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Serendipity

Power Conditioners!

Seriously - My APC SUA1500 is on its way out (powers on, then clicks off once in a while) and I'm thinking about replacing it with something else. So far I've looked at units from Panamax, Belkin, Monster Power, and of course, APC. Although I do not have much faith in their units (APC) anymore.

The APC server units' boxes say "Legendary Reliability" on the side... haha

So much for legendary reliability. More like "Lousy Reliability"...

Serendipity

I'm interested in this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1193600MK2/Monster-Power-HTS-3600-MKII.html?tp=568

How would units from Panamax, Belkin, or APC stack up?

fatchowmein

Dead/dying battery? Some of those UPS's run off the battery. In other words, all of the devices attached to the UPS is running off of battery power and the outlet is charging it. So if the battery is almost dead, the UPS will kick on and off even though the UPS is plugged into the wall socket. I'm not sure if the alarm will sound for a dead battery or whether the alarm only screams when the UPS is not receiving electrical power from the outlet.

I could be wrong since I'm not familiar with your model. You would think the UPS is smart enough to bypass the battery if it's dead.

**** NEVERMIND ****
According to APC...
"distinctive low battery alarm"
"Alarm when on battery"

Serendipity

My unit kicks on and off based on load. If there is nothing on it, it will run fine. However, even an Onkyo AVR will cause it to shut down.

If I were to replace the battery, it would cost $179 from APC. A Panamax unit would be around that price ($250 MSRP)

Is it worth it?

fatchowmein

Man, they kill you with the consummables and I'm not even positive it's the battery. Kick it to the ground and go buy yourself a new and shiny replacement.

Happy hunting.

Serendipity

Okay, I guess it's between the entry level Panamax and the Monster HTS3600.

I saw the Monster the other day and it felt light. Not sure how good a unit it is though.

dkg999

I have two Panamax 5100EX units and they have been reliable, really do a good job cleaning up the power, and have high-current outlets that don't limit your amps.

You might also look at the PS Audio Duet and Quintet units.

F1nut

My APC SUA1500 is on its way out

Why would you use a UPS designed for use with computer gear as a power conditioner for audio gear???

metal83

I use a Monster HTS 1600.
I've had no problems with it at all, and I have EVERYTHING plugged into it as well, AMP, AVR, TV, etc.
But i have no choice in that at the current moment with my outlet layout.

Sherardp

no problems with my Monster 7000 /3500 MKII, both have performed well.

Serendipity

F1nut wrote: »

Why would you use a UPS designed for use with computer gear as a power conditioner for audio gear???

At first, I did it so that my projector could go through the cool-down period if there was a power outage. But then I found out that when connected to my audio gear, the sound quality improved.

So it's been hooked up to the audio setup since - and yes, it is also a voltage regulator/filter/power conditioner.

janmike

I just know that my Hydra 8 is not going anywhere.

Serendipity

And I need something that can allow my projector to shut down properly in the event of a power outage.

That's why I had a combo unit like the APC. The SUA1500 is not just a UPS...

Systems

appadv wrote: »

I'm interested in this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1193600MK2/Monster-Power-HTS-3600-MKII.html?tp=568

How would units from Panamax, Belkin, or APC stack up?

I have one of those, been using it about 7 years I guess, works great so far. I haven't had any problems with it.

If you want an all in one unit like you describe your going to have to spend some bucks....

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_2991500UPS/Panamax-M1500-UPS.html?showAll=N&tp=568

Serendipity

As an electrical engineer, I am looking for a unit with high-quality MOV's, a heavy transformer, good filtering circuitry, and voltage regulation.

Not a fancy, overpriced unit that comes in a "nice box".

Face

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=258472

The link below was recommended by Richard Grey of the Richard Grey Power Company. He should be releasing a UPS of his own sometime this year though.

http://www.powerware.com/UPS/Products.asp

mmadden28

I'm sure you already saw this, and I know its APC and doesn';t have a battery, but I just bought one and am considering another for the build and price.
Audioholics has the APC H15 (and several orther models) on sale. Its Silver vs. Black but...its only $150

Maybe get a standalone UPS just for the PJ. It will only have to support the load of the PJ and only long enough for it to cool down.

