Apple versus PC - computer shopping

MacLeod

Hey guys, my beloved and trusty 6 year old Sony Vaio is starting to get a little long in the tooth and I hate to but I think its time I start looking to upgrade. It worked flawlessly for years but lately I started dabbling in video editing and making my own DVD's from home movies and my poor 1.6 GHz processor was heavily being overworked. Not to mention my 80 GB hard drive is totally inadequate considering a high quality, hour long video file takes up to 50 GB of space!

So Im very familiar with PC's and have been looking at some and found there are a lot of good deals out. I can get a Dell Studio XPS with the smokin' Intel i7-920 processor, 4 GB of DDR3 ram and 640 GB hard drive for $1000. Or I can get an HP Pavilion Elite with an Intel Quad processor, 8 GB of DDR2 ram and 1 TB hard drive for $1200. Both of those sound like monster computers for very reasonable prices.

But everybody says Macs are supposed to be the best so I looked at some of those. Now you can get a 20" iMac with an Intel 2.4 GHz processor, 1 GB or ram and 250 GB hard drive for $1200. Now Ive already got a very good monitor but the only ones you can get from Apple without a monitor is the lowly Mac Mini which has half the processing and memory of the iMac for $800.

So I guess my questions are:

1- Is it just me or can I get twice, nearly 3 times the computing power in a PC than I could in a Mac for the same money?

2- Is there really that big a difference in the performance of Apple vs PC or is it more of a personal preferecne?

I use my compy for a ton of online browsing, a good deal of music editing, a little picture editing and just starting to get into video editing so from my own limited knowledge and research, the Dell with that monster i7 processor for $1000 looks to be my best bet. But Im very interested in an iMac as I keep hearing that even tho their specs arent all that great, its what they do with those specs and its why they perform better than PC's equipped with twice as much.

Id appreciate any thoughts.

Airplay355

You can buy a Mac pro without a monitor since you already have a nice monitor if you want.

I love my mac, I switched from a 7 year old vaio and it was an enourmous difference. I like OS X much better than any windows operating system. You don't have to fdisk it when it gets overloaded with crap, you don't have to worry as much about viruses and things are overall just much easier. Plus if you really wanted to, you can always run windows on a mac with bootcamp.

Macs are a real quality product and if anything goes wrong you don't have to ship it to who knows where to get it fixed, just walk into an apple store.

I can't tell you why they would be faster with lesser specs, but I've never had any problems with mine and it's a year and a half old.

I do some picture and sound editing with my mac and photoshop is nice and quick. I've never had lag or anything even when using large weird brushes on high dpi files.

tcrossma

MacLeod wrote: »

But everybody says Macs are supposed to be the best

I don't think everyone says that.

MacLeod wrote: »

1- Is it just me or can I get twice, nearly 3 times the computing power in a PC than I could in a Mac for the same money?

It's not just you, no.

There is good and bad software available on both platforms. Just because it's a Mac does not mean that everything is easy, and just because it's a PC doesn't mean that nothing works.

I personally would go with that Dell. Good luck in your search.

John30_30

You say you're familiar with P.C. hardware, get a smokin' fast barebones rig for $500, throw on a video card, CPU fan and have the same hardware as the H.P. for half that.

I don't care how pretty Mac OSX is, they don't have anything this fast in what you're looking at.

You've already got your Windows licence and software you can transfer from the old one.
I was a click away from getting a nice deal on a Dell, and traipsed over to Tigerdirect.com.
Here's an AMD system with Asus board:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4471626&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

and here's some Intels, plus you can run Mac OSX on your P.C.:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=333&name=Intel-Barebone&

jimbo1421

MacLeod wrote: »

2- Is there really that big a difference in the performance of Apple vs PC or is it more of a personal preferecne?

Id appreciate any thoughts.

I can't address the pure speed of processing issue. For that you need to compare benchmark testing and even that will not tell the whole story. But now that Macs use Intel processors their speeds should be roughly equivalent in each processor class.

Just as important for "performance" is the Total Cost of Ownership. And TCO includes time spent troubleshooting your system, getting peripherals to work, and dealing with the millions of pieces of malware that sweep around the Windows world (these are nearly, but not completely absent from the Mac OS X platform).

