green), working for the treasury that's funding Bond's stakes in the game. As the two of them spend more time with each other at Casino Royale, pretending to be a wealthy married couple, a love interest develops, which becomes a pivotal point in this film and the next, Quantum of Solace.

M puts Bond in the game because apparently he is the best poker player in MI6's service roster; but as it goes in the spy world, Le Chiffre and his people discover who Bond really is after hours and hours of grueling poker playing. The poker sequences slow the film down a bit, but to watch Le Chiffre and Bond play a cat-and-mouse mind game with each other as they try to figure out each other's next move, is almost nail-biting. Jeffrey Wright plays an American CIA involvement, also in the game to get to Le Chiffre, and his character carries over to the next film as well.

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED BELOW...

Mike LoManaco

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED...

If anything, Casino Royale is a bit too long and Quantum of Solace almost feels relieving at a much-less-daunting hour and forty minutes; the plot splinters into Bond's "trusted contact" at Casino Royale, Mathis, apparently ratting him out to Le Chiffre, then a torture sequence when Le Chiffre wants his money back after Bond defeats him in poker, which leads to Bond and Vesper taking their love affair to the next level in romantic sequences and eventually the final plot twist involving Vesper not really being who she says she is. Apparently, the whole time, she has been "working" for the organization behind Le Chiffre -- the big enchilada known as "Quantum" which is of course explored in the followup. But there's even more to this story, and the final sequence in an imploding building in Italy lays it all out, with Bond finally getting to the link behind all this...Mr. White. This is, of course, where Quantum picks up, with White in the trunk of Bond's Aston Martin as he races through the streets of Siena, Italy.

Craig's Bond let himself be open to emotional vulnerability, putting his guard down for falling in love and then getting betrayed -- even on the verge of resigning from active duty with MI6. But there are just so many other underlying themes here that it all gets a bit blurry -- when we meet Craig as Bond in the next film, his rage and anger at who is behind all this and the fact that Vesper "betrayed" him makes him a completely different character than at the end of Royale. As it is with this genre of cinema, it can all get so confusing and hazy...White was behind the introduction between Le Chiffre and the terrorists in Uganda in the beginning...but while we're lead to believe Le Chiffre is the big cheese in all this, there's a strange man with glasses who meets Green (Vesper) in order to steal the money taken from Bond's winnings at Casino Royale who appears to be the real boss behind it all -- and of course, it's still Le Chiffre's millions that were taken, yet taken from his clients who want to kill him. But then, we're lead to believe White is the person behind it all, as Bond's final confrontation and subsequent beginning of Quantum suggests -- of course, we learn that there's yet another mastermind in this organization in the form of Dominic Greene in Quantum.

A problem I had with Royale was actually the choice of a new Bond Girl in the form of Eva Green -- this chick is neither sexy nor attractive in any sense of the word, but if modern cinema is taking a page from The Dark Knight's replacement for Katie Holmes, I'm out of the loop. There's also an issue with the redundant "getting nowhere" theme regarding Bond and his search for the truth behind this organization -- in my view, the ending of Quantum didn't seal this up at all even though it was supposed to, and the character's constant hunt for more and bigger members of this group across all corners of the world gets daunting over two motion pictures. I could go on and on about seemingly obvious plot holes in these two films, but let me just say that I thoroughly enjoyed Casino Royale and have learned to really like Quantum of Solace, and both have received countless hours of repeat play time in my system. I am looking forward to Craig's next entry in the franchise, which has been greenlighted for pre-production.

Now, let's take a look at the Blu-ray as compared to the DVD version in the following categories, because there's a great deal to say on that matter:

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED BELOW...

Mike LoManaco

CASINO ROYALE REVIEW CONTINUED...

VIDEO QUALITY:

Okay. First, let me point out that the DVD transfer of Casino Royale never left me wanting, and depending on the sequence or shot, the quality bordered on almost HD-like. Greens were saturated and rich, and the outdoor sequences in the Bahamas were stunning with detail galore for standard definition. Some artifact elements, noise and poor shadow detail crept in, but it was suitable and acceptable for DVD. I never had an issue with the DVD release, and if it weren't for the damaged disc, I wouldn't have bothered switching to the Blu-ray.

