Buying a TV today sucks!

venomclan

Sucks bigtime.

So my trusty Sony 36" Vega starts to show it's age at 9 years, and having a 230lb tv around a toddler raises the tension a bit. I see a sale last week at BB of a Sony 46" 46V5100 with 1080P, 120hz for $1300 with Sony Bluray 360 player. I pull the trigger, buy a wallmount and hdmi cable and about 2 hours later have it mounted and running.

I am new to hdmi and this is my first HD set. So before going in, I thought that this should be a nice upgrade, and given the good luck with Sony tv's in the past, think that this should be a long term purchase.

Epic fail. Newsflash: LCD sucks with blacks. I new this going in, but thought that since LCD has been out a while, and Sony is a leader in LCD, blacks should be at least acceptable by now. The V-series also got nice reviews for blacks. My old CRT killed this set in every way. No add the flashlight issue and the washout look, this one is going back to BB. I also had one of the now known and common audio dropouts with the hdmi.

Perhaps I wanted a plasma all along, but am not keen on the heat as I live in FL. I looked at a few plasmas and the Samsungs were space heaters. The Panny's were not that bad and I guess not much worse than the CRT I had. I like the Pioneer but it is too expensive for my budget.

I miss the old days when it was just brand, size and features to worry about. The CRT did everyhting well, for gaming, movies tv etc. I guess I am getting old at 35.
Venom

Barefoot

I'm not a fan of LCD's either due to the viewing angles, motion blur, and, like you said, black levels. If your room isn't absolutely flooded with light, then Plasma would be the way to go. Since virtually all models are 1080p now, you could probably get a 768p closeout model by Panasonic on the cheap. Panasonics can do 80% of what the Pioneers can do, at half the price.

tcrossma

CRT didn't do everything well until the end -- and even then, there were plenty that were awful. They were small, curved screens, warped images, color bleeding, etc.

That Sony you have is a great display -- I have one too. But it wasn't cheap. There are plenty of Plasma and LCD TV's out there that would fit exactly what you're looking for... but just as with the CRT's of old, there's some good and some bad to sort through. I think the market is about the same today as it has always been -- every company has their low-priced, always on sale, mediocre line, and their more expensive premier products.

You bought an upper-level Sony 9 years ago, and you may just need to spend a little more today to get the satisfaction you require.

F1nut

Tubes still rule!

Kex

Don't give up until you make a concerted effort at adjustments! We still use a 32" Mitsubishi CRT, a 26" Sony CRT, and a 46" Samsung 60Hz LCD. The LCD is excellent, including blacks IMO. We both love it, and it's the one we always watch for movies.

Yes, HDMI sux, apparently, but my HDMI goes directly from the oppo to the LCD with no issues ... ever. My receiver does not have HDMI inputs or outputs.

ViperZ

You might want to take a look at the Sony's line-up of LCDs...

V is their low-mid-grade series. If I remember correctly, it goes like this:
L-M->S->V-W->Z-XBR

I am looking to get myself a Sony LCD in the next year or so, and I'm looking at Z series (although W looks all right).

If not, then plasma is the way to go for you (Panasonic).

hearingimpared

I have a 42" Sharp Aquos LCD that I am very happy with.

venomclan

tcrossma wrote: »

CRT didn't do everything well until the end -- and even then, there were plenty that were awful. They were small, curved screens, warped images, color bleeding, etc. You bought an upper-level Sony 9 years ago, and you may just need to spend a little more today to get the satisfaction you require.

I agree that all CRT's were not great. At the end they really did perform well. Maybe we have to wait decades for this new technology to mature. I found a link on the V-series at AVS and see common problems to much to deal with on a new mid-level tv purchase. I feel as frustrated as this guy about LCD's in general.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1177015

Kex wrote: »

Don't give up until you make a concerted effort at adjustments!
Yes, HDMI sux, apparently, but my HDMI goes directly from the oppo to the LCD with no issues ... ever. My receiver does not have HDMI inputs or outputs.