Back in 1997 I had to make a decision between the Mac and Windows world. I ran across a study out of Intel. They use lots of PCs there and had one tech support guy per 30 PCs. They also had a division with 200 Macs, and ONE tech support person. Other studies at the time showed that Macs cost anywhere between $200 to $2000 less per year to maintain, a big cost for a self employed person. That decided me and I have never regretted it.

You can also run Windows on Intel based Macs without the drag of a cross platform emulator. You get two computers for the price of one. Check out:
http://www.macwindows.com/emulator.html
http://www.macwindows.com/winintelmac.html

Regards,
Jim

howie777

Just received my first mac yesterday, a macbook pro. Then was at CC and found 50% of software and got a full copy of vista pretty cheap. Now I have 1 PC with OS X and Vista. Was pretty simple to setup too as the mac has the facility to dual boot built in and comes with all the drivers you need while running under Vista or XP!

As for running OS X on a PC I don't think you can legally, but not sure. I am very impressed with OS X so far, some little things they did make life simpler but I am finding some versions of MAC software just suck like Quicken and Office so it is nice to be able to dual boot. As for photo/video editing I believe a lot of people will tell you get a mac for that. Adobe software is suppose to run better on a mac than PC. Sucks about the monitor thing though. And Mac pros are probably 2.5 to 3x price from where your looking. I believe new imacs are due out in mid march when some new Intel processors become available. So I'd wait and see what they come out with.

Howie

WilliamM2

You've already got your Windows licence and software you can transfer from the old one.

Not legally. He has a Sony Vaio, legally, you can not transfer an OEM version of Windows to another PC. It is licensed to the original PC only.

goingganzo

pc i want a mac but dont have software for one

spwuinmk67

I switched to a mac about six months ago, and will probably never buy another windows based pc again. Less problems, less headaches, I run windows Xp through Vm ware fusion, so there's no need to shut down the computer to run a single windows program if I need. They cost a little more, but in my opinion, well worth it.

exalted512

I dont understand how all these people have all these problems with PCs...I've had one problem with mine over the course of 10+ YEARS.

Get the PC...youre already used to it and you dont have to spend an arm and a leg because it has an apple on the front of it.
-Cody

keith.wagner

All about personal taste, MacLeod, and depends on what's important to you. I switched about two years ago and never looked back. I had many motivations for doing so, but mainly I bought into the experience and as someone else had mentioned, total cost of ownership. You pay a little more upfront and really nothing more down the road. No antivirus software subscriptions and resultant antivirus tech calls due to infections, etc. They're not immune, but just seem to be much more stable and resilient.

I enjoy my MacBook because what is supposed to and does so almost transparently. I also like that it didn't come with a ton of trial apps and bloatware that needed to be removed. It just works--consistently.

I'm also biased. As a UNIX admin, I appreciate the fact that the OS is UNIX.

So shop around. Both systems will do what you are asking. The beauty is that you have a choice, and that's always good.

Enjoy!

Keith

John30_30

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Not legally. He has a Sony Vaio, legally, you can not transfer an OEM version of Windows to another PC. It is licensed to the original PC only.

I was assuming he upgraded the Vaio...but you're right. XP's been around for, what, 6-7 years now?

Also, if you're going to build your own, check out and review the motherboard. Be aware that Nvidia chipsets have had numerous issues recently...but I think Apple also recently signed on with them too. An OEM will offer you more of a warranty.

Airplay355

I have an nvidia card in my macbook pro.... 1 adn 1/2 years and no problems

WilliamM2

I believe he was talking about chipsets, not video cards. Personally, with an Intel chip, I always use an Intel chipset. Less issues.

Airplay355

Sorry. I didn't realize a chipset was something different. I assumed it just meant anything with an nvidia chip.

I like my mac because i'm not educated enough to fix the problems I cause when using a PC.

MacLeod

Thanks for the input guys.

Went to Best Buy today and messed around with an iMac and man this thing is sweet! Lightning fast and just smooth. I didnt get to do too much hardcore stuff on it but I went to a couple website that drage on my computer like CNET.com especially their videos, and even the lowly 1GB iMac played them as smooth as silk. Itunes popped up within seconds as opposed to 30-45 seconds on mine.