From the very opening black and white sequence with Bond and the double-crossing fellow agent, there is more detail on the 1080p Blu-ray, but from start to finish, this disc doesn't really look tremendously better than the DVD, and I said that when I first rented the Blu-ray version years back. The same issues that plague the DVD in the exact same spots appear on the Blu-ray but in different ways; the opening sequence, while intentional, is grainy and it's heightened by the 1080p encode. The sequences in Casino Royale looked pretty crummy on the DVD with macroblocking in the blacks and noise in the closeups of the poker table -- on the Blu-ray, these sequences appeared soft and unremarkable.

The sequences that looked great on DVD look the same or better -- these include most of the outdoor shots such as when Bond arrives in the Bahamas. The DVD looked stellar in these scenes, and the Blu-ray takes this up a notch with tremendous detail in the faces and an even more electric glow to the greens of the palm trees. A closeup of the dead wife Bond sleeps with in the Bahamas as she rocks in a hammock looks almost dimensional to the point that the sand on her face can almost land in your living room. Other video demo moments from the DVD include Bond coming out of the ocean, Bond lying with Vesper in the sand at the end and White being shot in the leg in the final sequence -- these were all enhanced with unreal detail and clarity. Still, I cannot help but feel that the DVD, too, was great-looking and satisfying enough on so many levels. The Venice shootout at the end exhibited some eye-popping detail when the shots of the outside of the collapsing building were onscreen...you could almost make out every piece of rock and concrete in the structure.

But those aforementioned interior sequences within Casino Royale were as disappointing as on the DVD; the image at certain points collapsed into an almost DVD-like level of softness that really took me out of the experience. At the end of the day, I have to say that of you already own Casino Royale on DVD, this is not worth the upgrade if you're playing it on a good upconverting deck. It looks good, sure -- but it just doesn't best the DVD all that much.

AUDIO QUALITY:

The audio was a disappointment -- but let me explain what we're dealing with here, first. The Dolby Digital 5.1 track on the DVD version was absolutely wall-rattling with wallops of LFE in the action sequences and nonstop surround activity during shootouts and chase scenes -- I never usually gush over a lossy Dolby Digital mix, but this one was absolutely fabulous. The original release of Royale on Blu-ray carried the Dolby mix (at a higher bitrate) and an Uncompressed PCM track that I recall didn't impress me all that much as compared to the Dolby mix.

This "Collector's Edition" Blu-ray swaps the PCM audio for an English Dolby TrueHD track, which, theoretically, should yield identical results, just about. I don't know if it was an issue with my player doing the decoding of TrueHD to multichannel PCM, but I was simply not moved by the TrueHD audio as compared to the Dolby Digital track from the DVD believe that or not. From the opening "You Know My Name" title sequence, the TrueHD track lacked visceral punch and was missing loads of LFE information that was on the Dolby mix. Now, this could be because of that infamous "LFE bug" problem that plagued this generation of Panasonic players (which I own), but whatever the cause, with the exact same calibration levels and settings, the TrueHD mix didn't move me the way the walloping Dolby Digital track did.

I knew all the standout moments in this film as far as sound goes -- there are so many of them; when Bond chases the bomb maker in Madagascar, there was an overwhelming amount of bass when Bond breaks through the fence with the construction machine on the DVD. On the Blu-ray, there was little to no effect here. The same thing happened with the end sequence when the building is coming apart in Venice -- this sequence exhibits heavy, aggressive wallops of LFE that simply weren't there on the TrueHD track as decoded by my player. I always found myself needing to turn the volume down on the DVD whenever I watched it because it was so hot and aggressive in terms of levels -- this simply wasn't the case with the BD.

I would be curious to hear from others regarding their experiences with Casino Royale and the TrueHD track on the Blu-ray; I'm curious if the issue lies with the decoding of my player (which I must use because it doesn't bitstream TrueHD) or if the disc itself just doesn't sound as good as it could have. If you have any information about the audio on Royale and care to share it, please do.

Still, all the wild, aggressive directional surround cues from the DVD's soundtrack were here -- police cars flying into the surround channels, the pouring rain of a Ugandan forest, the bullets firing around the soundstage in the final Italy sequence. There was just a lack of "heft" and presence on this TrueHD track, as exhibited by my system, that the DVD didn't exhibit at all. It's really a head-scratcher.

