Check my thinking....

Shizelbs

Okay, this is the follow-up to my first post. In that post I asked for advice on whether or not to upgrade from my R40's to the LSi series. From that I have learned that I need to first and foremost upgrade my receiver. I currently have a Sony STR DE-325. It works for me, but it just doesn't have the power to allow a set of rear speakers. So, what I am planning on doing is getting the CSi20 to match my R40's and get a pair of R20's for my surround. At my local Polk dealer, starting Monday, if I spend $500 I can either get the Polk 202 sub for free or $200 credit towards other Polk speakers. I am guessing that $500 will go towards my new receiver. I am thinking about the Onkyo Tx-600. I am also willing to get the Tx-500, but I am thinking that going with the 600 will leave me with a more versatile receiver. The gentleman at the store also told me that although Harmon Kardon receivers are more expensive, you also get a cleaner sound than the Onkyo's.
So, I guess I need two pieces of advice from you all.
1) Does my thinking of sticking with the R series sound good. I like my R40's already, so it seems to me that I should keep them while I like them and a new receiver will inject a little more life into them anyways. I guess I am sort of expecting the new receiver to make them sound like new speakers.
2) I need advice on a good receiver to get. I want one that is quality and that will leave me with the flexibility to still have a worthy receiver if and when I upgrade to the RTi series or maybe even the LSi series.

I am new to all this, as I am sure you can tell. I really appreciate all the positive energy and constructive feedback that is so prevalent in this forum.

Thanks

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

Pioneer Elite has a 6 channel receiver - 110 wats x 6 for 460 at online stores
It has preouts, so u can upgrade to amps later if u choose to get LSI

etrigan

IMHO - LSI's "NEED" Amps/Preamps (seperates) to get the full potential that these loudspeakers are caple of.
Going from the "R" series to the "RTI" series is a major upgrade-
going from "R" to "LSI'S is :eek:
One step at a time my friend your also talkin' about diff. OHM'S
If I'm not mistakin'
More folks "In the Know" will certainly step in - but I assume the advice will be the same--Upgrade the Rec/Amp first (perhaps,not SO much for the RTI'S,but for the LS's -- without a doubt !)
BTW, my Outlaw 1050 Drives my RT800I's/CS400I/RT25I's/and 2 PSW 350's Flawlessly-If I could afford it-at the moment I would love to add amps which would make a hellofva difference-
But would I replace my RTI's w/the LS's (at this point in time)--
Hell no!! -- IMHO It would probably sound worse !
LS's need good clean POWER to drive them properly-
do your research and do a search on this forum for info on the LS line-you will learn much.

Have fun/listen--It has only just begun


CHEERS ! Jefff

RuSsMaN

Originally posted by Shizelbs
I like my R40's already, so it seems to me that I should keep them while I like them and a new receiver will inject a little more life into them anyways.

I think you answered your own question there Cochise. Look into Denon, NAD, Marantz, Yamaha, AMC, and Onkyo for some high-current goodness.

I have had positive experiences with both Yamaha and NAD on the R-Series. Those speakers can really open up on some decent gear.

I say stick with the speakers you already like, look at the sources/amps (receiver) as an upgrade path. Fine tune it with interconnects/cables.

Cheers,
Rooster

Shizelbs

I guess I should restate my intentions. I do plan on keeping my R40's. I wish to do two things. One, add a CSi20 and a pair of R20's to finish off the 5.1 setup. Currently I only have the R40's and a Sony sub. The second concern is that I want to get a better receiver because the one I have now is incapable of supplying enough power to the rear channels. So, I figure while I am going to get a new receiver, I might as well get a new one that will also work well with the RTi series if and when I upgrade to those, or whatever Polk will make at that point in the future. Might as well buy a quality receiver now so I don't have to buy another one all over again. I guess I am asking for advice and suggestions on which receiver you think would best fit my current needs.
The LSi's are a distant vision. There is no chance of them materializing in the near future.
I appreciate all this feedback. Thanks