I did every adjustment many times. Links on the videophiles at AVS have these guys tweaking to infinity. I am not a video guy, I just want a great picture, or at least as good as one I had 10 years ago for half the price.

ViperZ wrote: »

You might want to take a look at the Sony's line-up of LCDs...
V is their low-mid-grade series. If I remember correctly, it goes like this: L-M->S->V-W->Z-XBR

I am looking to get myself a Sony LCD in the next year or so, and I'm looking at Z series (although W looks all right).
If not, then plasma is the way to go for you (Panasonic).

I figured that any Sony is a premium set, and a mid-level one should clean up the common problems. The Z-series and the XBR's have the same problems with flashlights and fade. Its seems like it is a given with LCD's 46" and up. Check out the AVS forums with the new Z's, same issue. Really frustrating.
Venom

messiah

Yeah, I've been looking at a ton of tvs lately, and entry level lcd just plain sucks. You really have to look at the higher end lcd's to get a great picture. That said I think plasma looks more natural, no issues with motion blur, and they are starting to add AR coatings to the screens. They are a bit cheaper too.

danz1906

messiah wrote: »

Yeah, I've been looking at a ton of tvs lately, and entry level lcd just plain sucks. You really have to look at the higher end lcd's to get a great picture. That said I think plasma looks more natural, no issues with motion blur, and they are starting to add AR coatings to the screens. They are a bit cheaper too.

Agreed, the plasmas are a bargain nowdays.

MacLeod

I went thru the same thing when I was shopping for mine. DPL's had the best picture and no burn in but the bulbs burned out and youd be lucky to get one home before it tore up on you. LCD's lasted and had no burn in but the PQ wasnt that good. Plasma had the best PQ but if you left a static image on more than 30 seconds your set was ruined. Seemed like all tv formats sucked.

I bought my Sammy plasma over a year ago and absolutely love it! It displays SD programming better than my buddies LCD's, motion is superb and the colors are awesome. It took a little while to dial everything in but honestly its not that far off from the factory settings. Ive had none of the problems associated with plasmas such as burn in or image retention - absolutely none! Considering their prices nowadays with 50" Sammy or Panny plasmas going for under a grand, I highly recommend picking up one.

Polkersince85

If you are a Sam's Club member, go here and tab to the Tv auctions. 50" Kuros Model: PDP5010FD
are going in the 1100-1300 range plus shipping @ 100-200.

http://auctions.samsclub.com

huggies

First, make sure your lcd settings are not set to bright. Defaults on lcd's are usually set so the picture "pops" when in the brightly lit stores. Do a search on AVS for the exact model you have. Usually there is a long thread dedicated just to your model with tweeks and setup advice. Second, you will not find a lcd/plasma tv to rival your crt. They just dont exist. Plasma's can get close. You also have to account for the much larger screen size. Smaller screens, everything else being equal, will have a much sharper image. You have the same amount of video data going to the screen, so the larger the screen the more that data has to be stretched, filled in, larger dot pitch, etc...

If you still can't get the tv dialed in, you might try plasma instead. However, you will get some glare from bright windows and such, but no worse than you would have gotten on your crt. So if you could live with it on your crt, I dont see it being a problem on a plasma. Dont let the burn-in pundits scare you either. Todays' plasma rarely have this issue, unless abused way beyond what any type of normal viewing would expose it too. You might get a bit of image retention, but that is different and almost always a short term issue that isn't even noticeable when the tv is on. I have a 50" plasma and it does double duty as my computer monitor. I surf the net, play games, etc... and with all the static items on those, I've never had a burn in issue.

P.S. I went from a 40 inch Mitsu crt to my plasma and have been nothing but satisfied. So dont give up, there is something out there that will make you happy.

huggies

Your lcd tv

exalted512

What about these new LED sets? My parents just got one, but I dont go home much as theyre 4 hours away, so I havent been able to look at it.
-Cody

huggies

I've never actually seen an LED set so I can't comment. Sounds like the blacks are better than an LCD. Here's a link with some info, not sure of the accuracy though.

comfortablycurt

I've been looking at TV's a lot lately too. I've been drawing a blank as to what to get. I'm pretty sure I want a plasma, in the 32"-37" range.

