Just got REPO

Retro152

Caligula,
Owe you an apology, see this look's like it's on the up and up. I was very sceptical, mixed with a little sarcasm in my earlier post's. Seemed a little sketchy and too unbelievable for me. Thought the circumstance's were a little far fetched. Anyway, much luck with this, hope it work's out for you!:D



Pat.

exalted512

wow, so you couldn't even move out of town? wow.
-Cody

concealer404

exalted512 wrote: »

wow, so you couldn't even move out of town? wow.
-Cody

Yeah, that sounds weird to me, too.... I can see out of state, but i'm not even sure that out of town can be a legal stipulation in a contract.

tcrossma

CaligulaPolk wrote: »

A LESSON LEARNED NOT TO TRUST PEOPLE

Don't trust car dealers, that's for sure. There's a bunch of honest people out there too, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious. Just use reputable people for your business transactions and you'll be fine.

strider

Is there an organization other then the Better Business Bureau that tracks car dealers and how reputable they are?

maximillian

CaligulaPolk wrote: »

Next time wont happen. and i will expose them, will contact philly news and let them know. at least i can do something about it.

What do you mean "next time". Call the Philly news (papers, TV, radio DJ's). Blog about it and post a YouTube video. Call the BBB and the PA attorney general. Also call the dealer's car company and complain. Complain to everyone and anyone you can. However, do NOT lie in any public statement you make or you could be sued.

Just because there is a clause in a contract does not make it legal, or just. Continue to ask the lawyer if they can legally put a "cannot move out of state" clause in your contract.

Expose the dealer in his actions. Make sure the news orgs know that they left your wife stranded and had to walk miles with a baby to get home. The dealer could cave and back down from their ridiculous position. You may be able to get your car back too.

We are in an economic slump and the last thing a car dealer needs is bad press. Perhaps even threatening to do the above may convince the dealer to come to a deal.

AudioGenics

the location clause...was that in a single signed document ?

found this statement not sure if relevant:

Single Document Rule:
The Automobile Sales Finance Act (AFSA) provides that all obligations of both parties in a transaction must be contained in a single document (which explains why purchase agreements are so long in the auto industry).

AudioGenics

also try this

http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bpoa/cwp/view.asp?a=1104&q=433233

State Board of Vehicle Manufacturers, Dealers and Salespersons
P.O. Box 2649, Harrisburg, PA 17105-2649
Phone - (717) 783-1697
Fax - (717) 787-0250
RA-ST-VEHICLE@state.pa.us

apphd

I’m getting confused. Early I thought you said you bought this shortly before you moved.
Then you said this: “it says must have valid address in PA. My wife overlooked that when she bought it. We never expected to move out of pa 1 year ago.”
Then this: “I felt that it was the plan when we told the dealer who i bought from that we were moving and they never said nothing until few weeks later.”

So I’m just confused, but if you told the dealer you were moving, and they tossed the address clause in the contract without telling you, you may have legal recourse. Of course it’s your word against theirs, unless you can find others who have financed through them and this wording is not in their contract.

Of course this is all thinking out loud, be me and others. If you want to see what you can do you need to talk to PROFESSIONALS not my and others speculation of law. The 800 number for the AG might be able to give enough info for you to decide if it is worth the cost of legal counsel.
One thing I would offer if you go this route is: do not use a lawyer from the same area as the dealer. In the small county I live in all the lawyers know each other and face each other all the time in court. It is said by many that more deals are reached during lunch than in the court room. By this I mean that they trade off cases with each other (let me win this one and I’ll give you that one).
Good Luck

PhantomOG

If everything on your end was on the up and up (absolutely no late payments, etc) I'd say your best recourse is the local media in PA. As shady as the loan was, your wife agreed to it. Good luck trying to get one of the local stations or papers to do a story on you. It sounds compelling enough to me.

Hillbilly61

I dunno.... I just get my cars the traditional way. Pay off the dealer with personal funds or a check from the bank, who I have the loan with, and the bank has the car as collatoral for the balance owed.

There has never been a problem for me taking a car acquired this way anywhere in the USA or Canada.

(Never would drive my own property into Mexico ... folk will steal your wheels there, in front of you and there is nothing you can do to prevent the theft ... things work differently there).

CaligulaPolk

July month was soo bad!! am glad its august and hopefully things will turn out better. I need to buy a car asap (if it has to be $1,000 car, NO CHOICE) before i return work next week. Good thing that my new boss is understanding when i am supposed return work tomorrow. Also i will have to appear court in philly this friday. YEA The shady dealer are suing me and taking me to court for fee's and stuff... this sucks when I SPENT MUCH MONEY FOR NOTHING and has to return what i worked hard for. Last minute flight ticket cost too much for two person (ME AND WIFE), also will have to rent a car, stay in hotel, more more money to spend on and about 2 thousand dollars to get a lawyer.. LIKE I SAID I LOST MONEY and need get 1,400 dollars back from svs for first payment for lawyer by this friday (hes asking 1,000 and will split another 1,000 in two payments , 500 next month and 500 in Oct.) UNLESS I GET MY FAT CHECK THIS WEEK, itll be entire different story and i get to keep my sub. I LEARNED A LESSON HERE and will watch out with dealers in the future. this is not fair!! Was gonna take my family to disney world before my daughter go back to school and we have to cancel it. my daughter understands and is mad at that **** dealer for ruining. I WILL SAY YOU MOTHERF###R for leaving my child and wife at store stranded and this whole shady business. I AM STILL PISSED ABOUT IT, FORGET JEEP, but what they did to my child is NOT OK!!!

Am trying to think positive and get this over with.

leroyjr1

Think positive, hopefully everything will work itself out.

CaligulaPolk

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Think positive, hopefully everything will work itself out.

yea my wife say samething.. but it still eat me. What a awful experience EVER! Ive been venting everyday.....

BaggedLancer

I'm just not buying it, there is a piece to this story that is missing.

concealer404

Be sure you bring up the issue that you "pre-paid" July in advance. They owe you money, and as long as they owe your money, they're going to have a hard time standing up in court through all of this.

maximillian

Bring records of all your payments to court to show the judge that you were never behind. Often judges frown on businesses wasting the courts time. They repo'ed for no good reason other than to screw you. If you can show the court that the fees they incurred were do to their own greed then you could possibly win back your car. Again, there is probably some legal writ that says that in a contract a party does not have a right to execute termination clauses if the main part of the contract (you paying, they giving you a car) is being fulfilled. Check with a GOOD attorney that knows PA law.

Counter-sue for court expenses, airfare for flying back to PA, the cab ride for your wife when she was stranded, and any other expenses. Also, make sure you get power of attorney from your wife since only you can travel. She is the party to the contract, not you.

shack

concealer404 wrote:

Be sure you bring up the issue that you "pre-paid" July in advance. They owe you money, and as long as they owe your money, they're going to have a hard time standing up in court through all of this.

Actually...the amount and timing of the payment is negligible and will have little (if any) bearing on the case. According to the OP the car was repossessed due to a clause in the contract that did not allow the vehicle to be moved out of state while there was a lien on it. If it was a "valid" repo (not talking about ethics here, just legality) and it appears to be...the seller is now suing for the deficit balance, legal fees and cost of the repo...all of which the OP (or his wife) will most likely be judged liable for in court.

mmadden28

shack wrote: »

Actually...the amount and timing of the payment is negligible and will have little (if any) bearing on the case. According to the OP the car was repossessed due to a clause in the contract that did not allow the vehicle to be moved out of state while there was a lien on it. If it was a "valid" repo (not talking about ethics here, just legality) and it appears to be...the seller is now suing for the deficit balance, legal fees and cost of the repo...all of which the OP (or his wife) will most likely be judged liable for in court.

What if the dealer resold the vehicle? Would they offset that against what was still owed? I personally don't think that if a vehicle is repo'ed that the buyer should still be responsible for the remaining balance. Unless when you say 'deficit balance' you mean the costs to retrieve the car and such.
But then again--if all is as was said--and the dealer financier (bank) was getting paid (as was the original intent of the contract- to offer a car for a certain amount of money), why go through all the expense on their own like that??

One would think they would have to, by some law, at least send some kind of official notice of intent to repo, or notice of breach of contract or something. For all the 'bank' knew the buyer could have been planning on paying off the loan in its entirety.

shack

maximillian wrote:

They repo'ed for no good reason other than to screw you. If you can show the court that the fees they incurred were do to their own greed then you could possibly win back your car. Again, there is probably some legal writ that says that in a contract a party does not have a right to execute termination clauses if the main part of the contract (you paying, they giving you a car) is being fulfilled. Check with a GOOD attorney that knows PA law.

If he breached a section of the contract (moving out of state)...then it is in default and subject to acceleration of the note and repossession by the lender. The courts will more than likely view the countersuit as a frivolous legal move if the language of the contact is clear. There is no "main part" of a contract. A breach of ANY part of a contract is a breach of the ENTIRE contract. The only way the OP could have avoided this was to tell the lender he was moving and get a waiver of that section in writing. Again this is not a discussion of ethics...but what the contract spelled out. The buyer is held to a standard to read and know what it says...and not violate those terms.

I feel sorry for the buyer...but I think his options are limited. It sounds like a couple of attorneys have looked at the situation and feel like there is not anything they can do. PA consumer legal aid may be the only option.

shack

mmadden28 wrote:

What if the dealer resold the vehicle? Would they offset that against what was still owed? I personally don't think that if a vehicle is repo'ed that the buyer should still be responsible for the remaining balance. Unless when you say 'deficit balance' you mean the costs to retrieve the car and such.
But then again--if all is as was said--and the dealer financier (bank) was getting paid (as was the original intent of the contract- to offer a car for a certain amount of money), why go through all the expense on their own like that??

One would think they would have to, by some law, at least send some kind of official notice of intent to repo, or notice of breach of contract or something. For all the 'bank' knew the buyer could have been planning on paying off the loan in its entirety.

personally don't think that if a vehicle is repo'ed that the buyer should still be responsible for the remaining balance.

The law says differently. A deficit balance is the difference between what the vehicle was sold for after the lender repossesses and the remaining balance on the contract. I'm sure the contract clearly spells that out as well as language regarding repossession costs/fees. I mentioned to the OP earlier that this was going to happen and to negotiate something with the dealer ASAP.

BUY HERE - PAY HERE dealers are the bottom feeders of the industry. They are asset/collateral lenders and the condition/location and control of the collateral is everything to them. Some contract defaults like late payments are curable (catch them up after notice). A collateral breach is viewed differently under the law and gives the lender a the right to seize the collateral immediately if they deem it to be in jeopardy (like moving out of the area as defined in the contract). Their contracts are usually legal and enforceable.

Again the OPs only real hope IMO is to see if the PA consumer protection folks will weigh in and help. My guess is their hands will be tied as well.

maximillian

shack wrote: »

If he breached a section of the contract (moving out of state)...then it is in default and subject to acceleration of the note and repossession by the lender. The courts will more than likely view the countersuit as a frivolous legal move if the language of the contact is clear. There is no "main part" of a contract. A breach of ANY part of a contract is a breach of the ENTIRE contract.

You're probably right. However, just because there is a clause in a contract doesn't make it legal. A contract cannot contain illegal clauses for example. IANAL, but I have taken a business law class and there are numerous cases where a contract was deemed unenforceable because a clause in it (although contract signed, thus accepted, by both parties) was deemed not enforceable for some reason. I recall from my class a case where a contract's clause could not be enforced since the main interests of both parties to the contract was being met. So I figured I mention it.

It's a long shot, sure. This is conjunction with finding a judge that doesn't take kindly to people being overly greedy and causing their own problems may be enough to persuade the judge to rule for the defendant. I have seen judges do this often enough to make me think there is some chance that it may work. The counter-suit is more of a deterrent for the dealer. Show them that you are willing to fight and that there is a small chance that they may loose and have to pay more money and they may back down.

Finally, just because a couple of lawyers looked at it doesn't make it so. I have dealt with several lawyers before for different reasons and many of the less-expensive ones are not worth their time.

I agree with other people about contacting the BBB, the PA attorney general, the local news, and other consumer groups. Put pressure on the dealer and he may back down.

fossy

I hope it all works out for ya Caligula -- this whole thing sounds like something out of the twilight zone--- they are going to resell the damn car -- jesus what kind of Judge would even hear this case ??