SUMMARY:

Indeed, the best Bond film to come along in awhile, with enough energy and charisma to reinject this series with a fresh boost of octane -- and the followup carries in those footsteps if not as good a film as Royale. Classic, diehard fans are understandably standoff-ish regarding Daniel Craig in the lead, but "new generation fans" have been enjoying him.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

As I mentioned, the video and audio in my opinion do not warrant a repurchase of this if you own it on DVD -- unless you have viewed the BD and feel it indeed does look and sound better. I didn't think so -- especially in the audio department, but that may be due to equipment issues. As I wait to decide on a player that bitstreams TrueHD (of course, all do now), all I can say about the "Collector's Edition" Blu-ray is that there is a second disc of extras and some interactive material, yet nothing really, save for the Dolby TrueHD track, stands out beyond the original Blu-ray release or even the extras-loaded DVD versions for that matter. The 1080p video, while stunning in some places in terms of detail and clarity, just isn't truly night and day over the DVD's transfer, in my opinion.

If anyone has any other findings regarding the TrueHD audio as compared to the DVD's Dolby Digital mix, I'd be interesting in hearing about it. Thank you.

danz1906

Thanks Mike!

kuntasensei

On the audio, I'm gonna try to snag a copy this weekend to spin on the Oppo and I'll let you know what I think. Haven't seen too many reviews complaining of a lack of bass on this one, though I did see one at Blu-ray.com that claimed the TrueHD on the CE version sounded beefier than the PCM on the original.

Start saving for the Oppo, Mike. So far, I'd say it's totally worth the scratch.

wutadumsn23

Thanks Mike, haven't seen you in awhile. Heard this was one of the best Blu-Ray's in production, audio and visual. May have to pick it up and see for myself.

-Jeff

fatchowmein

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Campbell needed to bring things "up to speed" in creating this new entry in the long-running franchise, so he turned to producers and screenwriters that came up with a plot involving Agent 007 being "reinstated" by M (Judi Dench) back to "Double O" status after he makes the two necessary kills.

Not meaning to split hairs, Mike, but Bond is not being reinstated. He was promoted to 00 status.

"Benefits of being section chief, I'd know if anyone had been promoted to double-oh status, wouldn't I? Your file shows no kills, and it takes..."
~Dryden, opening scene in black-n-white

"s Bond - 007 status confirmed"
~opening credits

"I knew it was too early to promote you."
~M, when Bond broke into her house

Campbell is laying the ground work at the beginning and we get to see a rookie 00 agent make mistakes in the first movie which supports the theme of Bond being vulnerable. We also get an introduction to The Organization of which we can only speculate to be SPECTRE, something I think we were hoping to find out in Quantum along with hearing about Blofeld but may need to wait until the remake of Dr. No.

Mike LoManaco

danz1906 wrote: »

Thanks Mike!

You got it, Danz!

Mike LoManaco

kuntasensei wrote: »

On the audio, I'm gonna try to snag a copy this weekend to spin on the Oppo and I'll let you know what I think. Haven't seen too many reviews complaining of a lack of bass on this one, though I did see one at Blu-ray.com that claimed the TrueHD on the CE version sounded beefier than the PCM on the original.

Thanks for the information here, 'Kunta -- I'll have to check out the review on Blu-ray.com. As I said in my review, this was most likely due to the "PCM bug" issue that plagued the early Panasonic players like mine, and I'm sure it has something to do with my player doing the decoding (even though all enthusiasts and professionals at this point will say it should sound exactly the same whether a player or receiver/processor is decoding it). I was just totally underwhelmed with the TrueHD mix on this disc as compared to the DVD's Dolby Digital compressed audio -- and I know just how nuts that sounds, believe me...

Start saving for the Oppo, Mike. So far, I'd say it's totally worth the scratch.

So, you got the player? Congrats. Can you tell me more about it? Your thoughts on the audio quality for DVD and BD playback?

In the recent issue of Home Theater, which I received yesterday, there's a review of the $2400 Denon universal player by the magazine's editor, and in it he talks about the Denon as compared to the Oppo, because he just bought the Oppo...while Home Theater gushed over the Oppo in a previous issue when they reviewed it, Shane (the editor) said the Denon absolutely trumps it in every way, especially in the analog outs where there's a TREMENDOUS difference in sound quality between the two, according to him...didn't really make me feel too good about the Oppo...:(

Of course, the Oppo is $500 and the Denon is $2400, so...

Mike LoManaco

wutadumsn23 wrote: »

Thanks Mike, haven't seen you in awhile. Heard this was one of the best Blu-Ray's in production, audio and visual. May have to pick it up and see for myself.

