DVD Review: GRAN TORINO (Warner Bros./Village Roadshow)
Mike LoManaco
Posts: 974
Studio Name: Warner Bros./Village Roadshow Pictures
MPAA Rating: R
Disc Information: Widescreen 16X9
Tested Audio Track: English Dolby Digital 5.1
Director: Clint Eastwood
Starring Cast: Clint Eastwood
SYNOPSIS:
I had been interested in seeing this ever since the trailers hit the screens, but like many, I missed Eastwood's Gran Torino theatrically. Perhaps not since his Mystic River did one of Eastwood's productions seem so intriguing; and while River was one of his more outstanding films, he's had quite a few duds, seemingly culminating with Absolute Power. The trailers made Torino look like a typical gang-related opus, a la Training Day but the few cuts of Eastwood talking **** to the Asian punks that terrorize his neighbors in those trailers brought back memories and visions of good ol' Dirty Harry -- he's cocking a rather large shotgun and seething through his teeth "Get off my lawn..."; indeed, Eastwood does kick **** in this.
The film had absolutely great potential; in fact, I would go as far to say that it was one of the most stirring dramas I have seen in the past good six months or so -- that was, up until the final act. I will not give this one away people, don't worry, but the end was a tragic disappointment in my opinion. It's probably the one element that's stopping this from being a purchase for me. Torino picks up after Eastwood's character's wife's death; he plays a Korean War vet now living in a changing suburb of Detroit who's absolutely disgusted with the world he lives in. Part of the allure of this film -- as shady and off-putting as it sounds -- is the racist rhetoric Eastwood throws in his dialogue delivery...most of it is just so disgustingly hilarious you tend to look past the absolute rudeness of it all. His character walks around spewing hateful comments at others, his yellow lab Daisy and himself, and his kids and grandkids have grown to despise him. At the mother's funeral, and the gathering in Eastwood's house after, he groans and mutters under his breath at the disrespect his sons and grandkids are showing him. The most hysterical portion of this social psychosis of Eastwood's character comes in the form of regular visits to his barber -- the two of them toss racial slurs back and forth at each other to the point you don't even know if they're being serious or not. The barber is a "dumb Italian guinea" while Eastwood's character is a "dumb white Pollock"...the scenes are almost side-splitting, and I'm not quite sure if that's exactly what Eastwood was going for.
Meanwhile, an Asian family has moved right next door to him, and immediately, Eastwood's character's racial tensions from his service in Korea come raging to the surface once again. His racial slurs from under his breath eventually lead to him actually saying these things right to their faces -- the terms "****," "Zipperhead" and a smattering of other epitaphs are said dozens of times in the film. The younger boy of the family is harassed by his older cousin's Asian gang, who spend their time cruising around in a piece of **** Civic sedan with mismatched paint, body work and a rear wing that looks like it could pick up UFO transmissions (you know these rice burners from sixty miles away; they're a disease on our roads), blasting bass-heavy rap music and pretending to be African American or Mexican. After the boy from next door is verbally attacked by a passing Mexican gang on the street, the cousin's gang gets involved and wants to recruit the boy into the gang. His first initiation task? Try and steal Eastwood's Gran Torino Sport out of his garage.
When Eastwood catches the boy in progress of breaking into his Torino, he almost blows his head off with a rifle -- but his character undergoes a systematic change of sorts after he witnesses the gang members attempting to beat the boy for failing these initiation rituals, which spills onto his own front yard. The pissed-off Eastwood points a loaded shotgun barrel at the punks and even through gang retaliation threats, chases them off. From here, the Asian family next door sees Eastwood's character as a hero of sorts, for saving the kid from the dangers of his cousin's gang life. Eastwood rejects the showering of gifts and prayers from the family, but eventually gets to know them and opens up to a culture he once hated with a personal passion. All through this, he still spits racial slurs at the family members, yet gets close with the boy -- and he eventually makes it his business to try and direct this young man to a better life, making him see the route of his cousin's gang isn't the one he should be following.
