Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit

hockeyboy

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html


What the heck is wrong with the government?

hearingimpared

Hockeyboy your link is not active.

hearingimpared

Just read the article. How much more personal interference can we tolerate from our government?

thuffman03

Here is the story

Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit
Thursday, May 28, 2009


Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a Bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the Bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a Bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple Bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of Bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.

If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court

WilliamM2

It's California, sounds normal for them.

treitz3

There must be more to the story than this.

BlueFox

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

First, since it is from Fox News we know that details have been ommitted from the story in order to fit Fox's view, and overall general purpose of creating controversy from non-issues.

Second, we need to know exactly how many few friends there are at the house.

treitz3

BlueFox wrote: »

Second, we need to know exactly how many few friends there are at the house.

Exactly. 10-12 folks may be acceptable to most people but I do see an issue with 100-150 people [or more] in a small neighborhood.

I'd like to know the facts first. All of them.

venomclan

CA is desperate for money, plain and simple. And they pick the easiest target they can find. If this was another faith involved, they would not touch it for fear of being sued.

bobman1235

Oh boy. How many would YOU allow, BlueFox?

I'm sure there's more to the story - someone had to have called the police on these people for some reason, one would assume - but even then, the idea of needing a costly permit for something like that is ridiculous.

wizzy

Exactly ... what if you lived in a small neighborhood and once or twice a week the neighbor three doors down had 30 people over, and 30 cars clogging the parking spaces on the street.

That doesn't sound bad. Now imagine that this is "ok" and then the neighbor across the street and one house down does it on another day. Then the guy three houses away on the other side ....... and then someone else. Regularly, couple times a week.

And it wasn't just friends and family over. One running a business, one holding bible study, one selling Amway products, one selling admission to their big pool, and so on

It would get out of hand.

Or if the story read exactly the same in all respects, except it was a lady selling MaryKay products, would you react the same? How would you feel if it was your neighbor, and once a week your little suburban quiet side street turned into a car zoo?

Jstas

Ahhh...makes me think of the commercials where the Supreme Governator and his wife Skeletor essentially beg you to come and live in The Peoples' Socialist Republic of California so they can increase population which leads to increased tax revenue. Why do that when you can just "tax" religious organizations of any kind through levying fees and fines on them for gathering without a permit?

cnh

To be entirely fair Fox should also search out examples of people gathering for a Torah study group and in order to study the Quran, etc. Shouldn't we TAX everyone...not just Christians in order to be fair and balanced? Shouldn't single out Christians for taxation....I'm sure there's is both more and less to this story..and TV news on both sides FILTER news. It's best to get your news from 'multiple' sources and decide for yourself.

cnh

brettw22

If it's frequent, and the neighborhood turns into a giant parking lot, I can see it being an issue.

It could go both ways.......but if Bible study is being done by a preacher, and it can be frequent and involve large groups of people......don't they have big buildings with steeples on them they can use?

The particulars are missing, so it's all just a guess anyways........

wizzy

Jstas wrote: »

Why do that when you can just "tax" religious organizations of any kind through levying fees and fines on them for gathering without a permit?

What makes you think they wouldn't be asking for permits for anyone holding a regular public gathering in a residential neighborhood?

Chances are it would be more expensive, and that these people are actually getting a break as a religious org

treitz3

Why do I have a feeling this is going to be a long thread?

bobman1235

If the problem is that they are cluttering the neighborhood and inconveniencing neighbors, how will giving 10,000 dollars to the government solve that? If that is indeed the issue, the only "governing" that should be done is getting approval from neighbors to have such a large inconvenience. The government extorting money from these people does nothing to solve the presenting problem. If these guys did have 10 grand, and paid it, would ANY of the issues brought up in this thread be solved?

dpowell

Welcome to the Polk Audio Court of Appeals where constitutional matters are decided by audiophiles. Afterall, they have the most discerning ears to hear every detail of the material being presented.

treitz3

bobman1235 wrote: »

If the problem is that they are cluttering the neighborhood and inconveniencing neighbors, how will giving 10,000 dollars to the government solve that? If that is indeed the issue, the only "governing" that should be done is getting approval from neighbors to have such a large inconvenience. The government extorting money from these people does nothing to solve the presenting problem. If these guys did have 10 grand, and paid it, would ANY of the issues brought up in this thread be solved?

