Ted Kennedy.....dead at 77

brettw22

jjwm27 wrote: »

even though i couldnt stand the hard core scocialist R.I.P. Ted. at least the right wingers are showing respect, if it was George W the leftys would be dancing in the streets.

:rolleyes: thanks for posting and glad you're here.......lol

SWFalken

Kex wrote: »

Now for a somewhat more nuanced commentary, perhaps, from the White House political director for President Reagan and former chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/26/rollins.kennedy.gop/index.html

It's nice to see a more classy approach IMO. Even when you utterly and completely disagree with someone, it's still possible, preferable even, IMO, to remain respectful of the dead, at least for the duration of a period of mourning for the family and next of kin.

I will never give respect to a man who left a living human being to drown to death because he was not man enough to get help from several available sources in an attempt to avoid a politically damaging situation. He was an absolute failure as a basic human being. What I find classless is the outright whitewashing of this amoral drunkard's overwhelming character flaws. I give the dead the same respect that they deserved in life. Do not stand in judgement of what I have said by holding up the words of another public figure trying to score cheap political points in a public forum. That is classless and a poor excuse for an argument.

brettw22

Calm down SW......I'm pretty sure you'll be ok if you don't aneurism out over Ted dying.....or having lived at all.

He'll be judged accordingly on his shortcomings.....as will you......

SKsolutions

I may have opposing views, but. . . Like him or hate him, he showed up every day at a job he didn't need for 40 years after having his brothers gunned down around him performing the same service. He didn't do it for himself, but for people who didn't have enough money to buy a voice in DC. The sum of a life is not a moment in time SW^. Whether he did it for repentance or other reasons there are likely millions of people better off that he was here fighting for them.

nooshinjohn

SKsolutions wrote: »

I may have opposing views, but. . . Like him or hate him, he showed up every day at a job he didn't need for 40 years after having his brothers gunned down around him performing the same service. He didn't do it for himself, but for people who didn't have enough money to buy a voice in DC. The sum of a life is not a moment in time SW^. Whether he did it for repentance or other reasons there are likely millions of people better off that he was here fighting for them.

Your comments are wrong on more than one point here.. He showed up every day for the power he craved right til the very end. It is an American tragedy what hapened to his brothers, but Ted Kennedy was the Billy Carter of his clan... He did everything he could FOR himself,and didnt give two **** about the poor and downtrodden that do not have a voice. He, like all libs, felt the american people are to stupid to care for themselves and need the government to wipe their asses for them. This healthcare for all crap he was fighting for will be his legacy to be sure, as will the trillions it will cost and the lost freedoms that come with it...

Barefoot

Like him or not, Ted Kennedy's legacy will be one as a champion to the poor. And he fought for that legacy to the very end. That alone warrants my respect. I may not have always agreed with him but this is not about that. A man has died leaving a huge hole for his family, friends, and colleagues in the Senate to fill. Much like the death of Tony Snow, there will be enough vultures from the other side attempting to take advantage of the man's demise.

As far as the Chappaquiddick incident is concerned, it wouldn't be prudent of me to say that I agree or disagree with the grand jury's decision. I am not a qualified legal scholar, nor could I ever hope to be nearly as informed as those relevant to the nuances of the case. However, unlike some that post here, in a stereo forum for godsakes, I do not pretend otherwise. R.I.P. Senator.

SKsolutions

I've always wondered why Ted's head was so big. Obviously, it's because Noosh is living in there, and knows why Ted got up in the morning.
Try reading my first sentence. Nice pot-stirring too Noosh.

Barefoot, nice post. I live in MA, and he and his family saved the lives of many elderly and poor in the state.

tonyb

I'm sure Ted did some good in his life without asking for a donation. I would stamd to guess though,the bad outweighed the good by a hefty margin.The man wasn't liked too much by the people,outside his state anyway.As a husband and father,Can't speak of that,he most likely was a decent guy.What you see now is politics being played again as nobody will say what they feel for political reasons,and some will stoop low enough to invoke his death to get this healthcare bill passed.

nooshinjohn

SKsolutions wrote: »

Try reading my first sentence. Nice pot-stirring too Noosh.

not trying to stir the pot... I just don't feel the guy did a damn thing worthy of the legacy his brothers left for him. But seeing as though you are from there I will not say anything else except in polls taken about a month ago, he had an approval rating of just 51% favorable. I guess I count myself with the other 49%...;)

bobman1235

nooshinjohn wrote: »

not trying to stir the pot... I just don't feel the guy did a damn thing worthy of the legacy his brothers left for him. But seeing as though you are from there I will not say anything else except in polls taken about a month ago, he had an approval rating of just 51% favorable. I guess I count myself with the other 49%...;)

Look, I didn't agree with any of Teddy's politics, but to say he did NOTHING worthy of his "legacy" is ignoring a lot of good he did do. Whatever his motives were (which none of us can KNOW) there are some programs that he helped enact that have done a LOT of good for a lot of people who needed it. Meals on Wheels for the elderly comes to mind.