In between, a priest calls upon Eastwood's character daily to try and get him to come to confession per his wife's request before she died; the priest knows there's a boiling anger inside Eastwood's character, one that is going to be aimed squarely at the gang he has been having conflicts with after they savagely beat and burn the boy and rape his sister. Eastwood ends up helping the kid out by getting him a construction job, but all that takes a back seat after the gang catches up with the kid and "schools" him for refusing to go the way of gang life. Prior to that, Eastwood's character saves his sister when she and her wigger boyfriend are surrounded and threatened by a group of black men who come extremely close to hurting or possibly killing both of them; one of the most entertaining moments of Torino comes when Eastwood pulls up in his pickup truck and confronts these men who are harassing the white kid and the Asian girl from next door. His delivery towards these street thugs and cool, collected demeanor even in the face of danger as he calmly pulls out a pistol and counter-threatens them was inspiring, indeed. Dirty Harry's back!
But as I stated, the final confrontation sequence between Eastwood and the Asian gang members was disappointing in my opinion; I know many will disagree, but for all the suspense and absolutely clever, exciting dialogue this film had, the climax left me cold and a bit let down. There was a sacrifice here -- and I understand what Eastwood was trying to say in his direction -- but I would have cared for it more if it ended on a positive note.
VIDEO QUALITY:
The approximately 2.35:1 widescreen transfer looked average upconverted on my Panasonic DMP-BD10A; the beginning of the film exhibited a monotone, olive-y/beige petina which didn't hold up well under close scrutiny. There were aliasing and shimmering issues early on, but as the transfer progressed, this cleared up a bit and colors, fleshtones and black levels all reached acceptable levels. Not the worst DVD I have viewed; that may be reserved (pun intended) for Warner's No Reservations DVD, which looked absolutely horrid with ringing, digital noise and macroblocking galore -- the same thing with their American President initial DVD release.
AUDIO QUALITY:
The typical Warner Dolby Digital 5.1 track was adequate; dialogue was difficult to make out until the volume was raised enough, but when the booming hip-hop soundtrack from the Honda Civic onscreen came blaring on, the LFE channel filled in nicely. The gun shootout sequences were nice and punchy, but I didn't detect much surround information.
SUMMARY:
A rather exciting, well-paced and acted film from Eastwood that remained intriguing up until the last act; this one is definitely worth a rental.
RECOMMENDATIONS:
Many are purchasing this film, but I think Gran Torino is more effective remaining a rental; if you really enjoyed it and can imagine multiple viewings, by all means put it on your shelf -- and if you thought the Blu-ray version was good, buy that one. To me, that last scene crushed the positivity of all that came before it.
Thanks for reading, friends, as always...and fire away with any commentary or questions!
Post edited by Mike LoManaco on
Comments
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the climaz was clever, if he went the other route it would never have ended, thus nothing would have been resolved ,thus no point to the movie?
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the mung gangsters wouldnt have stopped commin at them
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the climaz was clever, if he went the other route it would never have ended, thus nothing would have been resolved ,thus no point to the movie?
I totally disagree -- Eastwood could have done something else with this narrative instead of the direction it went in...
He didn't have to sacrifice himself, IMO; I didn't care for the whole "takes out his lighter and pretends to be going for a gun" thing -- I would have liked a full-blown shootout in which he indeed brought an arsenal to the gang's headquarters and wiped the floor with them. That's just my take. The ending reminded me too much of the conclusion of Falling Down. -
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the mung gangsters wouldnt have stopped commin at them
Oh, you mean when their beating of the cousin spills onto his lawn and he points the gun at them? -
The ending was a big letdown. When Clint said "that boy and his sister don't have a chance as long as that gang is around", I thought (was hoping) he was going to round up a group of his old war buddies and lure the gang into an ambush. I was looking forward to the big showdown, but it seems that Clint wanted to avoid that cliche, however satisfying it would have been.
Clint's "martyrdom" bit was weird and totally unbelievable. Most likely, none of the neighbors who witnessed the shooting (from a distance, at night) would have testified against the gang members in open court. Another thing: Why would the gang members stick around when the cops started coming after the murder? Who's going to stick around with a murder weapon in their hands and wait for the cops to arrest them? Was there no rear exit in that building?
The gang members had a good chance of getting off. Just because someone gets shot in your front yard doesn't mean you did it. You might not have even been home at the time.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »The ending was a big letdown.