No...

disneyjoe7

treitz3 wrote: »

There must be more to the story than this.

I agree, I know myself due to parking issues, and such my HOA gets really hot. I sure if they did the county would have some rules also, to stop that. Not that I have an issue with it, but there's a time and a place for everything.

unc2701

Google is your friend, people.

It was a parking issue, it was happening weekly and the neighbors complained. The county went with the most obvious ordinance, it has nothing to do with religion.

And to answer bobman's question, they probably would NOT get the permit if they applied for it without addressing the parking situation.

bobman1235

unc2701 wrote: »

And to answer bobman's question, they probably would NOT get the permit if they applied for it without addressing the parking situation.

That's fine, there's still no reason such a permit should be 10,000 dollars. It's all about money. If people are complaining about parking, PARKING should be the issue that is dealt with. If people are complaining about noise, noise is the issue that should be dealt with. Having a nonsense ordinance and claiming it's well beyond a normal person's means to comply is **** in every sense of the word.

unc2701

Meh. The bottom line is that they were pissing off their neighbors, the county was asked to do what they could & they did. Usually when you ask the county for something you get a "sorry, tough ****", so I'd say this is better than usual.

Like you say, they need to work out the PARKING with the neighbors and the neighbors needed to go have a civil talk with them before calling it in... but now that Fox is running this it's going to be about how Christians are being outlawed in California :rolleyes:

steveinaz

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It's California, sounds normal for them.

Exactly. Poetic justice, dontja think? Dumbasses. They want to be controlled, they're being controlled. Ain't socialism wonderful?

There was a guy from Kali on one of the gun forums I frequent, whining for help from other states' members. He got no love. You all choose to vote for these a-holes, you live with it. You won't rally for your cause, because, "well, that's just too much work and someone should do it for me."

I LOVE it. Kalifornians, you made your own bed, now sleep in it.

treitz3

unc2701 wrote: »

Google is your friend, people. It was a parking issue

Ah, so truth be told the story was slanted a little more than slightly. :rolleyes:

I thought so.

steveinaz

Here's the scarey thing; Kalifornians are beginning to realize just how **** up Kali is, (crazy cost of living, socialism, etc) and they are moving to places like Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, Oregon, and effing those states up too with their dumbass politics. It's like a virus. Kalirado is already lost....

disneyjoe7

hockeyboy wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html


What the heck is wrong with the government?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html



Not sure why your link didn't work, I tested ok and post it again. Hope it works ok.

bobman1235

unc2701 wrote: »

Meh. The bottom line is that they were pissing off their neighbors, the county was asked to do what they could & they did. Usually when you ask the county for something you get a "sorry, tough ****", so I'd say this is better than usual.

Like you say, they need to work out the PARKING with the neighbors and the neighbors needed to go have a civil talk with them before calling it in... but now that Fox is running this it's going to be about how Christians are being outlawed in California :rolleyes:

The ends don't justify the means to me. I feel for the neighbors, but I don't like using what amounts to government extortion to solve it.

It's like when there are budget problems so cops hand out more tickets. Yeah, you helped your budget problem, but all you're doing is **** over your citizens for it.

66chevyIISS

It's probably actually a swingers party...

megasat16

Yikes! Our Sales Tax has been increased to 9.25% from 7.75% a couple of months ago and we are in Budget shortfall widen enough to bankrupte the whole state for one whole quarter! Speaking of farted up, it's obviously more than F'd up and Lost.

I am sure there are plenty of good guys here in Cali.........But the boat Californians in is sinking very fast.....

obieone

steveinaz wrote: »

Exactly. Poetic justice, dontja think? Dumbasses. They want to be controlled, they're being controlled. Ain't socialism wonderful?

There was a guy from Kali on one of the gun forums I frequent, whining for help from other states' members. He got no love. You all choose to vote for these a-holes, you live with it. You won't rally for your cause, because, "well, that's just too much work and someone should do it for me."

I LOVE it. Kalifornians, you made your own bed, now sleep in it.

+1 GAZILLION!!! Exactly how I feel!!!:mad: