Improvements To The VPI HW-16.5 Record Cleaning Machine
DarqueKnight
Posts: 6,765
Introduction
I finally got tired of hand washing and hand vacuuming my records and decided to invest in a reliable and well engineered commercial RCM rather than make my own. VPI RCM's are always available on the used market at very attractive prices. However, a new unit was purchased to avoid the risk of getting one that was formerly owned by a nightclub DJ and thus one day away from being completely worn out.;)
The HW-16.5's cabinet is solidly built of 1/2" thick MDF which is clad in a tough black vinyl. The turntable compartment cover is 1/4" thick clear Plexiglas. The vacuum and turntable motors are heavy duty, professional grade units. The HW-16.5 is a proven design that has been in production for over 30 years.
Specifications:
Size: 15-1/2" W x 14-1/4" D x 9" H
Weight: 28 lbs
Vacuum motor: 6.5 amps
Vacuum motor maximum current draw: 7.5 amps
Vacuum air movement: 95 cubic feet per minute
Turntable motor: High torque, 166:1 gear ratio operating at 18 RPM
Fluid reservoir: Stainless steel
Power line fuse: 10 amps, 250 volts, 5mm x 20mm, fast blow
MSRP: $550
Straight Out Of The Box
Figure 1. The 16.5's functions were checked out and then it was off to the surgeon's table.
Figure 2. Just an MDF box, some switches, a vacuum system, a fluid reservoir, a motorized turntable, and a little fiberglass batting
for sound insulation.
Figure 3. The 16.5 came with a tiny, flimsy plastic throw-away record clamp that is prone to tread stripping. I replaced it with a
sturdy TT Weights clamp.
Figure 4. Surprise!! I thought the TT Weights clamp was supposed to cover the entire record label. It does not.
The feature description for the TT Weights VPI Deluxe Cleaner Clamp states:
"The bottom has a precision machined polycarbonate base with a proprietary outer edge seal to stop fluid leaks."
It also says that the clamp is 3.45" in diameter. After all these years I finally found out that an LP label is about 4" in diameter. That leaves about 1/4" exposed by the clamp. By the way, the 16.5's lid won't close if the TT Weights clamp is on the spindle. The clamp is just small enough to fit into the front right corner of the turntable compartment.
Figure 5. The scrawny 18 AWG stock power cord was quickly dismissed.
Modifications
Figure 6. Modified VPI HW-16.5 RCM with 4" cooling fan, increased cabinet damping, heavy duty record clamp, upgraded power
cord and upgraded power line fuse.
VPI recommends adding a 3" cooling fan to prevent the vacuum motor's thermal shutdown during a long cleaning session. I went with a 4" fan. A 45 minute cool down period is required after a thermal shut down.
Figure 7. The fan could have been wired to the vacuum switch, but I wanted the fan to run whether the vacuum was on or off.
I initially just drilled another hole between the toggle switches for the turntable and vacuum and installed a Radio Shack toggle switch. However, the Radio Shack switch wasn't an exact match in size and appearance for the VPI switches and it looked somewhat "bootleg". I asked VPI if they would sell me a toggle switch and make a switch plate for me pre-drilled with three holes. They agreed to provide this for $25 inclusive of shipping. The turnaround time was 8 weeks due to the "custom" switch plate and their parts vendor having to "work me in". I didn't expect that drilling an extra hole would be that "out of the way".
Figure 8. Four inch Radio Shack cooling fan with cast metal frame. Part #273-241.
Figure 9. The fan frame was glued to the box wall.
Figure 10. The fan cost $25 and the blade to cut the hole for the fan cost 40% more...$35.
HW-16.5 owners wishing to do this modification should take care to protect the vacuum motor vents and cabinet interior from saw dust. I made a "bag" out of a double layer of plastic wrap and taped it under the cutting location to catch the saw dust.
Figure 11. Dynamat insulation provided a moderate reduction in audible turntable motor noise.
Noise Considerations
The 16.5 is LOUD and noisy. The turntable's high torque motor generates a grumbling, rumbling, grinding noise in the 52-55 dB-A range. The vacuum motor generates wind noise of approximately 100 dB-A (with the fan hole). For reference, my Dyson DC-14 vacuum cleaner generates 80 dB-A noise and my lawn mower generates 90 dB-A noise.
Figure 12. Noise measurement setup.
I was curious to hear if the turntable motor and vacuum would run more quietly with a better power cord. The stock cord was compared to a Signal Cable MagicPower cord and a PS Audio Statement SC cord. A Radio Shack sound level meter was placed 5" from the front of the 16.5 RCM. The meter was set to "A weighting" with fast response. The measurement trials were repeated five times and the results averaged.
Power Cords Plugged Into The Wall
Stock 6.5 Foot, 18 AWG Power Cord (Cost Unknown-Probably Around $2)
TT Motor: Fluctuated between 52 to 55 dB-A.
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 99 to 101 dB-A.
Signal Cable 6 Foot, 10 AWG Power Cord ($74)
TT Motor: Meter read 52 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 54 dB-A.
Vacuum: Meter read 98 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 98.5 dB-A.
PS Audio Statement SC 9.8 Foot, 7 AWG Power Cord ($759)
TT Motor: Meter read 50 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 51 dB-A.
Vacuum: Meter read 98 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 98.5 dB-A.
I sent these results to VPI and requested their comments. Specifically, I asked if they had any information or insight regarding whether there was any benefit to the longevity of the turntable motor and vacuum motor with a better quality power cord. I received this response:
"You are the first to try this, it never entered our minds in 30 years to do this. We will check into it though." - Mike
Power Cords Plugged Into A PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC Regenerator
Results were a little better with regenerated AC:
Stock 6.5 Foot, 18 AWG Power Cord (Cost Unknown-Probably ~$2)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97.5 and 98 dB-A.
Signal Cable 6 Foot, 10 AWG Power Cord ($74)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97 and 97.5 dB-A.
PS Audio Statement SC 9.8 Foot, 7 AWG Power Cord ($759)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97 and 97.5 dB-A.
The turntable motor ran more quiet and steady with regenerated AC, but I did not perceive a difference in the vacuum motor's sound level.
After Dynamat Treatment (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
With a 4-1/2" hole cut into the 16.5's side to accommodate the fan, efforts to reduce the vacuum's noise were significantly compromised. Still, I wanted to see if the application of Dynamat Extreme sound insulation would help. The remaining noise measurements were only done with a Signal Cable power cord plugged into the wall since that is how I planned to use the 16.5.
TT Motor: Fluctuated between 50-51 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 98-99 dB-A.
Compared to the fiberglass insulation case, the turntable motor noise measured slightly lower with the Dynamat but the motor sounded noticeably more quiet and steady. This was probably due to the better damping of cabinet resonances. The vacuum noise was about the same.
Adding Fiberglass Batting After Dynamat Treatment (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
The fiberglass batting was reattached in its original locations over the Dynamat. The turntable motor and vacuum sound levels measured slightly lower, but I did not hear a difference.
TT Motor: 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97-97.5 dB-A.
Covering Fan Hole With 3/4" MDF Panel (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
I heard no difference in turntable motor noise. Of course, the vacuum noise was significantly reduced when the 4-1/2" fan hole was patched.
TT Motor: 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 94.5-95 dB-A.
I finally got tired of hand washing and hand vacuuming my records and decided to invest in a reliable and well engineered commercial RCM rather than make my own. VPI RCM's are always available on the used market at very attractive prices. However, a new unit was purchased to avoid the risk of getting one that was formerly owned by a nightclub DJ and thus one day away from being completely worn out.;)
The HW-16.5's cabinet is solidly built of 1/2" thick MDF which is clad in a tough black vinyl. The turntable compartment cover is 1/4" thick clear Plexiglas. The vacuum and turntable motors are heavy duty, professional grade units. The HW-16.5 is a proven design that has been in production for over 30 years.
Specifications:
Size: 15-1/2" W x 14-1/4" D x 9" H
Weight: 28 lbs
Vacuum motor: 6.5 amps
Vacuum motor maximum current draw: 7.5 amps
Vacuum air movement: 95 cubic feet per minute
Turntable motor: High torque, 166:1 gear ratio operating at 18 RPM
Fluid reservoir: Stainless steel
Power line fuse: 10 amps, 250 volts, 5mm x 20mm, fast blow
MSRP: $550
Straight Out Of The Box
Figure 1. The 16.5's functions were checked out and then it was off to the surgeon's table.
Figure 2. Just an MDF box, some switches, a vacuum system, a fluid reservoir, a motorized turntable, and a little fiberglass batting
for sound insulation.
Figure 3. The 16.5 came with a tiny, flimsy plastic throw-away record clamp that is prone to tread stripping. I replaced it with a
sturdy TT Weights clamp.
Figure 4. Surprise!! I thought the TT Weights clamp was supposed to cover the entire record label. It does not.
The feature description for the TT Weights VPI Deluxe Cleaner Clamp states:
"The bottom has a precision machined polycarbonate base with a proprietary outer edge seal to stop fluid leaks."
It also says that the clamp is 3.45" in diameter. After all these years I finally found out that an LP label is about 4" in diameter. That leaves about 1/4" exposed by the clamp. By the way, the 16.5's lid won't close if the TT Weights clamp is on the spindle. The clamp is just small enough to fit into the front right corner of the turntable compartment.
Figure 5. The scrawny 18 AWG stock power cord was quickly dismissed.
Modifications
"I know engineers...they love to change things!" -Dr. Leonard McCoy
Figure 6. Modified VPI HW-16.5 RCM with 4" cooling fan, increased cabinet damping, heavy duty record clamp, upgraded power
cord and upgraded power line fuse.
VPI recommends adding a 3" cooling fan to prevent the vacuum motor's thermal shutdown during a long cleaning session. I went with a 4" fan. A 45 minute cool down period is required after a thermal shut down.
Figure 7. The fan could have been wired to the vacuum switch, but I wanted the fan to run whether the vacuum was on or off.
I initially just drilled another hole between the toggle switches for the turntable and vacuum and installed a Radio Shack toggle switch. However, the Radio Shack switch wasn't an exact match in size and appearance for the VPI switches and it looked somewhat "bootleg". I asked VPI if they would sell me a toggle switch and make a switch plate for me pre-drilled with three holes. They agreed to provide this for $25 inclusive of shipping. The turnaround time was 8 weeks due to the "custom" switch plate and their parts vendor having to "work me in". I didn't expect that drilling an extra hole would be that "out of the way".
Figure 8. Four inch Radio Shack cooling fan with cast metal frame. Part #273-241.
Figure 9. The fan frame was glued to the box wall.
Figure 10. The fan cost $25 and the blade to cut the hole for the fan cost 40% more...$35.
HW-16.5 owners wishing to do this modification should take care to protect the vacuum motor vents and cabinet interior from saw dust. I made a "bag" out of a double layer of plastic wrap and taped it under the cutting location to catch the saw dust.
Figure 11. Dynamat insulation provided a moderate reduction in audible turntable motor noise.
Noise Considerations
The 16.5 is LOUD and noisy. The turntable's high torque motor generates a grumbling, rumbling, grinding noise in the 52-55 dB-A range. The vacuum motor generates wind noise of approximately 100 dB-A (with the fan hole). For reference, my Dyson DC-14 vacuum cleaner generates 80 dB-A noise and my lawn mower generates 90 dB-A noise.
Figure 12. Noise measurement setup.