Thank you, Knight; finally someone sees it the way I did!
I thought (was hoping) Clint was going to round up a group of his old war buddies and lure the gang into an ambush. I was looking forward to the big showdown, but it seems that Clint wanted to avoid that cliche, however satisfying it would have been.
I thought what was going to happen was he was going to take out the gang single-handedly, because his character was being setup as a total bad-****; the end was a sad sequence and disappointing.
From what I read on other discussion sites regarding the film though, was that something may have been hinted at in terms of his character's health -- and perhaps he knew he was dying, so he figured sacrificing himself to save this kid who he had racial reservations about was a good way to "go out" so to speak; still, that end moment reminded me very much of what Michael Douglas does at the end of Falling Down... -
I, and I think a lot of viewers, would have had some difficulty accepting the premise of an old man, however well armed, single handedly taking out an armed gang unless he caught them one-by-one. Besides, how long would the one-by-one tactic have taken?
Now, the premise of a group of Korean war vets "taking back" their neighborhood by planning a strike with military precision would have been highly entertaining and very compelling drama. They might have even had a few retired buddies from the police force who would have liked to join the "fun".Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »I, and I think a lot of viewers, would have had some difficulty accepting the premise of an old man, however well armed, single handedly taking out an armed gang unless he caught them one-by-one. Besides, how long would the one-by-one tactic have taken?
I see what you're saying here; I just thought there would have been a different tactic with his character taking these assclowns out -- maybe not all at the same time, but some kind of scenario...Now, the premise of a group of Korean war vets "taking back" their neighborhood by planning a strike with military precision would have been highly entertaining and very compelling drama. They might have even had a few retired buddies from the police force who would have liked to join the "fun".
Well, I don't know about THIS; a bunch of AARP members arming themselves to face a Mung gang? Reminds me of what those redneck a-holes thought they were going to do to Michael Myers in Halloween 4...:rolleyes: -
I agree that a direct confrontation wouldn't have been a good idea. Hence:DarqueKnight wrote: »I thought (was hoping) he was going to round up a group of his old war buddies and lure the gang into an ambush.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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Personally, I feel Clint ended the film in a totally appropriate way. Remember his character had rejected god, was a racist, and had a lifetime of self righteous bad behaviour behind him.
The character was also terminally ill.
The film was about how this man who had got his life so wrong came to find a new perspective. After realising how wrongly he'd led his life, he worked out a way to both save his new friends and redeem himself.
It was an epic tragedy with a strong message.
Had the film ended with a predictable shoot 'em up where Clint kicked everybody's ****, then the true meaning of the film would have been lost.
Yes, I did feel a bit let down with the anti-climatic ending, but watching the lengthy scene of the boy drive the Gran Tarino at the end of the movie provided a great context to think about what just happened and why... -
I too was dissatisfied by the ending, mostly because it seemed implausible.
The movie made the point earlier that people don't talk to the cops, yet would have us believe that's exactly what happened regarding the killing of Eastwood's character. -
I felt bad laughing uncontrollably throughout most of the movie....I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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I too was dissatisfied by the ending, mostly because it seemed implausible.
The movie made the point earlier that people don't talk to the cops, yet would have us believe that's exactly what happened regarding the killing of Eastwood's character.
I saw it for the 2nd time over the weekend, and figured the cops had enough material eveidence with all the guns and bullets sprayed all over the place to put the punks away for awhile. I thought the ending rocked, because everyone was expecting the opposite. If you follow Eastwood's character all the way through the movie and what he learned and experienced, the ending made much more sense then him just going bezerk.
As far as the punks escaping at the end of the movie, not completely unbelievebale they were caught right away. Remember, the cops had the place staked out earlier that day. If they weren't arrested on the spot, then probably after a relatively short time. The gang didn't seem to be the smartest group of people out there....
While it did have some minor flaws, IMO an outstanding movie, especially compared to the majority of movies - pointless, low quality, profit-driven garbage - Hollywood puts out these days. -
concealer404 wrote: »I felt bad laughing uncontrollably throughout most of the movie....