mantis

This is what I would do if I where you.Go out and listen and compare features with other receivers in your price range.
Denon is a good company and works well with Rt series speakers.....but not Lsi.
Yamaha also works well but I would say on the extreme bright side....No lsi..can do it buts sound horrible in my opnion.
Pioneer Elite are well rounded and sound awesome.Lsi can be ran if you go Flagship.
Sony ES recievers earned my respect for being neutral sounding and very powerfull.They are harder to use then most but nice nonetheless......Lsi can but I wouldn't.
Kenwood,Onkyo,HK,Technic's I don't care for personally,but that doesn't mean you should explore them for yourself.
Integra is where I would look if you like Onkyo products.They are the best of the Onkyo family.They have better custom features,DAC's and Amp section.This is a good upgrade and would get you started with Lsi si you feel the need to do so.
Russ's advice to better your gear around the speakers you own is a good,I would do the same,then after all gear is up to speed,new speaker come naturally ....... to somethat is,you might be happy where you end up with.
Here's my advice with trying to buy a receiver to last.........you can't,formats change to quickly now,more cahnnels get added,and connections change.There are however products on the market that can be "upgraded".This is the best bet if you want you receiver to last.Flagship receivers are where you'll find this.

brettw22

Upgrading can be a brutal thing. While you want to upgrade what you have, you also want to upgrade to something that you'll be happy with for a while. More often than not, it's impractical to think about upgrading every piece of your sytem at one time. Your receiver is going to need to be upgraded, and the Onk's that you mention would be a step up, but if you wait it out and spend a lil more coin, you could get something that would truly last. It's harder to buy speakers to fit your receiver than it is to buy a receiver to compliment your speakers. That being said, you need to have a good idea of what you like, or are planning on upgrading to for your receiver to be the best fit that you can get.

Without knowing what your total budget is, it's a lil hard to give suggestions on your upgrades. I would first start of by saying that the center you're looking at is going to leave you wanting more, especially if you're eventually looking at upgrading your mains. In your other post, you said that you'd like a good center(were thinking about the LSiC) and now are looking at a csi20. Talk about extremes. At a minimum, I would look at the csi30, which only MSRP's for $70 more. For the same, or less, money that you were looking at spending on the LSiC, you can get a CSi40 for around $290 all over Ebay.

You said that your current receiver won't run your surrounds. I couldn't find your current receiver anywhere, so I'll give ya some pretty entry level options. We could give you $1000 receivers all day long, but going from what you have to something that will last, at least for a while and will still be an upgrade from what you have, look at these:

DENON 1801
or
DENON 1802

Each are going to end within a day and for around $250. That would be a good step and give you DD and DTS processing. Keep your eye on Ebay. It can save you a LOT of coin on equipment, especially used (if you feel comfortable with that).

For surrounds, you mentioned the R20s. If you're somewhat handy, you could get this fixer-upper pair of RT35i's:

RT35i's

They need some work, but if you did some simple fixes, they'd be good, with minor cosmetic damage. They're great speakers, and for this pair, a STEAL, even if you only get one of them working. Just a thought.....

Anyway, we could come up with stuff all day long, and I'm sorry if I'm proposing too much money. You need to let us know what your budget is to accurately and practically make suggestions.

Good luck..............

Shizelbs

I am not opposed to getting the larger center, but I do want whatever center I go with for now to match my R40's. That is why I am leaning for the CSi20 for now.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

go for the csi30 for the sake of the future and what it might hold for u, u can alwayz volume down the center

Shizelbs

So no foreseen conflicts with timbre matching between the CSi30 and my R40's? If that is that case then I will get the CSi40 maybe.

brettw22

The 40 may be a bit much with your current setup, but think of the future. If you have ANY intention of upgrading your mains in the future, get the better center now. At a VERY minimum, get the 30 instead of the 20, but for not a lot more, you can have the 40 so to me, that makes the better step. True, may have spent an additional $100-150, but it'll be money VERY well spent, IMO. Then all ya have to do is maybe turn it down a little bit so it doesn't overpower your mains.......you'll be set.

caseymou

IMO, stay away from the XX01 denon products as they do not have DPL II (correct me if I am wrong). DPL II is really a big improvement over DPL for tv viewing. Just my opinion.

RuSsMaN

The 20 matches your system, you like your 40's, stick with it.

brettw22

Originally posted by caseymou
IMO, stay away from the XX01 denon products as they do not have DPL II (correct me if I am wrong). DPL II is really a big improvement over DPL for tv viewing. Just my opinion.

True.......but if he's looking to save money and do a quick cheap upgrade, maybe it's something that he can live without......