I was curious to hear if the turntable motor and vacuum would run more quietly with a better power cord. The stock cord was compared to a Signal Cable MagicPower cord and a PS Audio Statement SC cord. A Radio Shack sound level meter was placed 5" from the front of the 16.5 RCM. The meter was set to "A weighting" with fast response. The measurement trials were repeated five times and the results averaged.
Power Cords Plugged Into The Wall
Stock 6.5 Foot, 18 AWG Power Cord (Cost Unknown-Probably Around $2)
TT Motor: Fluctuated between 52 to 55 dB-A.
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 99 to 101 dB-A.
Signal Cable 6 Foot, 10 AWG Power Cord ($74)
TT Motor: Meter read 52 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 54 dB-A.
Vacuum: Meter read 98 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 98.5 dB-A.
PS Audio Statement SC 9.8 Foot, 7 AWG Power Cord ($759)
TT Motor: Meter read 50 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 51 dB-A.
Vacuum: Meter read 98 dB-A most of the time and would intermittently jump to 98.5 dB-A.
I sent these results to VPI and requested their comments. Specifically, I asked if they had any information or insight regarding whether there was any benefit to the longevity of the turntable motor and vacuum motor with a better quality power cord. I received this response:
"You are the first to try this, it never entered our minds in 30 years to do this. We will check into it though." - Mike
Power Cords Plugged Into A PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC Regenerator
Results were a little better with regenerated AC:
Stock 6.5 Foot, 18 AWG Power Cord (Cost Unknown-Probably ~$2)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97.5 and 98 dB-A.
Signal Cable 6 Foot, 10 AWG Power Cord ($74)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97 and 97.5 dB-A.
PS Audio Statement SC 9.8 Foot, 7 AWG Power Cord ($759)
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97 and 97.5 dB-A.
The turntable motor ran more quiet and steady with regenerated AC, but I did not perceive a difference in the vacuum motor's sound level.
After Dynamat Treatment (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
With a 4-1/2" hole cut into the 16.5's side to accommodate the fan, efforts to reduce the vacuum's noise were significantly compromised. Still, I wanted to see if the application of Dynamat Extreme sound insulation would help. The remaining noise measurements were only done with a Signal Cable power cord plugged into the wall since that is how I planned to use the 16.5.
TT Motor: Fluctuated between 50-51 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 98-99 dB-A.
Compared to the fiberglass insulation case, the turntable motor noise measured slightly lower with the Dynamat but the motor sounded noticeably more quiet and steady. This was probably due to the better damping of cabinet resonances. The vacuum noise was about the same.
Adding Fiberglass Batting After Dynamat Treatment (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
The fiberglass batting was reattached in its original locations over the Dynamat. The turntable motor and vacuum sound levels measured slightly lower, but I did not hear a difference.
TT Motor: 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97-97.5 dB-A.
Covering Fan Hole With 3/4" MDF Panel (Signal Cable Cord Plugged Into Wall)
I heard no difference in turntable motor noise. Of course, the vacuum noise was significantly reduced when the 4-1/2" fan hole was patched.
TT Motor: 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 94.5-95 dB-A.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
Comments
-
Power Line Fuse Replacement
Figure 13. Don't blow me, bro...I'm expensive!
The stock fuse was replaced with a 5mm x 20mm HiFi Tuning 10 amp fast blow fuse oriented in the direction of current flow (arrow pointing to right).
I did not expect any substantial improvement from a fuse upgrade since an upgraded power cord, regenerated AC and significant vibration abatement only brought modest improvements. I did it mainly to see how many naysayer brain aneurysms would result.:)
The level and character of the turntable motor noise changed with the HiFi Tuning fuse. The motor was audibly more quiet and the character of its sound changed from a grinding type sound to a smooth mechanical hum more reminiscent of a large grandfather clock rather than a grindstone. As for the vacuum motor...it is what it is and a nice pair of foam ear plugs helps out a lot.:)
The sound level measurements with the HFT fuse were:
TT Motor: Less than 50 dB-A (lower limit of meter is 50 dB-A).