The coolness factor was off the charts as well as the build quality. This thing was solid. The keyboard and mouse both felt like they were made by BMW.

The sales guy said that Macs do have less specs than PC's but that they dont need 8 GB of RAM because their OS doesnt hog up huge amounts of memory like Vista does. Seems to make sense and it did seem to perform faster than the PC's they had on display with much larger processors and memory.

The only drawback for me was the $1500 price tag. I guess factoring in the excellent 20" monitor with it its not a really bad deal but Im not sure I want to spend that much especially when I dont need a new monitor.

Im still leaning heavily to Dell with the i7 processor and DDR3 ram for $1000. I have a feeling that is enough computer that it would last me 10 years before I needed to upgrade.

mantis

Windows 7 is coming out and hopefully Microcrap has fixed some or most of the issues with Vista. Windows computers are not the problems, it's the Operating system. Windows is terrible as most already know. I wish that wasn't so. You have to run so much spyware , firewalls , etc just so it can work without virus but somehow they still happen. They freeze up a lot and basically once a year you have to purge the entire hard drive and reinstall fresh. this seems to be the best way to keep one running it's best but even then they don't.
When you have other peole in your family like a Wife and children, Windows become a nightmare. For years I have been fixing all my windows computer and I really got tired of it. I would be fixing them more then using them. Then constatly spending money on antivirus software. It sucked so bad.
One day I decided to go Apple and I have never been so happy. We now have 3 of them and I we will be getting another. Since that day a few years ago, I have yet to fix anything. We all use them with no errors. I love it. They are also pretty easy and simple to use once you learn it. It makes sense. They also boot up from off faster then a Windows based Pc. And they don't slow down with time. My Imac has been running exaclty the same as the day we got it and it's loaded with Pictures, Movies , Music , software , all kinds of stuff. 4 users on it and it doesn't even break a sweat. Excellent machine.
You do pay more for Apple computers but it's worth it to me. I'd rather spend more on a machine thats going to work error free for years then spend less then have to fix it and add Spyware to it all the time.
I like the way Windows computers work and wish things where different. I would have both. I run XP on Bootcamp on the Mac's and it works great. We don't surf the net much on the Windows side so things stay simple. Not much software other then what we have to use there. IT's like having 2 computers in one.

Good luck with your new computer.

Dan

Airplay355

You can upgrade the RAM in the imacs very easily. I just put 4 gb of DDR2 in my macbook pro for $40 from newegg. I'm pretty sure the imacs use laptop sized ram.

jjwm27

i dont understand why people get viruses so much with windows, i have used windows since 98 and never had one and im on line all the time, maybe they should look before opening every email attachment and lay off the **** sites.

WilliamM2

jjwm27 wrote: »

i dont understand why people get viruses so much with windows, i have used windows since 98 and never had one and im on line all the time, maybe they should look before opening every email attachment and lay off the **** sites.

+1. I've never had a virus or spyware. I'm sure glad others do though, it's a great way to earn extra cash on the weekends!

Motzart

MacLeod wrote: »

The sales guy said that Macs do have less specs than PC's but that they dont need 8 GB of RAM because their OS doesnt hog up huge amounts of memory like Vista does.

Be interesting to see what the next version of Windows brings?
(Windows 7 IIRC)
Will see if it's still a hog and a PITA to use.

I'll make my determinations then.
Not real crazy about VISTA.....I still run Windows XP tweaked with all sortsa security programs.

Long as my 2004 Dell keeps ticking like it has I'll hold out.
NEVER had any mechanical problems with it since day one and it's runs 24/7.
Ran my old Compaq the same way and never had any trouble with it....just got to where there was no more upgrade to it.

Apple is far superior to a PC for doing graphics but they are harder to find programs for.
That's about all I know about em.

Sami

keith.wagner wrote: »

I'm also biased. As a UNIX admin, I appreciate the fact that the OS is UNIX.