-Jeff

Hey, Jeff!

Yeah, just been busy for awhile here; thanks for your comments and input!

I, too, have heard this was one of the best Blu-rays ever put to market, but I just don't understand why the video didn't look all that much better than the DVD version, and even more confusing, why the audio was so uninvolving even though my receiver was seeing a decoded PCM signal for the TrueHD mix...

If you do pick it up, please tell me what you thought about it...

Thanks!

Mike LoManaco

fatchowmein wrote: »

Not meaning to split hairs, Mike, but Bond is not being reinstated. He was promoted to 00 status.

"Benefits of being section chief, I'd know if anyone had been promoted to double-oh status, wouldn't I? Your file shows no kills, and it takes..."
~Dryden, opening scene in black-n-white

"s Bond - 007 status confirmed"
~opening credits

"I knew it was too early to promote you."
~M, when Bond broke into her house

You're not splitting hairs here; when an error or misunderstanding is pointed out, we need to address it as avid film buffs! Thank you for making the distinction -- yes, I know all throughout the film there are references to Bond being "promoted" to 007 status, but I conveyed this in a misleading way in that paragraph.

Campbell is laying the ground work at the beginning and we get to see a rookie 00 agent make mistakes in the first movie which supports the theme of Bond being vulnerable.

Indeed -- and I pointed out the powerful theme of vulnerability, as that's exactly what's being conveyed here. For maybe the first time, we have a Bond that's emotionally and physically capable of being hurt.

We also get an introduction to The Organization of which we can only speculate to be SPECTRE, something I think we were hoping to find out in Quantum along with hearing about Blofeld but may need to wait until the remake of Dr. No.

This whole mystery behind the Quantum organization and what's beyond it, as I said, got a bit head-scratching and daunting; but the news that there is going to be a remake of Dr. No is very interesting -- has that been confirmed?

fatchowmein

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

but the news that there is going to be a remake of Dr. No is very interesting -- has that been confirmed?

Mere speculation on my part. My apologies if it seemed like I was implying which book or film would be remade.

Mike LoManaco

fatchowmein wrote: »

Mere speculation on my part. My apologies if it seemed like I was implying which book or film would be remade.

Gotcha.

kuntasensei

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Thanks for the information here, 'Kunta -- I'll have to check out the review on Blu-ray.com. As I said in my review, this was most likely due to the "PCM bug" issue that plagued the early Panasonic players like mine, and I'm sure it has something to do with my player doing the decoding (even though all enthusiasts and professionals at this point will say it should sound exactly the same whether a player or receiver/processor is decoding it). I was just totally underwhelmed with the TrueHD mix on this disc as compared to the DVD's Dolby Digital compressed audio -- and I know just how nuts that sounds, believe me...

It's not that nuts, really. If you're using a low-end subwoofer, you may not benefit as much from a LFE track with more definition, and a compressed DD track's LFE, while actually muddy to someone with an expensive sub, may sound subjectively louder on yours. When I pick this up, I'll throw the DVD in my 360 and the BD in my Oppo so I can do some quick A/B comparisons with the SVS going.

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

So, you got the player? Congrats. Can you tell me more about it? Your thoughts on the audio quality for DVD and BD playback?

I won't muddy the waters here in this thread by going on too much about the Oppo, but I posted some impressions in the Oppo owners thread over in Electronics. I can't speak to the analog outputs, but I will say that redbook CD playback is vastly improved over my Panasonic DVD-S97, even through HDMI. That wasn't something I was expecting. Based on my experience thus far (and if it tells you anything, I already own 20 BD discs because of it), the Oppo feels like a steal at $500.

Mike LoManaco

kuntasensei wrote: »

It's not that nuts, really. If you're using a low-end subwoofer, you may not benefit as much from a LFE track with more definition, and a compressed DD track's LFE, while actually muddy to someone with an expensive sub, may sound subjectively louder on yours.

Well, of course this could be it also -- I hadn't considered the fact that uncompressed/lossless LFE may attack with more "definition" rather than low, rattling sub octaves...although I can't quite get my head around the fact that the tacticle slam of the LFE on a lossless TrueHD track wouldn't be nearly as powerful as that from the DVD's mix. I suspect more my player's ability to decode these soundtracks into multichannel PCM and send them out over HDMI -- but I could be wrong. The only way I will know will be when I switch out my Panasonic to a new deck, possibly the Oppo.

When I pick this up, I'll throw the DVD in my 360 and the BD in my Oppo so I can do some quick A/B comparisons with the SVS going.

Please do -- would be interested in finding out if you experienced any differences...

I won't muddy the waters here in this thread by going on too much about the Oppo, but I posted some impressions in the Oppo owners thread over in Electronics. I can't speak to the analog outputs, but I will say that redbook CD playback is vastly improved over my Panasonic DVD-S97, even through HDMI. That wasn't something I was expecting. Based on my experience thus far (and if it tells you anything, I already own 20 BD discs because of it), the Oppo feels like a steal at $500.

Right -- I keep forgetting you are late into the BD game. I never used my DVD players in the past as CD players; always ran them on dedicated CD changers namely from Marantz. But I'm glad you are liking the Oppo -- don't worry about muddying any waters here; let's hear your impressions in here!

Knucklehead

I dunno.......BD or not I cant just seem to get into the new Bond flicks, for me i guess the "coolness factor" is gone because they cant stick with one actor to play Bond. For me it just kinda screws up the whole "Bond" experience. Just my .02.

Retro152

Thanks Mike. Nice review.:D




Pat.

Mike LoManaco

Knucklehead wrote: »

I dunno.......BD or not I cant just seem to get into the new Bond flicks, for me i guess the "coolness factor" is gone because they cant stick with one actor to play Bond. For me it just kinda screws up the whole "Bond" experience. Just my .02.

Totally understandable, 'Knuckle; I've heard this from other fans too.

It's kind of the same with Batman; all the people who have played him/Bruce Wayne over the years kind of takes you out of the whole experience.

Mike LoManaco

Retro152 wrote: »

Thanks Mike. Nice review.:D




Pat.

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, Pat -- you are more than welcome. Sorry for the severe length of it all......:(:(:o

lightman1

Daniel Craig will kick Roger Moore's ****.... But!!... Roger will smoooothhh his way out of a situation.....

cfrizz

Knucklehead wrote: »

I dunno.......BD or not I cant just seem to get into the new Bond flicks, for me i guess the "coolness factor" is gone because they cant stick with one actor to play Bond. For me it just kinda screws up the whole "Bond" experience. Just my .02.

Ummm you do realize that Sir Sean Connery who played Bond first is 79 years old, Sir Roger Moore will be 82 in Oct! Daniel Craig is 41.

It is a successful franchise that makes money & entertains people. So long as they find good actors to fill the role & good scripts to go along with the acting Bond can continue for years to come.

They can't hire a kid to fill the role, Bond has always been a middle age character. That tends to shorten the length of time an actor can perform the role credibily. Although that hasn't seemed to stop the Indiana Jones series!:eek::D

cfrizz

lightman1 wrote: »

Daniel Craig will kick Roger Moore's ****.... But!!... Roger will smoooothhh his way out of a situation.....

I would think so Russ, see the age difference between them above!

DarqueKnight

It would be cool for them to do a cameo scene with CGI versions of the younger Connery and Moore in the next bond movie.

cfrizz

Like they did in X-men with Charles & Magneto flashback. That was seriously cool.

BTW, thanks for the review Mike.

Knucklehead

cfrizz wrote: »

Ummm you do realize that Sir Sean Connery who played Bond first is 79 years old, Sir Roger Moore will be 82 in Oct! Daniel Craig is 41.

It is a successful franchise that makes money & entertains people. So long as they find good actors to fill the role & good scripts to go along with the acting Bond can continue for years to come.

They can't hire a kid to fill the role, Bond has always been a middle age character. That tends to shorten the length of time an actor can perform the role credibily. Although that hasn't seemed to stop the Indiana Jones series!:eek::D

that may be true but they could find a younger Actor to play him for at least 7 or 8 movies or more. good point on the Indiana Jones.

cfrizz

The oldest of the lot, Roger Moore has had the most turn with Bond with 12 years under his belt 1973-85, 7 movies total, until he decided to retire from the role. Sean also made 7 films but the years were broken up.

kuntasensei

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Well, of course this could be it also -- I hadn't considered the fact that uncompressed/lossless LFE may attack with more "definition" rather than low, rattling sub octaves...although I can't quite get my head around the fact that the tacticle slam of the LFE on a lossless TrueHD track wouldn't be nearly as powerful as that from the DVD's mix. I suspect more my player's ability to decode these soundtracks into multichannel PCM and send them out over HDMI -- but I could be wrong. The only way I will know will be when I switch out my Panasonic to a new deck, possibly the Oppo.

Mike, I'm in the other room A/B'ing it now. My initial thoughts:
1) Opening Theme - The TrueHD track on the CE BD is an immediately noticeable improvement over the DD on the DVD. Bass notes and the lower end of the horn pops are more defined. That said, it seems like the mid-range stands out a bit more on the TrueHD track, which could make it seem like the bass is not as prevalent. I like the TrueHD more, since Chris Cornell's voice seems more "in-the-room". The DVD sounds more like you're listening to a CD of him.
2) Explosion at embassy - The DVD conveys this with a nice mid-bass punch but doesn't trigger my Buttkicker at all. The TrueHD track, when level matched to produce the same SPL (which was actually at the same volume level on my Onkyo), sounds a little more defined and actually vibrates the couch slightly, meaning there's more deep bass there.
3) The keychain bomb at the airport - This one's not deep-trolling, but more of a nice mid-bass thump. The DVD sounds subjectively louder, but definitely more muddy sounding, whereas the TrueHD track carries this sound off with a more discernible tone.

Based on that, I'm thinking maybe your observations are just indicative of the differences between lossy encoding and the lossless (and perhaps the difference in how each is pulled off on a low-end subwoofer). The DVD does seem more punchy... but the bass is kinda' muddy and one-note by comparison. If you have a subwoofer that doesn't give you flat response down to 20Hz, I could definitely see how this track might seem lacking by comparison.

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Right -- I keep forgetting you are late into the BD game. I never used my DVD players in the past as CD players; always ran them on dedicated CD changers namely from Marantz. But I'm glad you are liking the Oppo -- don't worry about muddying any waters here; let's hear your impressions in here!

As far as CD audio goes, a guy over at AVS (in the Oppo BDP-83 technical thread) actually did a frequency comparison of the Oppo with several CD players, including a Marantz. The Oppo bested most of the ones he tested and graphed damn near identical to the Marantz. I wouldn't say that the Oppo is any substitute for those wanting a standalone CD transport, but it damn sure seems to be on the high end of BD/DVD players at its price point. In my own personal experience, it was definitely a step up in warmth from my Panasonic S97, even with DVD-Audio.

As far as my impressions on the BDP-83 itself, man... it's very nice. And fast. Like as fast as the PS3, sometimes faster for initial load times. Usually, by the time I put the disc in and make it back to my seat, the disc has started. Navigation of menus is damn near instantaneous, besting my Panasonic DVD-S97, which was by all accounts a very fast player to navigate. Firmware updates have been a breeze thus far and have definitely been welcome improvements as they're released. I'm bitstreaming everything except SACD to the player. My Onkyo 705 does internal DSD decoding, but feeding it DSD from the Oppo seems to attenuate SACD playback by about 8-10dB compared to other audio formats. Switching the Oppo over to PCM so it does the DSD decoding in-player brought levels back up and let me use DPL-IIx processing on top of the SACD (which I've enjoyed tinkering with, but isn't a huge concern).

As far as setup goes, you won't spend more than 5 minutes plugging it up and going through the menus. It is one of the slickest initial setups I've seen in a player, and had me up and running with 1080p/24 to my projector and the right audio settings before I even gave it a thought. I had a minor issue with getting everything programmed so I could use my Harmony 880 remote with it, mostly because Logitech hasn't added the colored buttons to their database, but that was fixed by quickly learning those buttons to the remote from the original Oppo remote. I also made a custom background for my 880 so I could see the red, blue, green and yellow buttons, and it looks pretty slick.

Video quality on the Oppo is outstanding. A great torture test for a player is the resolution section of AVS' calibration disc (which you can get for free and burn to DVD). They have a 1080p pattern on there that is a checkerboard of single pixels in a 1920x1080 matrix... and the Oppo resolves it accurately to my Z2000 projector with 1:1 pixel mapping. Even standing right at the screen, I can see each individual pixel on the LCD panels resolving perfectly. And that's another thing the Oppo has in its favor - the two calibration discs that come with it. The Spears & Munsil disc has some good demo material and initial setup patterns, though I greatly prefer the AVS disc's patterns for contrast setup and resolution testing. The AIX disc that comes with the Oppo has some fantastic sound tests in DTS-HD Master 7.1 for checking speaker levels with a SPL meter and for ensuring proper phase. Seriously... even with the PS3 Slim dropping to $300, I can't recommend the Oppo enough. It's built like a tank and is definitely worth the purchase. Lots of people were having trouble playing the Crank 2 BD this week, and the Oppo loaded it right up for me (using the latest beta firmware).