Vacuum: Fluctuated between 97 and 97.5 dB-A.
These measurements were identical to those with regenerated AC.
Cleaning Performance
I did not evaluate the cleaning effectiveness of the 16.5 with an aftermarket power cord compared to the stock power cord. It appeared that two turns under the vacuum wand was sufficient to remove all fluid whether the stock or an aftermarket power cord was used. I did compare the sound of a totally hand cleaned record to one cleaned on the 16.5 and there was no difference.
Figure 14.The cleaning process starts off with dry brushing and steam cleaning.
My record cleaning ritual consists of:
1. Visual Inspection.
2. Dry brushing with a Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush.
3. Auditioning the record at various locations on each side.
4. Steam cleaning with the Shark steam cleaner.
5. Wet Scrubbing with a Mobile Fidelity Brush.
6. Vacuuming.
7. Applying record cleaning fluid.
8. Wet Scrubbing with a different Mobile Fidelity Brush.
9. Vacuuming.
10. Visual Inspection
11. Auditioning the record at various locations on each side.
12. Placing in a Mobile Fidelity inner sleeve.
13. Placing a painter's tape sticker on the album cover indicating that it has been cleaned.
To save wear on my cartridge stylus, it would be good to set up a test rig with a second turntable in order to evaluate pre-cleaned records...but I don't want to get that deep into vinyl.:)
I use a homemade record cleaning fluid consisting of 75% distilled water (regular, not ultra pure), 25% isopropyl alcohol (99% pure) and 4 drops of Triton X-114 detergent. Prior to acquiring the VPI 16.5, I used a 6.5 h.p. vacuum with a modified crevice tool to remove record cleaning fluids.
I never buy heavily soiled or visibly scratched records. However, even a brand new record might come with some surface noise that can be be totally removed or drastically reduced with intensive cleaning.
My VPI 16.5 came with 100 Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab (MFSL) inner sleeves and two MFSL record cleaning solutions: Super Deep Cleaner and Super Record Wash. The Super Deep Cleaner is applied and vacuumed off, then the Super Record Wash is applied and vacuumed off. The two-step MFSL cleaning process did not work any better or worse than my one-step home brew fluid. I also found that the 16.5 did not clean records any better than hand cleaning and vacuuming, but it is significantly more convenient and efficient.
I own four copies of the "Madhouse 8" LP, which were purchased in new condition. They all exhibited light surface noise (pops, ticks) primarily in the lead in grooves, dead grooves between tracks and lead out grooves. Deep cleaning removed almost all of this noise and improved the overall signal to noise ratio.
Figure 15. Fancy cleaning fluids and cleaning machines are more convenient than the old fashioned way, but I didn't find them to
be better.
Cleaning Trial 1
Copy #1 had been steam cleaned and hand washed with my home brew fluid then hand vacuumed. Copy #2 was steam cleaned then washed and vacuumed on the 16.5 using the home brew fluid. No overall difference was heard between the two records.
Cleaning Trial 2
Copy #1 (previously hand cleaned with home brew fluid) was steam cleaned again and then cleaned with the MFSL fluids on the 16.5. No improvement or difference was heard. Copy #2 (previously machine cleaned with home brew fluid) was steam cleaned and then cleaned with the MFSL fluids on the 16.5. Still, no overall improvement or difference was heard between Copy #1 and Copy #2.
Cleaning Trial 3
Copy #3 was steam cleaned and washed and vacuumed on the 16.5 using the MFSL fluids. There was no overall difference between it and Copies #1 and #2.