Can you look into whether these crooks have done this to other people ??

snow

First of all I want to say I feel bad for you, this is an awful thing to have happen. But there are people out there who are known as "gypsys" who will go to a city buy all kinds of items and simply leave usally to another state and this actually is a big problem and im certain thats why the car dealer had this clause in the contract. You and your wife obviously had no intention of doing this but the dealer is taking no chances.

I wish you luck but I am afraid that unless there is some form of usery happening here you will be out of luck. I am absolutley sure the judge is aware of these type of people even though the average joe probally is not.

Good luck to ya.



REGARDS SNOW

shack

maximillian wrote:

You're probably right. However, just because there is a clause in a contract doesn't make it legal. A contract cannot contain illegal clauses for example. IANAL, but I have taken a business law class and there are numerous cases where a contract was deemed unenforceable because a clause in it (although contract signed, thus accepted, by both parties) was deemed not enforceable for some reason. I recall from my class a case where a contract's clause could not be enforced since the main interests of both parties to the contract was being met. So I figured I mention it.

It's a long shot, sure. This is conjunction with finding a judge that doesn't take kindly to people being overly greedy and causing their own problems may be enough to persuade the judge to rule for the defendant. I have seen judges do this often enough to make me think there is some chance that it may work. The counter-suit is more of a deterrent for the dealer. Show them that you are willing to fight and that there is a small chance that they may loose and have to pay more money and they may back down.

Finally, just because a couple of lawyers looked at it doesn't make it so. I have dealt with several lawyers before for different reasons and many of the less-expensive ones are not worth their time.

I agree with other people about contacting the BBB, the PA attorney general, the local news, and other consumer groups. Put pressure on the dealer and he may back down.

I'm sure your business law class had a lot of good information.

I would be willing to bet this particular dealer/lender is operating within the bounds of the law. It is what they do. They typically know the law and know exactly what they can put in the contracts. I would be willing to bet they have gone to court before on this same issue...and won. This will never go to a jury. Fighting this will only cost the buyer a lot more money unless he can find someone to take it as a pro-bono case...again unlikely.

wizzy

Just have a friend call the owner up from a Pay Phone. Have the friend explain the situation nicely. Tell the owner that (you) have no idea he is calling you, this is all being taken care of by friends and you have no knowledge of it.

Then your friend informs the dealer that they will be expecting him to call you and apologize and have the car on a tow truck heading to Florida tomorrow, or expect bad things to start happening.

If it doesn't happen the next day, then the day after that get a sniper rifle and blow out the windshield and a couple tires off the guys car. Then have your friend call again from a different pay phone. Tell him next time it will be his wife or child's knees.

He will get the message soon. If he thinks you will go through lawyers and courts he will laugh in your face. If he doesn't call your bluff and believes you are going after his wife and children, his attitude will begin to change.

avelanchefan

wizzy wrote: »

Just have a friend call the owner up from a Pay Phone. Have the friend explain the situation nicely. Tell the owner that (you) have no idea he is calling you, this is all being taken care of by friends and you have no knowledge of it.

Then your friend informs the dealer that they will be expecting him to call you and apologize and have the car on a tow truck heading to Florida tomorrow, or expect bad things to start happening.

If it doesn't happen the next day, then the day after that get a sniper rifle and blow out the windshield and a couple tires off the guys car. Then have your friend call again from a different pay phone. Tell him next time it will be his wife or child's knees.

He will get the message soon. If he thinks you will go through lawyers and courts he will laugh in your face. If he doesn't call your bluff and believes you are going after his wife and children, his attitude will begin to change.

WOW.....I dont know whether to laugh or be absolutely scared.

heiney9

Quite disturbed there Wizzy :eek:

shack

avelanchefan wrote:

WOW.....I dont know whether to laugh or be absolutely scared.

Since I would not have seen that without your quote...I know my addition to the IL quite some time ago was absolutely the right thing to do.

That post should be reported to the moderators!

Ricardo

I've heard that's what they do in the mountains of N.C. I'm pretty sure there's a name for them too.