Again, I don't agree with the guy's politics in the least, but I do believe he did what he thought was right. Most people in politics are probably for the most part doing the same, we just disagree with them and immediately tag them "evil" rather than just plain old "wrong."

nooshinjohn

I did not say he did nothing, rather I do not agree with what he did, and more importantly what he and his family got away with because of WHO he was. My grandfather back in the mid 1980's got six months in jail for dui. It was his 8th time being busted for it. The times prior to that the police just brought him home and another officer drove his car home for him. I am not excusing my grandfather, who lost most of the supporting muscles in his spine during WWII. My point in bringing it up is simply that Teddy or someone in the family broke more of the laws that he himself sponsored or wrote and every time found a way to get away with doing so. Sure he did some great things, and some horrible things that if you or I did them we would never get out from under the jail they would build on top of us. I am done here in this thread...

zombie boy 2000

nooshinjohn wrote: »

and the lost freedoms that come with it...

Could you be any more vague? I feel like I'm waltzing through Salvador Dali country here. You do realize that BOTH sides have volleyed this accusation at the other for years now?

Maybe you should try a more level-headed approach before using a man's death as a platform to spew your agenda. "All libs".... such a broad stroke, don't you think?

Kex

SWFalken wrote: »

... Do not stand in judgement of what I have said by holding up the words of another public figure trying to score cheap political points in a public forum. ...

For somebody with sixty-five posts in four years, you seem to know a lot about scoring "cheap political points in a public forum" you barely frequent ... As for the other public figure you refer to, if he was good enough for President Reagan, then he's good enough for me.

I have never defended what the Senator did or didn't do. I wasn't there. I'm too young to know about what actually happened at the time, and, in any case, I have no empathy or animosity for the man, alive or dead. I don't care, you apparently do care. In any case he'll be meeting a perfectly competent judge of his fate very shortly.

SWFalken

brettw22 wrote: »

Calm down SW......I'm pretty sure you'll be ok if you don't aneurism out over Ted dying.....or having lived at all.

He'll be judged accordingly on his shortcomings.....as will you......

What gives you any insight into my state of mind over this man dying? This is twice now that you have posted utterly useless comments to a post that I have made. The fact that have been wrong both times leads me to believe that you have no skill whatsoever in judging both the state of mind of the poster nor the intent of the post. I have said it before, you are one of the most useless people to post on this board and I would appreciate it if you would ignore my posts in the future. Being judged by my maker has nothing to do with the fact that some people are fawning over a morally bankrupt and wholly contemptible man that most of them no nothing about. I only made a simple comment to the contrary. I hope that he made peace with his savior, if he believed that he had one. That is however between him and god and in no way changes the fact that he was a spineless murderer that should not be held up as someone who is deserving of praise and adulation in death. Suggesting that I am worked up over this misses the mark, I don't get really worked up over anything. If you have any insight as to how you came to the determination that I was anything but calm when I made my post then please share your remarkable talent with the rest of the group.

SWFalken

Kex wrote: »

For somebody with sixty-five posts in four years, you seem to know a lot about scoring "cheap political points in a public forum" you barely frequent ... As for the other public figure you refer to, if he was good enough for President Reagan, then he's good enough for me.

I have never defended what the Senator did or didn't do. I wasn't there. I'm too young to know about what actually happened at the time, and, in any case, I have no empathy or animosity for the man, alive or dead. I don't care, you apparently do care. In any case he'll be meeting a perfectly competent judge of his fate very shortly.

Ahh, the ignorance of the young. Not being a politician, I was in no way trying to score political points. I love that you used being too young to absolve yourself of responsibility for your pathetic post. It's almost as if it is impossible to educate yourself about past events before making comments in a public forum. I wasn't old enough to have been aware of Ted Kennedy's spineless actions concerning the night that he allowed an innocent person to drown to death. I am however smart enough to be able to read several accounts of the nights events and formulate my own opinions about the man's character. This isn't about judging the man. You are right that we are not qualified to judge him. We are however perfectly capable of making decisions on how we honor or dishonor people who have spent time with us. In my opinion, because of this action and other documented character failures I will not pay any respect to the dead Kennedy. As for having sixty five posts, this is the second account that I have had on these forums. I have lurked and posted on these forums almost since the forum's inception. No, the other account didn't have a lot of posts either. I am not a prolific poster, I am the lurking champion of the universe. One more thing, don't use Ronald Reagan's name to make your arguments. He was my President, He still is my President. I doubt that you know anything about the great man. I stand by my original remarks, that man was scoring cheap political points.

brettw22

SW, if I post here but don't address your dribble would it bother you?

Ricardo

SWFalken wrote: »

One more thing, don't use Ronald Reagan's name to make your arguments. He was my President, He still is my President.

Wow. He has really changed a lot...

zombie boy 2000

I'm sorry.... but I have to say that James K. Polk is my President. Anybody else have a pet prez? Gotta get 'em all... gotta get 'em all...

kevhed72

Anyone catch the original Fronst / Nixon interviews on PBS last night? Pretty interesting stuff. Although Nixon kept spinning every question back to what his original intent or motives were (he stated political containment), the interviewer kept at him. I will give Nixon credit for at least sitting down for the interviews...