Shizelbs

Well, I am not necessarily looking to save too much money with anything. I don't have an unlimited supply to work with, but I don't want to be cheap with my receiver either. Sticking with the R series shouldn't be mistaken for being cheap either, its just I still like them so I figure I might as well stick with them.

Shizelbs

The other thing is, and not life or death, if I get a Onkyo or H/K receiver, which my local Polk dealer carries, I can get either the 202 sub for free or $200 towards Polk products.

Shizelbs

Well, I was thinking about $500-$1000 for my receiver. That was until just now. I graduate from pharmacy school in May, 2005. So, whatever setup I go with will have to last me until then. If my passion for audio and music continues to blossom, I see myself upgrading most everything when I get out of school and land a job. Cash will be a little more abundant at that point. So, now my thinking is, that maybe I will just go with the TX-S500 Onkyo. My dealer will let me upgrade if I want to go with the 600. Also, I don't need the sixth channel.
Plus, I was talking about getting a receiver that will allow me to keep it once I upgrade the speakers. But if I am planning on moving the R series to my bedroom, where ever, then I will still need the 5.1 receiver to come with it. So, I am thinking that maybe I will just go with the 500 Onkyo for now, and if it does not move me like I want it to, then I can always upgrade to the 600.
I was planning on steering clear of Denon by the way

shack

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Man..., stay clear of Denon. Im not sure what everyone else see's in that reciever......perhaps its just the name that commands respect.

What commands respect is the sound I hear and the reliabilty I have. Everybody's experience is different. There are those who say the the Onkyos and the HKs of late have been experiencing reliability problems and the the Onkyos are not coming close to their stated power ratings. I, however, don't know this for a fact as I haven't owned either one. I have previously and do currently own a Denon receiver and it sounds very good to me with my RTi series of speakers and it has had no poblems whatsoever. I chose it because it sounded better than the others I listened to. I like and own NAD equipment. Some don't. I don't care for Yamaha receivers but I have good friends that swear by them. Lots of good stuff out there in your price range that will serve you for many years...all the brands above plus Outlaw, Marantz, Pioneer, NAD etc... Go listen to as much as you can and then make your decision. If it is Onkyo or HK...fine....its your ears and your $. Enjoy the search.

Shizelbs

Okay, here is my tentative plan that I have arrived at and thought over and slept on. I am planning on getting the CSi 20, a pair of R15's (as the tweeter and woofer size match my R40's perfectly) and the Onkyo TX-S500 with the option to upgrade to the 600 if I am dissatisfied. I may pick up the option of getting the 202 sub for free instead of taking $200 off my bill.
Again, thanks for all the help and suggestions.

kanicker

Take the money
or use the $200 to upgrade the sub....

RuSsMaN

Sounds like a GREAT plan. Perhaps we will see the R series done RIGHT in the System Showcase in the not-so-distant future.

Cheers,
Rooster

Shizelbs

Thanks Russ. Just need a digital camera so I can show off my bad-ace system in my university apartement outfitted with original woodwork, paint and carpet from the 70's!

RuSsMaN

Splurge and get some 'regular' film, the local photomat should be able to throw em' on cd for you.

Enjoy your rig broham. I've actually contemplated moving my B&W OUT of the HT rig, and setting up an R-series HT.

Cheers,
Rooster

Shizelbs

I will let you know how it turns out Russman. I am getting pretty excited about it. I am losing a little sleep even. Fun stuff for a newbie like me. Unfortunatly I have a big test coming up (1/12 of my semester GPA!) so I won't get around to it until this weekend. Its going to be a good weekend though.

brettw22

I would personally re-think that CSi20........but good luck with your setup

Tour2ma

Shizelbs,
I did some off-line work with another Clubber on AVR selection.
On paper:
- the Yamaha RX-V2300 was clearly the best "value", if you will be satisfied by a 6.1 AVR.
- If 7.1 capability is a must, the Denon AVR-3803 looked very good.
Value was determined ultimately by total amplifier power (all channels) divided by the best total price found. To get to this step all candidates needed to be equal in processor speed and roughly equal in flexibility (# of inputs, etc.), tuner performance, etc. The “analysis” included the above two, plus an Onkyo and an Integra. A second Denon and Onkyo were initially included, but quickly fell out of the competition (older processors).