Unwashed Copy #4 sounded veiled, less dynamic and certainly displayed significantly more surface noise than the washed copies. The washed copies exhibited:
1. More quiet, "blacker" background.
2. Lower noise floor as evidenced by apparently louder and more dynamic sound.
3. More overall detail and clarity.
4. More bass articulation and micro and macro "growl" effects.
5. Removal of almost all audible surface contaminants.
6. Recording space reverb cues much more audible.
Discussion Of Results
Even if a 16.5 owner never drives their RCM into thermal shutdown, the addition of a fan is a good idea because it reduces heat stress on the vacuum motor. This, no doubt, translates into longer vacuum life.
Neither I, nor VPI, knows if there is any real benefit of vibration abatement and power line noise reduction to the function and longevity of the turntable and vacuum. From an aesthetic standpoint, the annoying rumble, grumble and grinding sound of the turntable motor was reduced to the point where it sounded like a smooth running clock. I wear ear plugs when running the 16.5's vacuum.
Conclusion
My research on this RCM only uncovered three major complaints:
1. The noise of the vacuum motor.
2. The annoying grinding, grumbling, rumbling noise of the turntable motor.
3. The vacuum overheating and shutting down during a long cleaning session (15 or more records).
Cutting a 4-1/2" hole in the cabinet definitely didn't help reduce the vacuum motor noise. I have to rely on foam ear plugs to diminish this noise.
A combination of a better power cord, audio grade fuse and adding extensive vibration abatement material to the cabinet not only reduced the turntable motor noise but also changed the character of the noise to a more non-annoying sound. Even if there had been no benefit from replacing the 16.5's stock power cord, I still would have done it because the thick "snake skin" MagicPower cord looks nicer and more "high endish".:)
Prior to the fan installation, I did not clean a large batch of records to determine the thermal shutoff point of my HW-16.5. After the fan installation, I did clean 25 records and the motor case was barely warm.
Do you "need" to spend several hundred dollars on a record cleaning machine? No. Of course not...just like you don't "need" to spend several hundred dollars on a clothes washing machine or a dish washing machine. Residential grade washing machines, whether for clothes, dishes or records, are luxury items. As with hand washing of clothes and dishes, hand washing of records works very well...if you don't mind spending the time.
Do you "need" to use commercially available record cleaning formulas? That might depend on the condition of the records you buy. I, and others, have found that the commercially available record wash formulas didn't do a better or worse job on our records than our preferred home brew formula. Any formula that lifts and/or dissolves contaminants out of the grooves and does not not leave a residue or damage vinyl is a good formula. However, there are performance differences in record cleaning detergents and solvents and some may work more efficiently on heavily soiled records.
Acknowledgments
I would like to thank forum members (and VPI 16.5 owners) Joe (hearingimpared) and Ted (reeltrouble1) for their insights prior to purchasing the VPI HW-16.5. I would like to thank Mike at VPI Industries for his modification advice and assistance.
Where have you been all my life? Audio grade fuses are HOT!! They make everything sound much better!!
Mannnnnnn...you really need to calm down and stop screaming in that high-pitched voice.~DK
Nooooooooo...No! No! I will NOT calm down!! Audio grade fuses make my feathers flutter!!! Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Reserved for follow up.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
-
Great write up and work as usual Ray. Now if you would only upgrade mine.:D
-
I have a question about the fan. I know it is vented to allow cool air from outside to enter but would it make sense to mount it on the inside with no hole but still blowing air against the motor? I'm thinking with continuous use eventually the internal air would be hot enough that the fan would no longer provide protection but I'm also thinking that would take a fair amount of time. Any thoughts on that? I like the idea of cooling the motor somewhat but I wouldn't want all that sound escaping.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
-
I wonder if using something such as Vibrapods under the unit would provide further reduction in motor noise levels?