I know this is way off the original topic, but worhtwhile watching on TV.

Kex

SWFalken wrote: »

... One more thing, don't use Ronald Reagan's name to make your arguments. He was my President, He still is my President. I doubt that you know anything about the great man. ...

Well then, perhaps you should thank Kennedy for totally discrediting Jimmy Carter in his battle for the party nomination, and helping to enable an easy victory for Ronald Reagan. It could easily be argued that Kennedy virtually guaranteed the defeat of Carter.

Anyway, I suppose I'm just being the devil's advocate for the sake of it (and because there are no trolls around at the moment) since I'm not even a Kennedy supporter. I'm not going to discuss politics any further in an audio forum, (where it is against the rules, BTW) and I'm not arrogant enough to consider myself a better judge than those who were not only there at the time, but were fully acquainted with all the facts and circumstances of what occured, without having to rely on what the press reported. After all, aren't those the same guys that are now reporting what a "great man" Kennedy was, so how reliable could they be? Furthermore, I don't live in the past either.

nooshinjohn

Seems to me that whenever any political figure dies all we hear is how great they were, as I remember hearing the same after Nixon died. When the "historians" get started on them is when we find out what scumbags a majority of them were.

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Seems to me that whenever any political figure dies all we hear is how great they were, as I remember hearing the same after Nixon died. When the "historians" get started on them is when we find out what scumbags a majority of them were.

Out of respect for the family,people will always look for the good to display and usually wait a few weeks after the funeral to start casting stones.Another example would be Jesse Jackson,we all know what he is,but when he dies,that will all be forgotten,yes ? As Robin Williams would say in his best Pakistani voice..".He was a ****...":)

John30_30

Kex wrote: »

Well then, perhaps you should thank Kennedy for totally discrediting Jimmy Carter in his battle for the party nomination, and helping to enable an easy victory for Ronald Reagan. It could easily be argued that Kennedy virtually guaranteed the defeat of Carter.

No, actually what sealed Carter was the unauthorized, and therefore treasonous activity by Reagan's staff negotiating with Iran behind closed doors to guarantee that the hostages would not be released until after the election.

Yes, treason.

hearingimpared

John30_30 wrote: »

No, actually what sealed Carter was the unauthorized, and therefore treasonous activity by Reagan's staff negotiating with Iran behind closed doors to guarantee that the hostages would not be released until after the election.

Yes, treason.

Give me some of what you're smoking.

John30_30

hearingimpared wrote: »

Give me some of what you're smoking.

You want the truth?




You can't handle the truth.

nooshinjohn

John30_30 wrote: »

No, actually what sealed Carter was the unauthorized, and therefore treasonous activity by Reagan's staff negotiating with Iran behind closed doors to guarantee that the hostages would not be released until after the election.

Yes, treason.

I was not going to contribute further in this thread but you sir, are way off base with that remark.:mad: Why Carter was not re-elected was double digit unemployment, double digit interest rates, rampant inflation and his spineless and inept handling of the Iranian Hostage crisis. The only words spoken to the government of Iran by the incoming Reagan administration came after he was elected and were basically this... "Carter is a wimp, Reagan on the other hand will give you until the count of five to stop this **** or you can all need to get 1,000,000 spf sunblock because your asses will be glowing in the dark!"

Trust me on that as I know someone that was there.

Want to talk treason... Ask your current White House occupant why he needs to create his very own "civilian defense force that is as well trained,funded and equipped as the U.S. military" and this are HIS OWN WORDS! time to stop having KOO-COO Puffs for breakfast and smell the EFFIN" coffee!

John30_30

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I was not going to contribute further in this thread but you sir, are way off base with that remark.:mad: Why Carter was not re-elected was double digit unemployment, double digit interest rates, rampant inflation and his spineless and inept handling of the Iranian Hostage crisis. The only words spoken to the government of Iran by the incoming Reagan administration came after he was elected and were basically this... "Carter is a wimp, Reagan on the other hand will give you until the count of five to stop this **** or you can all need to get 1,000,000 spf sunblock because your asses will be glowing in the dark!"

Trust me on that as I know someone that was there.

I wrote "what sealed it", moron. That stuff you believe was all P.R.

Reagan sent Marines into Lebanon, 300 of them got blown up in a couple of weeks, he turned tail and yanked the rest of them out. Probably the smartest thing to do, but it was not the version you've got in your head.

The Iranians were definitely not afraid of Reagan. They were the real culprits who blew up that Lockerbie jet, not that shmuck from Libya.
Know why? Motive. U.S. pilots shot down an unarmed Iranian passenger jet carrying approximately 290 civilians.
Read some history.

p.s. Welcome to my killfile.

bobman1235

John30_30 knows the TRUTH guys. He was there. How dare you doubt his knowledge.

hearingimpared

I still want some of what he is smoking.

polkatese

Keiko wrote: »

This thread needs...

Lord Vader :eek:

No Mike, this thread needs Harumi....