Is burn in really a problem on the newer plasmas? I know it was on the older ones. My parents got a 42" Sony plasma right when Plasmas first came out. Now it has the CNN logo, and several other news station logo's burnt into the corner. It's not real noticeable, unless you've got a black background.

thsmith

Go here, CNET rated your TV a good entry level and have the calibrations settings.

WHile I agree LCD can not do blacks like CRTs they have come a long way but that is the reason I am hanging on to my 73" Mits CRTRP.

I do have a Samsung 40" LCD in the bed room and once calibrated it does a nice job

[/I]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6603_7-5109683-3.html?tag=mncol;txt#TVcalibration

thsmith

thsmith wrote: »

Go here, CNET rated your TV a good entry level and have the calibrations settings.

WHile I agree LCD can not do blacks like CRTs they have come a long way but that is the reason I am hanging on to my 73" Mits CRTRP.

I do have a Samsung 40" LCD in the bed room and once calibrated it does a nice job

[/I]

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6603_7-5109683-3.html?tag=mncol;txt#TVcalibration

SOrry, I sent you to how CNET perfroms calibrations. Here are the setting for the 51" which should work just fine for your 46". I think these settings are for fairly dark room but should be able to tweak to your liking. Any thing is better than factory defaults which are way to bright which I am sure you have found already since you do not like the blacks. One thing I have noticed with most all calibrations that a lot of the features get turned off.

Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: Min
Picture: 81
Brightness: 53
Color: 40
Hue: R1
Color Temperature: Warm
Sharpness: Min
Noise Reduction: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Gamma: Low
Clear White: Off
Live Color: Off

-- Advanced Settings menu
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game Mode: Off
Motionflow: Off

-- White Balance menu
R-Gain: -5
G-Gain: -4
B-Gain: -11
R-Bias: -5
G-Bias: 2
B-Bias: 2

--Setup menu;
Backlight: On
PC Power Management: Off
Light Sensor: Off

MacLeod

exalted512 wrote: »

What about these new LED sets? My parents just got one, but I dont go home much as theyre 4 hours away, so I havent been able to look at it.
-Cody

Ive only seen them in the showroom but they are the best looking sets on the floor usually. Not sure if that would translate to the living room but I dont see why not.

However, $3500 for a 40" tv when I can get a 42" plasma for $800 makes it an easy choice.

apphd

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've been looking at TV's a lot lately too. I've been drawing a blank as to what to get. I'm pretty sure I want a plasma, in the 32"-37" range.

Is burn in really a problem on the newer plasmas? I know it was on the older ones. My parents got a 42" Sony plasma right when Plasmas first came out. Now it has the CNN logo, and several other news station logo's burnt into the corner. It's not real noticeable, unless you've got a black background.

Burn in is not an issue with the newer plasmas.

My suggestion, skip the 32"-37" and look at 42" 720P models. I say this because: I think 32"-37" plasmas will be hard to find, since you are in this size range I doubt that you would need 1280P, and I think it has been said earlier, there are lots of good to very good sets in this size and output at very good prices. To take my suggestion one step further go Panny.

pablo_rodz

Kuro that's it! NOTHING out there beats a Pioneer Kuro...

I've had mine for like 6 months, the thing is awesome, the blacks are so deep that they blend with the frame. And the anti-glare coating on the screen is awesome. I had more glare on my Mitsubishi DLP.

About burn in.... Unless all you watch is CNN or show with tiker bars Burn-in is a thing of the past. Higher end models have various ways of preventing burn in.

check www.valueelectronics.com (no affiliation) I got my Kuro from them, great guys... and you can check their Flat Screen Shootout LED's, LCD's and Plasmas.....