If you would like a copy of the spreadsheet, send me an e-mail. It’s not all that fancy, but might be useful in narrowing the field for store trials. IMO trialing electronics is harder to do than speakers. Different stores, speakers, rooms, sources make it impossible to attribute any perceived difference to the AVR/amp. On the other hand getting your hands on the AVR to get a sense of its “friendliness” is important, so as long as you’re there, give a listen.

RuSsMaN

Originally posted by brettw22
I would personally re-think that CSi20........but good luck with your setup

Why would you suggest that Brett?

What we have learned so far:

A. The guy LIKES his R40's, a LOT.

2. The CSi20 is the center that Polk designed to match his mains (the ones he likes so much)

D. The upgrade path/plan for now was focused on electronics. (since he likes the speakers he has)

Cheers,
Russ

brettw22

First off........you been drinking already Russ? Points A, 2, and D?

All I'm sayin is that in a week and a half, he went from contemplating upgrading to an entire LSi setup, at least to start off with the center channel, to staying with what he's got, and talking about upgrading to the RT line somewhere along the line. True, regardless of his choice, he's going to have to upgrade the receiver.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't do babysteps like that. I'm not going to buy a center to match what I have when I clearly know that in the not so distant future I'm going to be replacing the speakers I'm trying to match. It doesn't make sense to upgrade centers two or three times to match what he's moving out of and into, ya know?

Yes, the CSi20 is a match to his 40's. I don't wanna dog on the 20, but realistically, it's (comparitively) going to be a weak speaker, and if there's ANY chance that he's looking to upgrade his mains, whenever that may be (if at all), then I'd skip right over the 20 and go into something that's going to give him more happiness, and longevity.

I know he wants/needs to upgrade his receiver, but I think he also mentioned that he's wanting to move into some HT capabilities. For that, I would say get the strongest center you can afford, and if it needs to be tweeked through the receiver to match, he can do that.

Hell, what do I know though. I'm set up with RT16's, a CS1000p, and F/X1000's and I wouldn't ever go back. If I used the "recommended' center and surrounds for my mains, it'd be the csi30 or 40, and fxi30's or 50's. None of those appealed to me.

Shizelbs, my intention isn't to imply that you need to, or should, upgrade your mains. I'm only saying that to upgrade you don't have to stick with only the 'recommended' speaker to be happy. At the same time, I'm trying to keep you from buying a center to match what you have now, and then having to do it all over again when/if you do look to upgrade down the line. I'd rather spend an additional $100-200 now rather than have to spend $300-400 later for a whole different speaker............

Shizelbs

Seems like a good point for me to step in and speak my mind. I really appreciate all the discussion. It is true my thinking has changed a whole lot in just a little time. I was interested in the LSi series because I could barely afford it from an online retailer. So, I was pretty excited. However, from all of you, I learned that my receiver needs to be upgraded, as well as a whole host of other components, and I didn't want to get into all of that, let alone not being able to afford it either.
So then I started thinking about the receiver. And being frugal (well, cheap) I wanted a receiver that was good enough for both my R series, but also one that I wouldn't have to replace when I upgraded my speakers. Makes sense to me.
So once I convinced myself that I needed a receiver and that there was no way around it, I started to look at what else I could do with my remaining money. I was debating whether or not I should stay in the R series or go RTi. Then I remembered that I like the R series. And that I am in college. And that I should stay a little humble. So, because I like them, I am going to stick with them, including the center channel that matches.
I did debate getting the 30 or 40 center. But then I also realized that when I upgrade my speakers in the future, I will probably just do it all. Why? Cause when I do, the R series will get moved to my bedroom or where ever. I am sure I will be happy with the R series until I graduate and can afford a better system. So, because I will not be upgrading piece by piece, and rather do it more or less as a whole, I am going to stick with the CSi20.
I am going to go with what I can afford, with room to spare. I like them, and I don't want to cut their life short by upgrading prematurely.
So, I hope this clears up any debate. When I first joined, my eyes were bigger than my ears (if that makes sense), but I think I have finally settled on a much wiser and sound decision of what I really want.

shack

A wise and well thought-out choice IMHO.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by Shizelbs
my eyes were bigger than my ears...

We've all been there.
Good choice. Let us know when you make a buy.