how many watts of..

Erik Tracy

Gosh - I hope this doesn't turn into another "my amp is better than yours (and Carvers suck....)"

markmarc

cnh:
Fair point, but when I see these 200-400wpc "must have" I have to call BS. I will absolutely agree with Bryston and Parasound, which I have experienced first hand (Adcom vintage only, but no in-home experience with Cambridge or Rotel).

As far as tubes go, it's usually a max of triple the wpc versus typical ss gear. Much of that is due to the quality of parts used and the heavy duty transformer/power supply. Which feeds right back to my original point of quality over quantity.

Kex

markmarc wrote: »

Be careful about falling into the wpc trap. It's all about quality power, not quantity. My 38wpc int. tube amp offers far more quality power and can drive difficult speakers better than many of the big names mentioned here.

Right now I have a well-known quality Canadian company's 40wpc int. amp in for review, next to it is a 150wpc class d amp. The 40wpc is pummeling the 150wpc with a fairly difficult set of speakers. The sound has more weight, dynamics and thrust during difficult passages.

I agree 100%!

Emotiva products may be "cheap", and there are several Polkies reporting excellent results, but those $ could also buy real watts, even if it's not 200w/ch, not just "mine are bigger than yours" watts. It really depends on what you are expecting to achieve IMO.

Most people (other than our very own Georgia Ben, really) don't play louder than 85dBA. After that, it's all about room size, dynamics and headroom. There are a few examples, in various threads, of how many w/ch you actually need to achieve those levels in a normal room, with efficient speakers (and all Polk Audio speakers I know of, are efficient), and it's not nearly as high as you might think. Don't expect miracles from specifications alone IMO! They will never be the final guage of quality IMO.

curved

Kex wrote: »

I agree 100%!

Most people (other than our very own Georgia Ben, really) don't play louder than 85dBA.

Don't forget about Lasareath

Obviously anyone in their right mind would take a quality 40wpc tube amp over a 80wpc SS AVR.......I hope. But ultimately, it's the amps sound characteristics that should be considered when deciding what amp to go with.

cfrizz

I would say that anyone in their right mind would NOT be thinking about tubes since that is not what is being heavily marketed now-a-days. Tubes are another niche market that has few customers, just like SACD.

Most beginners have never heard of tubes, nor would they consider them since they cost a premium over most SS gear & the perception is that you are getting far less for your money. (Regardless of how good people think they might sound.)

How many of you tube users are using your gear for HT?

This is where the marketing & focus is right now like it or not, and until you have heard what all those watts can do, you have NO idea what you are NOT hearing. But it's going to cost more money, but well worth it.

But then that is what's so great about buying used. Your dollar goes alot further.

curved wrote: »

Don't forget about Lasareath

Obviously anyone in their right mind would take a quality 40wpc tube amp over a 80wpc SS AVR.......I hope. But ultimately, it's the amps sound characteristics that should be considered when deciding what amp to go with.

Hillbilly61

cfrizz wrote: »

I would say that anyone in their right mind would NOT be thinking about tubes since that is not what is being heavily marketed now-a-days. Tubes are another niche market that has few customers, just like SACD.

Would you care to elaborate further concerning the basis behind this stated opinion?

tonyb

I think what Cathy is trying to get out is that most people couldn't tell you what the heck a tube is.Probably only associated tubes with their old TV's.Of coarse in our world,thats not the case.But then again,compared to the mass market of AVR's,our world is pretty much a niche market.Same could be said for seperates,ss/tubes,most don't know what the hell they are,used for,or why,when a 400 dollar Sony receiver covers all bases,for the average joe.I lay that opinion down on the realization that most don't give two squats about sound quality.Bose wave radio is where it's at for them.That is untill they go by a friends house,hear a decent system,then say,my that sounds nice,but are turned off by the costs involved,the room it takes up,or austhetics.For me,the investment comes with how much you enjoy music,how often,or if you like to be emotionally stirred up a bit.If thats the case,you make room,put out the coin,to recreate that emotion.For a while,HT pretty much took over the market as it was more a family thing,easier to sell,more profitable.Hardcore music lovers though,remain faithfull to form,thus putting us in a niche market compared to the masses.Tubes or SS,doesn't matter,as seperate amps,alone ,are a niche market when compared to AVR's.Cathy might be a bit off by suggesting tubes alone are a niche.High end audio by itself,is a shrinking market.

cfrizz

Tony, you are a genious when it comes to interpreting Cathy-speak!:D

I really don't see highend audio going away, simply because more companies are bringing what was once highend gear to the masses who are at midfi level at affordable prices.

And I think this was brought about because of the advent of HT. I think we will see eventually an increase at midfi level.

Now if that means the highend takes a dip, that's ok. There will always be people who have money to burn who want a "name" to show off.

And a lot of this is simply a matter of age & available discretionary funds. As the kids of today start to settle down & make more money, they will want to start to upgrade their home boom boxes for a real system.

cnh

Unfortunately true.