That's why if MacLeod likes the Mac, he should get the PC hardware and install Linux on it. Cheaper, faster and IMO more stable than OSX.

jjwm27

WilliamM2 wrote: »

+1. I've never had a virus or spyware. I'm sure glad others do though, it's a great way to earn extra cash on the weekends!

thats a good point, i never thought of that. i cant count how many times i have had to remove stuff like that from peoples computors, i always wear surgical gloves, who knows whats on those keyboards.

polkatese

I have 3 PCs and a Macbook Pro that I just bought in October last year. I also bought another HP laptop for my son, last month. Now that I have both that I compare them with, what I like the most about MBP is not its speed compared to PC based. Rather, it easeness and elegance in how it does things, from installing apps, installing updates, user interface, etc. Also, it needs no reboot in most daily use: close the lid after use, and open it up the next day, and pick it up where it left off.

I still have two Desktop PCs (one XP and the other one Windows 7 ultimate). When those PCs done, I don't see anymore need to buy desktops, whether PC or Mac. With wireless, even printers don't need a host PC to run.

Sami

mantis wrote: »

When you have other peole in your family like a Wife and children, Windows become a nightmare.

That's an admin error. Windows comes with very loose security by default where *nix OS (Linux and Mac included) come with tight security. Too many time the computers are with multiple users, no passwords, and on top of that all are admins with every right to do anything they want to the computer.

Windows are supposed to be easy to use and install but at the same time, to configure one right needs an advanced user. Most Linux distros come fully setup nowadays and Mac of course is pre-installed.

greg2350

I dont know why you guys have had so many problems with pc's I have had xp on my pc for 5 years with no problems. The only thing I have done is added ram and sound card never had a virus. I have a mac to but all it gets used for is surfing by my 10yr old daughter so yeah mac is great for kids. I use my pc for a digital studio and it runs flawless yes I have to do maintnance but I dont mind its a pc not a toaster.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77938

Mac have you looked at this one its in your price range I played with it at frys very fast and has all the connections you would need. The touchscreen is more than a novelty its actually very useful.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883107873

MacLeod

I looked at the Touch Smart and they seem pretty cool as do the Sony "all-in-ones" but I think my snag is that Ive got a pretty solid 17" Sony monitor now and while Id love to have a big fancy LCD screen, it just seems like a waste. They all start at around $1200 but have specs of a $650 computer so that means Id be paying $550 for a monitor that I dont need. If I were going with a PC and going to spend $1000, Id rather buy $1000 worth of computer with one of those nuclear powered processor and more memory than you can shake a stick at.

The iMac is the only exception to this for me and thats only because theyre just so damn cool! Even tho the $1000 Dell is twice the computer, the iMac is the smoothest looking and performing computer Ive ever used and Im one of those dumbasses that actually will take some coolness over substance.

So basically Im down to either this Dell for $1000 which has more gear than Ill need for a while so it should be a good long time before I outgrow it or an iMac for $1200 which isnt as nicely equipped but should still last me several years (plus I can add memory relatively cheap and Ill have a nice big LCD) and is the coolest computer on the market.

BottomFeeder

Once you go Mac, you never go back.

Switched 6 or 7 years ago & I've never looked back. No spy ware, no viruses, no PC hassles. The Mac is easier to use & just more fun.

Jus sayin'

Sami

BottomFeeder wrote: »

Jus sayin'

PC != Windows

Just sayin'

Sherardp

BottomFeeder wrote: »

Once you go Mac, you never go back.

Switched 6 or 7 years ago & I've never looked back. No spy ware, no viruses, no PC hassles. The Mac is easier to use & just more fun.

Jus sayin'

I completely agree, and had the external devices I have worked with MAC I would have surely purchased one. Though I still may consider buying one but as it stands I have to travel with 2 laptops no way Im doing 3. MACS are awesome and indeed fun.

edbert

I have both a Macbook and a pretty awesome PC desktop that I built. Both have their great qualities and work perfectly for the people that use them all the time. My wife primarily uses the Macbook and was able to setup everything on it herself, including setting up the wireless connection with the correct security settings and everything. I primarily use the desktop and have removed anything that I don't need on it and it flys. If you have the knowledge to customize and remove stuff from your PC, edit the registry, etc. your PC can run as quickly as a Mac, whereas the Mac does it all right out of the box. I am considering purchasing OSX to run on the desktop just to see what the performance differences are. Good luck with your purchase and have fun!