-
hearingimpared wrote: »Great write up and work as usual Ray. Now if you would only upgrade mine.:D
I was looking for someone to upgrade mine, but no luck.:(I have a question about the fan. I know it is vented to allow cool air from outside to enter but would it make sense to mount it on the inside with no hole but still blowing air against the motor? I'm thinking with continuous use eventually the internal air would be hot enough that the fan would no longer provide protection but I'm also thinking that would take a fair amount of time. Any thoughts on that? I like the idea of cooling the motor somewhat but I wouldn't want all that sound escaping.
madmax
This never entered my mind and I did not run across a report from anyone who did it this way. If the fan I used was mounted inside with no hole, it couldn't be mounted on the inside cabinet wall because the force of air coming from the fan would be greatly diminished. The fan could be mounted on some type of pedestal directly in front of the vacuum motor, but this adds another level of complexity with regard to rigidly mounting and bracing the fan. Then, as you pointed out, warm/hot air would be recirculating rather than cool air being brought in from outside. I'm sure this would be better than no fan at all, but the vacuum compartment only has a volume of 0.39 cu. ft. (13" x 8" x 6.5") and t probably wouldn't talk long for things to heat up in that little space.
Since the fan would no longer have an adequately sized air intake, the additional wind turbulence inside the cabinet might put additional stress on the vacuum motor, which might accelerate motor heating.
I knew I was going to get more vacuum noise with the hole cut into the cabinet, but the vacuum was so loud to begin with that I had to wear ear plugs anyway. At least with the fan, I don't have to worry about thermal shutdown.I wonder if using something such as Vibrapods under the unit would provide further reduction in motor noise levels?
I'd like to know that too.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
What would be really cool is a peltier juntion mounted on the case, heat sinks attached to each side with a small internal and small external fan blowing across the heat sinks. The inside heat sink is cold, the exterior one is hot. You would need a transformer and rectifier (for DC) to power the peltier junction.
madmax
http://www.apogeekits.com/peltier_device.htm
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
any chance of learning the recipe for you homebrew cleaning solution or perhaps obtaining some?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »any chance of learning the recipe for you homebrew cleaning solution or perhaps obtaining some?
Been covered several times here at CP.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
nooshinjohn wrote: »any chance of learning the recipe for you homebrew cleaning solution or perhaps obtaining some?
The recipe was given in the 3rd paragraph after Figure 14 in post #2 in this thread. I got the formula from the Teres Audio website.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »recipe was given in the 3rd paragraph after Figure 14 in post #2
Ha ha, reads like a legal document.
Vinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
DK - another fascinating experiment. I've found that no matter whether you use a RCM or not, the vacuum part of the cleaning regimen makes the difference. I always figured if the vacuum on my 16.5 ever goes bad that I am going to look at using my drywall dust vacuum which is quieter and has a power sensing outlet to automatically turn it on. Plus I could have it setting a good distance away from the RCM.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
If my 16.5's vacuum ever goes bad, I'm ordering another 16.5 vacuum motor. No more hand vacuuming for me.:)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
-
What would be really cool is a peltier juntion...
I'd settle for a vacuum motor with the same strength as the 16.5's but sounds no louder than a small cooling fan.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »The recipe was given in the 3rd paragraph after Figure 14 in post #2 in this thread. I got the formula from the Teres Audio website.
The formula I use is tweaked a bit from the one given on the Teres Audio website. The original formula calls for only 1 drop of X-114 detergent. I ran across other versions of the formula where some people said they got better results with 3 or four drops of detergent.
I have never compared the 1 drop formula with the 4 drop formula and I don't know that 4 drops isn't overkill. I do know that my records sound better and are a shinier silky black (even compared to brand new records) after using this formula.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Raife,
During my cleaning process I rinse the record with distilled water after vacuuming off the cleaning fluid, I have also purchased another pick-up tube just for this process as changing them out is simple, I also have blue tape on that tube to signify it is just for water. After vacuuming up the distilled water I then dry-brush the record with a curved Stanton carbon fiber brush I especially like. I found that during the rinse cycle I did indeed see some residue from the cleaning fluid that had been left behind, not much difference in SQ, but I did not like the idea of any trace amounts of fluid being left on the record.