Serendipity

Thanks, I might consider that. A standalone UPS for the PJ and an APC H15 for the audio gear.

However, my HP Digital Entertainment Center z560 needs a UPS too - because it's running Windows XP and the computer can shut down the UPS after the OS has finished shutdown. Also the Lenovo I am using as a music server and my DVR need battery backup too.

F1nut

appadv wrote: »

At first, I did it so that my projector could go through the cool-down period if there was a power outage. But then I found out that when connected to my audio gear, the sound quality improved.

So it's been hooked up to the audio setup since - and yes, it is also a voltage regulator/filter/power conditioner.

Output Power Capacity 980 Watts / 1440 VA

Well, it may be ok for a CDP or other low draw item, but it'll choke any amp hooked up to it. Again, it's not designed for use with audio gear.

Jstas

appadv wrote: »

Power Conditioners!

Seriously - My APC SUA1500 is on its way out (powers on, then clicks off once in a while) and I'm thinking about replacing it with something else. So far I've looked at units from Panamax, Belkin, Monster Power, and of course, APC. Although I do not have much faith in their units (APC) anymore.

The APC server units' boxes say "Legendary Reliability" on the side... haha

So much for legendary reliability. More like "Lousy Reliability"...

Ummm, how so? Because honestly the SUA1500 is a fairly old unit and the batteries do get worn out and they have to be replaced.

But in reliability APC is referring to the operation of their units to function as uninterruptible power supplies. They do need to be maintained and replaced and you can still get batteries for them. Call up APC or go to their website and price them out.

But as far as UPS systems and power conditioning, APC rewrote the book and redefined the industry when they came on the scene. They are the defacto standard for operation in all scales. They can even put together a system to support an entire data center if you need them to. They cost a bunch of money but you pay for the best and I've gotten as much as 10 years out of a battery based APC unit. I wouldn't even think of complaining about that. That's honestly quite awesome since most data centers get upgraded every 3-7 years.

But hundreds of billions of dollars worth of equipment worldwide relies on APC power systems to stay up and running while protected from power surges and spikes. If it's good enough to protect that stuff, it's overkill for your stuff.



And unless you have a degree, you aren't an electrical engineer just yet. Don't be that kid that jumps out of school and thinks he's bigger than his britches, trashing industry standards and walking around with an arrogance that you can do better than that. Somebody who is quite intolerant of such behavior from veritable n00bs will give you a smack down and you will have to work very hard to regain any respect you might have had.

Pauly

Just picked up one of these, waiting for it to get here

http://www.buy.com/prod/belkin-pureav-pf30-home-theater-power-console-3245j/q/loc/111/207514354.html?dcaid=15891

Good Reviews, Priced just right and not bad looking IMO


Pauly

Serendipity

Jstas -

When did I ever say that? You've got me confused, as I would NEVER go around saying that I'm better than anyone else. That's just not who I am.

Edit: I'm just here to learn. And I realize that you guys know a lot more than I do.

reeltrouble1

PS Audio
Shunyata
Running Springs

the very best units do not use MOV

RT1

Serendipity

Thanks, I will consider those although they are more expensive.

MikeC78

Face wrote: »

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=258472

The link below was recommended by Richard Grey of the Richard Grey Power Company. He should be releasing a UPS of his own sometime this year though.

http://www.powerware.com/UPS/Products.asp

Personally, I'd stay away from Richard Grey since they are not certified and tested with any federal safety regulations. Specs on those units seem flaky and non proper. They might work ok, but I'd definetly choose something else.

BTW, I know that link isn't RG, just speaking in general terms.:)

Jstas

appadv wrote: »

Jstas -

When did I ever say that? You've got me confused, as I would NEVER go around saying that I'm better than anyone else. That's just not who I am.