Mike LoManaco

cfrizz wrote: »

Like they did in X-men with Charles & Magneto flashback. That was seriously cool.

BTW, thanks for the review Mike.

Thank you for reading, 'Rizz -- and you indeed make very good points about the actors and their ages.

Mike LoManaco

Wow, 'Kunta -- thanks very much for taking the time to post your thoughts and opinions after A/Bing the tracks, and for all your views on the Oppo. I'll reply to individual themes below, so we don't lose track of what we're talking about...

kuntasensei wrote: »

Mike, I'm in the other room A/B'ing it now. My initial thoughts:
1) Opening Theme - The TrueHD track on the CE BD is an immediately noticeable improvement over the DD on the DVD. Bass notes and the lower end of the horn pops are more defined. That said, it seems like the mid-range stands out a bit more on the TrueHD track, which could make it seem like the bass is not as prevalent. I like the TrueHD more, since Chris Cornell's voice seems more "in-the-room". The DVD sounds more like you're listening to a CD of him.

Interesting observation -- I am going to run the TrueHD track again tonight and see if I notice these elements/differences; I never had an issue with the Dolby track on the DVD in the Chris Cornell opening sequence even compared against the TrueHD track, but perhaps listening more intently, I will pick up this "in the room" benefit possibly yielded by the TrueHD resolution.

Before we go any further -- it's important to know whether you are bitstreaming the TrueHD from your Oppo or sending it as decoded multichannel PCM...

2) Explosion at embassy - The DVD conveys this with a nice mid-bass punch but doesn't trigger my Buttkicker at all. The TrueHD track, when level matched to produce the same SPL (which was actually at the same volume level on my Onkyo), sounds a little more defined and actually vibrates the couch slightly, meaning there's more deep bass there.

Are you referring to the explosion when Craig shoots the keg and it blows up after killing the bomb maker he's after? If you are, that sequence had decent bass on the TrueHD, but it really shook my room in Dolby Digital -- interesting that the DVD version on your system conveyed this via a "mid bass punch" that didn't trip your Buttkicker's circuits.

Something must be up with the way my player transcodes the TrueHD signals into multichannel decoded PCM -- that infamous "LFE Bug" which has terrorized first generation Panasonic owners since the launch of the DMP-BD10/A. :mad: :rolleyes:

3) The keychain bomb at the airport - This one's not deep-trolling, but more of a nice mid-bass thump. The DVD sounds subjectively louder, but definitely more muddy sounding, whereas the TrueHD track carries this sound off with a more discernible tone.

Interesting find here -- the DVD and Blu-ray sounded about the same during the sequence when the bomber blows up due to the keychain on his belt. You hear the "WHAM!" and then the cops shouting around the soundfield, and then the audio kind of collapses back into the surrounds to make it sound as if the guy blew up into pieces. This sequence didn't seem any "lower" to me in TrueHD, but many other sequences did -- namely, the part in the beginning when Craig is chasing the guy down in Madagascar and he drives the construction truck through the fence. This scene on the DVD WALLOPS with wall-rattling LFE when Bond first breaks through the fence and spills those pipes down towards the fleeting bomb maker -- the TrueHD track had no bass punch here, and little tacticle response. Another standout moment on the DVD was the opening pre title sequence where we see flashbacks of Bond's dealings with the turncoat agent's contact -- on the DVD, when the agent asks Bond, "How did he die?" and Craig replies "Your contact? Not well," this is followed by punchy, overtly loud bass when Craig starts kicking the guy's **** in the men's room. There's a punch and heft to the sequence that's simply missing on the TrueHD mix.

Based on that, I'm thinking maybe your observations are just indicative of the differences between lossy encoding and the lossless (and perhaps the difference in how each is pulled off on a low-end subwoofer). The DVD does seem more punchy... but the bass is kinda' muddy and one-note by comparison. If you have a subwoofer that doesn't give you flat response down to 20Hz, I could definitely see how this track might seem lacking by comparison.