One more factor here is 'age'. If you're my age or older you've CERTAINLY heard TUBE amps! Tubes ruled before the SS generation...and not just TV tubes! Many of the early amps of my youth were all tube based designs. I don't own any at the moment, but I remember those amps putting out 'more' than the equivalent SS...even back then. Now the 'tube' is a high-end market for the specialty audio crowd.

I'm getting old...but Cathy is right..the market may shrink but it will always be around. A good analogy is the resurgence of Cigar smoking and the concern with shops that cater to the Cigar Aficionado--when I was a kid only my father and grandfather's generation did 'cigars'. Now you can go into a shop (I don't smoke myself) and peruse 100s of varieties at incredible price ranges. That resurgence was partly fueled by Yuppies back in the day....but no longer dependent on that phenomenon.

cnh

Face

tonyb wrote: »

I think what Cathy is trying to get out is that most people couldn't tell you what the heck a tube is.Probably only associated tubes with their old TV's.Of coarse in our world,thats not the case.But then again,compared to the mass market of AVR's,our world is pretty much a niche market.Same could be said for seperates,ss/tubes,most don't know what the hell they are,used for,or why,when a 400 dollar Sony receiver covers all bases,for the average joe.I lay that opinion down on the realization that most don't give two squats about sound quality.Bose wave radio is where it's at for them.That is untill they go by a friends house,hear a decent system,then say,my that sounds nice,but are turned off by the costs involved,the room it takes up,or austhetics.For me,the investment comes with how much you enjoy music,how often,or if you like to be emotionally stirred up a bit.If thats the case,you make room,put out the coin,to recreate that emotion.For a while,HT pretty much took over the market as it was more a family thing,easier to sell,more profitable.Hardcore music lovers though,remain faithfull to form,thus putting us in a niche market compared to the masses.Tubes or SS,doesn't matter,as seperate amps,alone ,are a niche market when compared to AVR's.Cathy might be a bit off by suggesting tubes alone are a niche.High end audio by itself,is a shrinking market.

So what you're saying is, most people no longer know what good sound is?

mhardy6647

there is that.

reeltrouble1

Tubes Rule.

RT1

cfrizz

That is TOTALLY within the realm of each listener and what sounds good to THEM. No one else can make that judgement for them.

Face wrote: »

So what you're saying is, most people no longer know what good sound is?

Hillbilly61

cfrizz wrote: »

Tony, you are a genious when it comes to interpreting Cathy-speak!:D

I really don't see highend audio going away, simply because more companies are bringing what was once highend gear to the masses who are at midfi level at affordable prices.

And I think this was brought about because of the advent of HT. I think we will see eventually an increase at midfi level.

Now if that means the highend takes a dip, that's ok. There will always be people who have money to burn who want a "name" to show off.

And a lot of this is simply a matter of age & available discretionary funds. As the kids of today start to settle down & make more money, they will want to start to upgrade their home boom boxes for a real system.

I see what you are saying. To comment, I do not believe that highend will take a dip. If anything, the opposite. Stereo has in and of itself has been on a slide from a consumer perspective. HT turned that around for sure.

Therefore, the way I see it, people who have delved into mid grade HT, now are being exposed to music reproduction, etc that would not have been. Upgadeitus, which affects us all , will kick in for many. That is good for our hobby!

gdb

To get back to one of the OP's questions......since you are deaf and are concerned about bass, I recommend that you do the most research on the subwoofer part of the equation. They are what create the "tactile" bass freqs. and move A LOT of air too. Unless the other family members have "audiophile/golden ear" requirements for sound reproduction, and if the Emotiva gear fits your budget....Go For It . I heard a 2ch + 3ch Emo rig driving some Polk LSi15s, LSi 9s and an LSiC that sounded unbelievable even with a lesser grade powered subwoofer! (BTW, you might want 2 subs) I'm really glad that when I travel by air.....that the radio communications are NOT tube powered !!:D

CaligulaPolk

gdb wrote: »

To get back to one of the OP's questions......since you are deaf and are concerned about bass, I recommend that you do the most research on the subwoofer part of the equation. They are what create the "tactile" bass freqs. and move A LOT of air too. Unless the other family members have "audiophile/golden ear" requirements for sound reproduction, and if the Emotiva gear fits your budget....Go For It . I heard a 2ch + 3ch Emo rig driving some Polk LSi15s, LSi 9s and an LSiC that sounded unbelievable even with a lesser grade powered subwoofer! (BTW, you might want 2 subs) I'm really glad that when I travel by air.....that the radio communications are NOT tube powered !!:D

I appreciate your taking time write this comments. I plan on buying svs pc ultra sub this week. Dont know if i will need 2 or i would end up buying two if i wanted more powerful bass. Am going to test with 1 sub for now, but people are saying i would be satisfied with 1. well see and go from there later.