Edit: I'm just here to learn. And I realize that you guys know a lot more than I do.

appadv wrote: »

As an electrical engineer, I am looking for a unit with high-quality MOV's, a heavy transformer, good filtering circuitry, and voltage regulation.

Not a fancy, overpriced unit that comes in a "nice box".

Unless you got your degree and I don't know about it, you are not an engineer. You also lack the experience to be able to determine what is junk and what isn't when it comes to UPS systems like you have with your APC SUA1500. The SUA1500 is an ample piece of equipment that has other uses outside of it's intended design. But after years of using systems that I supported with SUA1400's, SUA1500's and SUA2200's in their intended operational environment, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that they are one of if not the best units available. They were stone cold reliable to a point that I often forget they were there. Until they started with their shrieking warning buzzer and blinking lights or we lost power and I had to make sure everything was healthy after we came back up. That is my professional and experienced opinion.

Your post comes off as arrogant due to your limited experience with such equipment. What I was trying to say earlier in a not so brash manner is to lose the 'tude, dude. If you want to be an electrical engineer and get a job in engineering somewhere, you are going to run in to people that will make you look like a small-minded, simpleton even if you have the best grades, highest IQ and completed a 4 year program in 2 or whatever. I've been there, I've seen it happen to many fresh faces just out of school. I'm offering you some real-world advice and I should have just kept it to myself and spared your fragile ego.

Serendipity

Yes, I do have limited experience with such equipment. I also said that I am here to learn, and that I would never, ever say that I'm better than anyone else.

Serendipity

Jstas wrote: »

Unless you got your degree and I don't know about it, you are not an engineer. You also lack the experience to be able to determine what is junk and what isn't when it comes to UPS systems like you have with your APC SUA1500.

Just because mine failed doesn't mean that all APC units are junk. Again, to a large extent, they are probably reliable.

nadams

F1nut wrote: »

Well, it may be ok for a CDP or other low draw item, but it'll choke any amp hooked up to it. Again, it's not designed for use with audio gear.

How would that choke audio gear? My GFA-545 only draws rougly 150watts when I have it CRANKED.

Jstas

F1nut wrote: »

Well, it may be ok for a CDP or other low draw item, but it'll choke any amp hooked up to it. Again, it's not designed for use with audio gear.

Actually, if you look at the specs of most of these "home theater line conditioners" and "power stations", they have similar specs. But the SUA1500 is bottom rung from APC. It's designed to support entry-level and mid-sized servers which typically draw about 5-8 times as much power as a common desktop.

If you feel that 1440 VA is not enough to support your stereo then this "wee beasty" might be better suited.



At 4000 Watts / 5000 VA, you'll have a bit of trouble finding something that can tax that without spending a small fortune for ultra high end stuff like entry level Krell. The only problem other than the $2800 asking price is power. Input is 208V and output is too at 208V. So to use it with typical 120V appliances, you'd need a step down transformer.

Kinda like this one:



Don't worry, it has similar capabilities like the one above. 4000 Watts / 5000 VA and input is still 208V but with the little box on top, output can be 120V or 208V. But it's designed to support racks of these:



That's a Sun SPARC Enterprise T5440 which is the top rung server of the small-business line of servers from one of the top systems solutions companies in the world. That starts at $51,449 and tops out in options close to $300K. Pretty pricey investment.

That would be 4 1133 watt power supplies with a maximum operating input power of 2629 watts, one of those UPS units above can be speced out from the factory (extra battery pack added brings it up to about 8800 VA) to have the capability to support 3 of those Sun servers.

And that's just Home/Small Office offerings from APC.

Yeah, power is power. It's governed by the laws of physics. Just because the case isn't pretty or it's "made to run computers" doesn't mean it can't handle the draw of your home theater or stereo. UPS units are all the same idea. Big transformer, pile of batteries and fancy electronics to control switching, charging and line conditioning. In fact, APC's home theater gear UPS units and line conditioners were just the entry level, small office units in a nicer package and all the reviewers raved about them, APC over-charged for pretty cases and made a mint.

Serendipity

Thanks, I'll consider those units!

Again, I know very little about this stuff but I am here to learn.