Because of Eastwood's approach to the different racial sects and what he said about them under his breath? Or when he visited the barber and they attacked each other with racial slurs like most people give a standard greeting? I cracked up at these too. As I said in the review, I wasn't laughing in agreement with the statements, just at how they were being delivered, in such a non-chalant way... -
I saw it for the 2nd time over the weekend, and figured the cops had enough material eveidence with all the guns and bullets sprayed all over the place to put the punks away for awhile. I thought the ending rocked, because everyone was expecting the opposite. If you follow Eastwood's character all the way through the movie and what he learned and experienced, the ending made much more sense then him just going bezerk.
As far as the punks escaping at the end of the movie, not completely unbelievebale they were caught right away. Remember, the cops had the place staked out earlier that day. If they weren't arrested on the spot, then probably after a relatively short time. The gang didn't seem to be the smartest group of people out there....
While it did have some minor flaws, IMO an outstanding movie, especially compared to the majority of movies - pointless, low quality, profit-driven garbage - Hollywood puts out these days.
I understand what you're saying about following along and the ending making sense in that regard, but I still believe it was a disappointing climax. Sure, an all-out "ambush" on the gang would have been generically forseen and obvious, but we were all kind of looking forward to that when we see Eastwood's anger boil towards the gang at the end; it was like here's this big ramp up to a revenge plot structure, and he ends up going the way of Michael Douglas in Falling Down...that is, pretending to pull out a weapon as an almost "death wish" that ends up getting him sprayed. I didn't care for it. -
I would have probably enjoyed that ending on some level also, but that ending has been done sooooo many times in Clint Eastwood movies, including the Man w/ no name westerns and Dirty Harry series. This is one reason I thought the ending he chose was great, that he departed from what we have all seen already in the past 30 years and what we were expecting. It probably wouldn't surprise you I also thought the last episode of the Sopranos was outstanding. Just my .02....
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It probably wouldn't surprise you I also thought the last episode of the Sopranos was outstanding. Just my .02....
UGHHHHHH!!!! I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU!!!
Just kidding; but yes, I think you have to be like the only one in the country who thought the conclusion of the Sopranos was good. Most of us were mega-disappointed -- but I suppose I can respect the fact that you cared for the direction of not doing a big "hit on Tony" thing because that's what everyone would have expected. Still, I think David Chase could have done something better than have the family meet at a coffee shop with Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" playing... -
Yes the point was made that the people don't talk to the cops earlier in the movie.
However, for the finale, the killing was staged by Clint's character to be out in the street in front of many witnesses - the whole street in fact. Thereby creating a sense of safety in numbers that allowed the people to talk to the cops about what they'd seen. -
Mike LoManaco wrote: »UGHHHHHH!!!! I HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR YOU!!!
Just kidding; but yes, I think you have to be like the only one in the country who thought the conclusion of the Sopranos was good. Most of us were mega-disappointed -- but I suppose I can respect the fact that you cared for the direction of not doing a big "hit on Tony" thing because that's what everyone would have expected. Still, I think David Chase could have done something better than have the family meet at a coffee shop with Journey's "Don't Stop Believin'" playing...
I think David Chase was making a statement about series finales also, which was the Sopranos was an outstanding series and the last episode / conclusion really didn't matter; ie go back and enjoy the series as a whole.
I think the Journey music and mundane setting in the cooffee shop was just to bug people...just my thoughts. -
I wholeheartedly agree that season finale of the Sopranos was fantastic. While I don't necessarily think Chase was intending to annoy people, I do believe that he was trying to buck many of the conventions in television. In numerous interviews, he's claimed this as a primary goal throughout the series.
For example... he said that the whole Big **** affair could have been done in a more traditional way (as seen countless times in so many other gangster films), but decided to let everything unravel in a dream sequence.I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Finally got around to seeing this movie this weekend. I thought it was fantastic, including the ending. I am really shocked that people could have liked the movie but still wanted it to end with Clint becoming some unbelievable superhero at the end and taking out an entire gang. The movie was about a real-life person, a realistic badass, not another stupid goddamn cartoon like most movie "badasses" are these days. Don't we have enough Jason Bournes and James Bonds who can jump off 9-story buildings and keep running and can duck bullets? There is NOTHING Clint could have done, in a real-world scenario, to get rid of that gang except for what he did. And while it's far-fetched that the entire gang would have been caught for what they did, it's far more realistic than an 80-year old Clint going commando and taking out a well-armed gang, with his war buddies or not.