That's what I was trying to convey -- that the track seems lacking in comparison to the Dolby mix according to my ears, system and listening conditions, and it's why I invited outside opinions about the differences; while the bass on the DVD seems to you "muddy" and "one note" in nature, it just heightened the experience more for me versus the TrueHD track.

The biggest difference came into play during the end sequence when the Venice building is coming apart -- this scene on the DVD rattled my walls when the building starts breaking up and crumbling into the sea; the TrueHD track exhibited weaker LFE and didn't add any impact to the visuals at all, and this was disappointing because I know what that sequence was supposed to sound like!

At any rate, I would be interested to know if you are bitstreaming your TrueHD output from the Oppo, or if the Oppo is doing the decoding...I still have a feeling it's the decoding capabilities of my player...

As far as CD audio goes, a guy over at AVS (in the Oppo BDP-83 technical thread) actually did a frequency comparison of the Oppo with several CD players, including a Marantz. The Oppo bested most of the ones he tested and graphed damn near identical to the Marantz. I wouldn't say that the Oppo is any substitute for those wanting a standalone CD transport, but it damn sure seems to be on the high end of BD/DVD players at its price point. In my own personal experience, it was definitely a step up in warmth from my Panasonic S97, even with DVD-Audio.

Nice to know; though I still stick with a standalone CD changer for my music listening.

As far as my impressions on the BDP-83 itself, man... it's very nice. And fast. Like as fast as the PS3, sometimes faster for initial load times.

Wasn't this your first foray into Blu-ray? Did you have a PS3 before this?

Usually, by the time I put the disc in and make it back to my seat, the disc has started. Navigation of menus is damn near instantaneous, besting my Panasonic DVD-S97, which was by all accounts a very fast player to navigate. Firmware updates have been a breeze thus far and have definitely been welcome improvements as they're released. I'm bitstreaming everything except SACD to the player. My Onkyo 705 does internal DSD decoding, but feeding it DSD from the Oppo seems to attenuate SACD playback by about 8-10dB compared to other audio formats. Switching the Oppo over to PCM so it does the DSD decoding in-player brought levels back up and let me use DPL-IIx processing on top of the SACD (which I've enjoyed tinkering with, but isn't a huge concern).

Okay -- I think you answered the question I was asking above about bitstreaming here; I hadn't read this first. Sorry. You are bitstreaming TRUEHD and MASTER AUDIO from the player?

As far as setup goes, you won't spend more than 5 minutes plugging it up and going through the menus. It is one of the slickest initial setups I've seen in a player, and had me up and running with 1080p/24 to my projector and the right audio settings before I even gave it a thought. I had a minor issue with getting everything programmed so I could use my Harmony 880 remote with it, mostly because Logitech hasn't added the colored buttons to their database, but that was fixed by quickly learning those buttons to the remote from the original Oppo remote. I also made a custom background for my 880 so I could see the red, blue, green and yellow buttons, and it looks pretty slick.

Video quality on the Oppo is outstanding. A great torture test for a player is the resolution section of AVS' calibration disc (which you can get for free and burn to DVD). They have a 1080p pattern on there that is a checkerboard of single pixels in a 1920x1080 matrix... and the Oppo resolves it accurately to my Z2000 projector with 1:1 pixel mapping. Even standing right at the screen, I can see each individual pixel on the LCD panels resolving perfectly. And that's another thing the Oppo has in its favor - the two calibration discs that come with it. The Spears & Munsil disc has some good demo material and initial setup patterns, though I greatly prefer the AVS disc's patterns for contrast setup and resolution testing. The AIX disc that comes with the Oppo has some fantastic sound tests in DTS-HD Master 7.1 for checking speaker levels with a SPL meter and for ensuring proper phase. Seriously... even with the PS3 Slim dropping to $300, I can't recommend the Oppo enough. It's built like a tank and is definitely worth the purchase. Lots of people were having trouble playing the Crank 2 BD this week, and the Oppo loaded it right up for me (using the latest beta firmware).

Thanks again for taking the time to post your impressions -- I was looking forward to recalibrating my display with the Spears disc if I got the Oppo, even though it's been calibrated and double checked by a standard DVD setup disc and the HD Basics Blu-ray -- are the patterns not accurate on the Spears disc for analyzing contrast, color, etc?

McLoki

Mike, what sub are you using again?