Just something to think about and glad you had sense enough to upgrade to a decent in-line fuse.
RT1 -
I purchased a spare pick-up tube with the 16.5 to have one on hand when the velvet on the first one wore out, so it would be easy to try this.
I seem to recall hearingimpared mentioning that he does a rinse after vacuuming also.
I'm wondering if another shot of steam after the cleaning fluid is vacuumed off would be better than a rinse?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I've recently been playing around with different home brew RCFs on my VPI-16.5, I may try some of your sound deadening ideas. I rarely clean very many records at a time so I probably won't bother with the fan, but should I ever do that, I'd probably try putting the fan on the bottom of the unit rather than the back and putting taller feet on it so it has room to breathe from below. I don't recall, did you dynamat the bottom? If not, maybe that could reduce the sound considerably more.
Another thing I haven't tried yet, but plan to is instead of a plain DI (deionized water or distilled water) rinse, I'll probably put a few drops of the Triton X-114 in my rinse water. It should allow the DI water to get much deeper into the grooves than just water which has a lot of surface tension and beads up. A few drops in a gallon probably won't leave enough on the record after vacuuming to make a difference (assuming any remaining Triton doesn't evaporate).
Best Regards,
Entropy -
I did Dynamat the bottom (see fig. 11). Further sound reduction will be difficult with that 4-1/2" diameter hole in the side.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
-
You don't need my stamp of approval here, but IMO it's a good idea using that cooling fan in there, DK; you probably bought yourself quite a lot of time before that motor will need replacing, as I know for a fact that vacuum motors as a rule do indeed get VERY hot after awhile.
I am surprised that VPI does not make their RCM with the fan already in there?So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Now I know why you guys are into vinyl...it sure as hell ain't the sound, it's those purdy pics on the album covers!!! You don't get that art on CD's that's for sure. Carry on vacuuming!!!! :rolleyes: Oh, & nice write up."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
-
I am surprised that VPI does not make their RCM with the fan already in there?
The next model up, the HW-17 ($1300) does come with a fan.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Very cool and interesting -
If I wasn't from around here I'd think someone was insane! ; )
Upgraded power cord and dynamat for an RCM.Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels -
phipiper10 wrote: »If I wasn't from around here I'd think someone was insane! ; )
Upgraded power cord and dynamat for an RCM.
....and power line fuse too! Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Dear Darqueknight
I would like to ask a question about Pass labs x0.2.
James -
DarqueKnight,
by chance did you remove the platter or motor from the cleaner? I ask since I am toying with the idea to build a cleaner. I know which motor I plan to use. It will be the same motor used in the VPI HW-17. I am not sure how the platter/bearing connects to the motor, much less what platter/bearing to use/find/purchase. VPI does not sell such assembly. Do you by chance have any pics of this connection also?
Thanks,
Sam -
Hi Sam,
No, I did not take apart the motor/platter assembly.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
You wouldn't happen to be interested in doing so would you? Heh, Heh!!
Sam -
An aftermarket power cord on an RCM? You're a mad man, and I dig that about you baby.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
-
DarqueKnight wrote: »No, I did not take apart the motor/platter assembly.You wouldn't happen to be interested in doing so would you?
Sam,
The platter was easily removed using the instructions attached at the bottom of this post. The instructions were found here: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28935
The pictures below of my VPI 16.5 illustrate the platter removal process
Figure 1. VPI 16.5 platter.
Figure 2. VPI 16.5 platter with center portion of cork mat removed.
Figure 3. VPI 16.5 motor spindle.
Figure 4. VPI 16.5 platter off, top view. The platter is made of melamine covered MDF with a glued-on cork mat.
Figure 5. VPI 16.5 platter off, bottom view.An aftermarket power cord on an RCM? You're a mad man, and I dig that about you baby.
Why be NORMAL?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