Not to say I wasn't saddened or "disappointed" in the ending from an emotional standpoint; I wanted the bloody revenge because I wanted to see those punks get killed, but that's why movies like this exist, to remind us that the gut instinctual reaction isn't always feasible.
Also, for those who think it wasn't true to Clint's character.... did we watch the same movie? They spent the entire movie showing how he warmed to those kids, and became a father figure to them, both because they needed one and also to make up for his own shortcomings as a father (as he admitted to the priest). He knew he was dying, his wife was dead, his kids didn't need him; while extreme, it seemed a perfect way for him to go out.
Finally, while I disagree with kevhed's reasoning, I loved the Sopranos ending.If you will it, dude, it is no dream. -
bobman1235 wrote: »Finally got around to seeing this movie this weekend. I thought it was fantastic, including the ending. I am really shocked that people could have liked the movie but still wanted it to end with Clint becoming some unbelievable superhero at the end and taking out an entire gang. The movie was about a real-life person, a realistic badass, not another stupid goddamn cartoon like most movie "badasses" are these days. Don't we have enough Jason Bournes and James Bonds who can jump off 9-story buildings and keep running and can duck bullets? There is NOTHING Clint could have done, in a real-world scenario, to get rid of that gang except for what he did. And while it's far-fetched that the entire gang would have been caught for what they did, it's far more realistic than an 80-year old Clint going commando and taking out a well-armed gang, with his war buddies or not.
We weren't really saying that Clint should have turned into some Jason Bourne/James Bond type character and took them out with such bravado of that magnitude...:rolleyes:Not to say I wasn't saddened or "disappointed" in the ending from an emotional standpoint; I wanted the bloody revenge because I wanted to see those punks get killed, but that's why movies like this exist, to remind us that the gut instinctual reaction isn't always feasible.
It still was a bit disappointing in that tear-jerking kind of way you hint at here; hard to put words to it, but it simply could have been better.Also, for those who think it wasn't true to Clint's character.... did we watch the same movie? They spent the entire movie showing how he warmed to those kids, and became a father figure to them, both because they needed one and also to make up for his own shortcomings as a father (as he admitted to the priest). He knew he was dying, his wife was dead, his kids didn't need him; while extreme, it seemed a perfect way for him to go out.
Fair enough. But as indicated in earlier replies, some (me included) didn't recall at first thought the fact that his character was terminally ill; it actually came back to me after the fact.Finally, while I disagree with kevhed's reasoning, I loved the Sopranos ending.
I don't think Chase should have fell into the trap everyone was looking for -- a big hit on Tony -- but the ending just outright sucked. -
Mike LoManaco wrote: »It still was a bit disappointing in that tear-jerking kind of way you hint at here; hard to put words to it, but it simply could have been better.
Not picking on you here, just using your quote as an example. The reality is Clint has provided excellent hero worship over the years, but at 78 years old he has stated that this is his last movie to act in. This is a fitting ending for a real man of steel. Perhaps we don't like the ending because he made an end of life decision. He decided to go out in life as a "die hard" vs
suffering to the bitter end. Not a lovely thought is it
, but a fitting end nonetheless :cool: -
Mike LoManaco wrote: »Because of Eastwood's approach to the different racial sects and what he said about them under his breath? Or when he visited the barber and they attacked each other with racial slurs like most people give a standard greeting? I cracked up at these too. As I said in the review, I wasn't laughing in agreement with the statements, just at how they were being delivered, in such a non-chalant way...
The whole thing was just strange to me. The barber was HILARIOUS, too.
I just found it wierd that in a day and age where racial slurs are largely bad, that someone like Clint would throw so many of them out there. It was more being edgy for the sake of being edgy, and really tanked the movie for me.
We understood the fact that he was in the war. I could see a "****" here or there. But to slap the viewer in the face time and time again whenever a new race hit the screen was just un-needed, and felt completely unnatural both being delivered by Clint, and the delivery itself.
I couldn't take the movie seriously. It just seemed like a dark comedy based loosely on American History X, which i feel did a far better job conveying the racial tension, with MUCH LESS usage of the slurs.
It would have been no worse of a movie if the race aspect had been COMPLETELY removed. Just none of it felt natural or plausible.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
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I saw the movie. Loved it. Great video quality. The story was awesome. It showed an old man bitter at the world turn around and become more accepting.
The racial slurs were actually quite humerous. My girlfriend and I about died laughing everytime he said something like zipperhead. I'm Vietnamese and actually wasn't offended at all at the slurs. It's just a movie, and it conveyed his true belief, which turned into a huge joke towards the end.Main Surround -
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I too just recently saw the movie and loved it including the ending.
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Mike LoManaco wrote: »It still was a bit disappointing in that tear-jerking kind of way you hint at here; hard to put words to it, but it simply could have been better.
Not picking on you here, just using your quote as an example. The reality is Clint has provided excellent hero worship over the years, but at 78 years old he has stated that this is his last movie to act in. This is a fitting ending for a real man of steel. Perhaps we don't like the ending because he made an end of life decision. He decided to go out in life as a "die hard" vs
suffering to the bitter end. Not a lovely thought is it, but a fitting end nonetheless :cool:
Fair enough; I suppose everyone has different ideas and likes/dislikes when it comes to cinema. I am in the minority on Grand Torino's ending, though, for sure. -
concealer404 wrote: »The whole thing was just strange to me. The barber was HILARIOUS, too.
Sure, I can understand where his usage of the racial slurs would appear "strange" as he just uses them every day like nothing's wrong at all with them; weird. The barber sequences WERE funny though, agreed.I just found it wierd that in a day and age where racial slurs are largely bad, that someone like Clint would throw so many of them out there. It was more being edgy for the sake of being edgy, and really tanked the movie for me.
Interesting perspective and point of view.We understood the fact that he was in the war. I could see a "****" here or there. But to slap the viewer in the face time and time again whenever a new race hit the screen was just un-needed, and felt completely unnatural both being delivered by Clint, and the delivery itself.
Indeed, but the conversation exchange with the "homies" that are getting ready to rape the girl from next door and her "wigger" boyfriend and Eastwood's charater was particularly moving -- you can just sense where he has simply had enough of all these "hoods" getting away with what they get away with in these neighborhoods; I feel at least SOME of his exchanges and under-breath ramblings were appropriate for a given MOMENT, that's all.I couldn't take the movie seriously. It just seemed like a dark comedy based loosely on American History X, which i feel did a far better job conveying the racial tension, with MUCH LESS usage of the slurs.
Oh, well, while an EXCELLENT film, American History X was a completely different approach to this subject matter -- it took itself, as you were trying to say, much more seriously than Gran Torino but they're really still two totally different approaches to this. Clint created an atmosphere with Torino that's difficult to describe; it bordered on comical yet dipped into danger and hostility at times -- Tony Kaye's American History X didn't really do any of that.It would have been no worse of a movie if the race aspect had been COMPLETELY removed. Just none of it felt natural or plausible.
Yeah, there's a pace about the film that's unsettling and suggests inplausability, I know what you mean -- but some of it was plausable to me at least.
At any rate, I'm not sure GRAN TORINO was so great that it warranted a place on my collection shelf; I haven't seen it on Blu-ray, but it's expensive, and I am not sure how many repeat viewings it would get. -
I saw the movie. Loved it. Great video quality. The story was awesome. It showed an old man bitter at the world turn around and become more accepting.
Did you view the STANDARD DVD, as reviewed here, or the Blu-ray?The racial slurs were actually quite humerous. My girlfriend and I about died laughing everytime he said something like zipperhead. I'm Vietnamese and actually wasn't offended at all at the slurs. It's just a movie, and it conveyed his true belief, which turned into a huge joke towards the end.
Hmmm. Interesting. I thought it got a bit out of hand after awhile (the slurs and comments) but it's curious that being Vietnamese you didn't find it a tad bothersome. By what, though, do you mean you thought his belief turned into a huge joke at the end?