Good Luck!

leroyjr1

Nothing wrong with LCD's. You have to make sure you get the right one. I have a couple Samsungs and the black levels are great. Not as good as the Kuro's but I like the whites on lcd's better then on the plasmas.

ViperZ

venomclan wrote: »

I agree that all CRT's were not great. At the end they really did perform well. Maybe we have to wait decades for this new technology to mature. I found a link on the V-series at AVS and see common problems to much to deal with on a new mid-level tv purchase. I feel as frustrated as this guy about LCD's in general.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1177015

Woah, you haven't seen the tube XBR TVs, have you? Something along the lines of KV-36XBR800 or even 400 series? My 36-incher weighed a ton, but had the best image ever. The only reason I had to sell it is that I was moving to a condo... and guess what... a studio bought it as a reference screen (1.5 years ago).

ben62670

MacLeod wrote: »

Ive only seen them in the showroom but they are the best looking sets on the floor usually. Not sure if that would translate to the living room but I dont see why not.

However, $3500 for a 40" tv when I can get a 42" plasma for $800 makes it an easy choice.

Yep. I like the plasma too. Maybe I can get Obama to bail me out of my 19 CRT with not even a single video input.

leroyjr1

ben62670 wrote: »

Yep. I like the plasma too. Maybe I can get Obama to bail me out of my 19 CRT with not even a single video input.

As much modding as you do Ben I'm surprised you didn't mod the 19" CRT yet.

Systems

apphd wrote: »

Burn in is not an issue with the newer plasmas.

My suggestion, skip the 32"-37" and look at 42" 720P models. I say this because: I think 32"-37" plasmas will be hard to find, since you are in this size range I doubt that you would need 1280P, and I think it has been said earlier, there are lots of good to very good sets in this size and output at very good prices. To take my suggestion one step further go Panny.

Yes, we have two TH-42pz85u,s one in the basement, and one in our bedroom. Do not recommend them for brightly lit rooms though. Blacks are just unbelievable, you guys with Panny's should watch Dark City sometime on them. They do SD just as good as our old Sony Wega, no blurring, sports are jaw dropping. Theres quite a variance in HD feeds out there so don't judge by one particular feed. We have PS3 hooked up and Standard DVD's look great also, partly with the upconverting of the ps3 although Saving Private Ryan looked terrible....once again the variance in feeds and discs......

madmax

venomclan wrote: »

Sucks bigtime.

Epic fail. Newsflash: LCD sucks with blacks. I new this going in, but thought that since LCD has been out a while, and Sony is a leader in LCD, blacks should be at least acceptable by now. The V-series also got nice reviews for blacks.

It is a general consensus (at least it was awhile back) that if you want great blacks go with plasma. If you look closely you will notice the blacks are uneven across the screen and in the corners as well. Take it back and get something else if you don't like it. I personally fell in love with my LCD even though I see the black issue.
madmax

messiah

I was at Frys the othe day, and they had a 60" LG for 1600.00 and this picture was beautiful! (online it's 2000.00). They had plenty of plasmas 50" - 42" under 1000.00. On the other hand, they had this 55" 240hz Lcd that was freakin amazing in clarity, but somehow still managed to look somewhat artificial. It was 3900.00. My suggestion if you have a bright room: blackout curtains.

leroyjr1

messiah wrote: »

I was at Frys the othe day, and they had a 60" LG for 1600.00 and this picture was beautiful! (online it's 2000.00). They had plenty of plasmas 50" - 42" under 1000.00. On the other hand, they had this 55" 240hz Lcd that was freakin amazing in clarity, but somehow still managed to look somewhat artificial. It was 3900.00. My suggestion if you have a bright room: blackout curtains.

Turn off the 240hz mode and the artificial look goes away.

Conradicles

venomclan wrote: »

Sucks bigtime.

I totally disagree. Now is the best time to buy one. Get you a good 50" Panasonic Plasma and call it a day.:cool: