XLR versus "good" analog interconnects

Face

I only have experience with BJC and Monoprice single ended cables. BJC are good cables for the money and wouldn't hesitate to choose their analog cables over Monoprice.

TECHNOKID

Where else do you guys suggest to look at to purchase XLR Cables?

Digiflex is a good brand, most of our short cables and tailored made cables are from them. Not too expensive and they have 10 years warranty! I am convinced they must be providers in the US.

http://www.digiflexcables.com/EN/series.htm

RockCable is also a good brand at affordable pricing!

http://www.rock-cable.com/

I found the best way to make sure th cable is of good quality, I look for a good flexible rubber cable and the connector is of most importance such like neutrik etc... When possible, I like to open the connector and look at the quality of the soldering.

Ricardo

mwaarna wrote: »

Monoprice has some cheap XLR cables, but its odd I did not see Male to Male Cables...

Why do you need male to male? As far as I know, outputs require male and inputs require female (or the other way around...too lazy to go look).

Hawkeye

Looking at the links you provided, you need a male/female XLR. I used Mogami Gold Neutric XLR available at The Guitar Center for about $35 each. Not the best in the world, but not the worst either.

Gordon

BlueFox

I started this thread wondering if the 1 meter Kimber Kable "Hero" XLR cables I had previously purchased for my new SACD player would be a waste of money. According to UPS, the SACD player is due to arrive 2/27, and I cannot wait to hook it up with the XLRs and find out. Yabba Dabba Do!!!!

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKHEBAL

mwaarna

Ricardo wrote: »

Why do you need male to male? As far as I know, outputs require male and inputs require female (or the other way around...too lazy to go look).

mwaarna wrote:

I was mistaken in my post above, after looking at pictures of the back of my pre-amp it has binding posts for female connections(i was looking at the 2 channel earlier...)

When i looked at the back of my pre-amp I first saw the 2 XLR Inputs on the far left....
http://www.avmagazine.it/immagini/onkyo1_21_07_08.jpg

But any way.. I am debating on swapping to XLR cables....

heiney9

Hate to break it to you...............but the pre-outs for your receiver to be used as a pre amp are RCA not XLR............so it's a moot point.

Hawkeye

H9, I must need new bifocals! Those XLRs must be outs to amps or do I need trifocals?

Gordon

heiney9

Hawkeye wrote: »

H9, I must need new bifocals! Those XLRs must be outs to amps or do I need trifocals?

Gordon

Perhaps I'm the one that needs them........I admit I am not well versed with HT receivers and the plethora of input/outputs. I didn't see XLR outs to amps, but then again I'm going just by the photo and the small writing is hard to read.

I'm a 2 channel guy and all those connections on the HT receiver make me dizzy .

H9

Ricardo

The 8 right most balanced connections are pre-outs (as it reads )

BlueFox

Okay. UPS just delivered the SACD player. I sure hope it works!!! It looks and feels solid, and weighs 23 lbs. Tonight I have give this thing a 1, maybe 2, bottle of good wine checkout/review. It sure is nice getting this on a Friday that I have off.

One thing I do want to do is compare the XLR output of a regular CD straight to the pre-amp versus the digital output to the Dac1 then to the pre-amp. This should be a simple A/B comparison using the remote for the pre-amp and SACD/CD player.

mwaarna

BlueFox wrote: »

Okay. UPS just delivered the SACD player. I sure hope it works!!! It looks and feels solid, and weighs 23 lbs. Tonight I have give this thing a 1, maybe 2, bottle of good wine checkout/review. It sure is nice getting this on a Friday that I have off.

One thing I do want to do is compare the XLR output of a regular CD straight to the pre-amp versus the digital output to the Dac1 then to the pre-amp. This should be a simple A/B comparison using the remote for the pre-amp and SACD/CD player.

Ever do the comparison?

I am still on the fence whether I should swap to XLR or not...

BlueFox

mwaarna wrote: »

Ever do the comparison?

I am still on the fence whether I should swap to XLR or not...

For SACD, the XLRs are great. There is zero noise between tracks, or in quiet passages, and the SACDs sound great. However, the Dac1 still wins for regular CDs. While CDs do not sound bad, the Dac1 audio is smoother, for lack of a better word.

LarryK

To add more fuel to the fire... I guess it goes without saying, if you have an underpowered Denon receiver with LSi series (15's) using RCA I/C then you go to (let's say) MAC seperates (monoblock, multi-channel, proc) with mid priced balanced from start to finish the 15's will come alive for the first time in their lives. Right? Or is that overkill?

LarryK

To add more fuel to the fire... I guess it goes without saying, if you have an underpowered Denon receiver with LSi series (15's) using RCA I/C then you go to (let's say) MAC seperates (monoblock, multi-channel, proc) with mid priced balanced from start to finish the 15's will come alive for the first time in their lives. Right? Or is that overkill?

Hawkeye

LarryK wrote: »

To add more fuel to the fire... I guess it goes without saying, if you have an underpowered Denon receiver with LSi series (15's) using RCA I/C then you go to (let's say) MAC seperates (monoblock, multi-channel, proc) with mid priced balanced from start to finish the 15's will come alive for the first time in their lives. Right? Or is that overkill?

Hi Larry, No such thing as over kill! I firmly believe that most, not all, people give up on speakers before they pushed them to their limits with front end gear. Frankly, I'd love to hear some 15's hooked up to my rig.

I've just finished using a fairly higher end balanced silver IC. They ran $1400 for 4 1 meter XLR cables. They stank! So just because they are expensive does not make them the best. I put my cheap Mogami $35 pieces back in while I await a copper wire from my dealer. These Mogami wires would not even be considered mid fi and they are some wonderful pieces which I use as my baseline reference. The new copper wires from my dealer will be 1K for the 4 and I do not have high expectations.

Gordon

mantis

Go balanced or go home.

Dan

megasat16

I have balanced amps and preamp in the past (rotel stuff) as well as single ended amps and preamps from many makers. I don't know rotel stuff are truly fully balanced or not. In my rig, I don't hear any difference but my speakers are not that efficient. I think the balance stuff will speak for itself when it comes to power the more efficient speakers above 94db or more. For now, I am happy with my single ended stuff.

comfortablycurt

Would there be any real benefit to using balanced cables in a HT setup? A lot of pre-pro's and multi-ch. power amps have the option of using balanced cables.

From everything I've read though, in order to really receive the benefits of them, every component in the chain must be balanced. I've yet to see a DVD/Blu-ray player, or a multi-ch. SACD player with balanced outputs for each channel.

The benefits would be had by using a balanced digital out I'd imagine...but the majority of players don't even offer that option.

Plus, with Blu-ray, in order to get the lossless soundtracks, you have to use HDMI. Are HDMI cables considered balanced, or does that negate the affects of using balanced cables in between the pre-pro/power amp?

Hawkeye

I can't answer your question about balanced in HT, it is not my thing. I did find that unless ALL of the components are balanced from from to rear, I found a better sound from my gear using RCA as a "tone" control. Now that my system is totally balanced, cables are still a tone control but the added benefit of a lower noise floor and superb channel seperation trumps the tone control.

Unfortunately, I believe a lot of manufacturers are giving the option of using an XLR wire without having a true balanced configuration.

Gordon

disneyjoe7

Interesting subject here, as I own Parasound's Halo A23 amps which can be balanced or not input. I used them as not, ok so is this amp like balance input or not? On my short list a Cary SLP-98L or 98P pre amp it doesn't do balance output. So even if you have this pre amp I can't due balance cables, so why doesn't a high level pre amp do balance out? Is it worth it?

megasat16

I doubt a lot of high end gears (transport, DAC, Pre, amp, etc.) don't have balance outputs and don't need to have balance outputs because a good single ended design will yield very low noise floor with very high SNR + THD to even consider using balance outputs.

For instance, Bob Carver amps have THD+N is 0.5% and it's the highest I've seen for any amps. Most people will not hear THD+N up to 1% so single ended designs works fine for most people even for high end gears. But for Pro Audio, it's different. Balancing signal with ground is preferrable for many reasons. Pro Audio uses a lot higher voltage rating and balance cables are better suited for longer length and noise rejection. The connectors for balance cables are designed to withstand abuse and for long term reliability.

For home audio, where outputs from preamps, DAC or CD players are in the region of 1-2V RMS and cables are usually run for short distances such as 1M or so, the many advantages offer by the balance technology doesn't seem to apply much. Besides, you need to have truly balance design in each components and you need to have all components to have true balance inputs and outputs to take advantage of such gears.

megasat16

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Would there be any real benefit to using balanced cables in a HT setup? A lot of pre-pro's and multi-ch. power amps have the option of using balanced cables.

From everything I've read though, in order to really receive the benefits of them, every component in the chain must be balanced. I've yet to see a DVD/Blu-ray player, or a multi-ch. SACD player with balanced outputs for each channel.

The benefits would be had by using a balanced digital out I'd imagine...but the majority of players don't even offer that option.

Plus, with Blu-ray, in order to get the lossless soundtracks, you have to use HDMI. Are HDMI cables considered balanced, or does that negate the affects of using balanced cables in between the pre-pro/power amp?

I don't think you'll get a real advantage in using balance inputs and outputs for HT. I've tried that with Adcom and Rotel stuff and I don't see any real advantages except they are a little bit quieter when using balance outputs for rotel or adcom but they needs to crank more volume to reach a certain SPL when RCA connections can reach an equal SPL with less cranking in the volume.

I also found out with other better amps and preamps, they are just as quiet and even more quieter than balance design in the Rotel and Adcom equipments. So, for me, no real advantages for HT gears.

But for music, balance may be a little better with Rotel and Adcom gears but well, there are other good single ended stuff that far surpass rotel and adcom balance designs.

One more thing - balance is usually associated with Analog part of Audio and not with Digital part of audio. For Digital outputs, there is no balancing in the design. I haven't read the white paper for the HDMI pin assignment but I doubt it's balance design also. It might be differential signal design for high speed data transfer but it's not the same design or principles as balance circuits in the analog audio.

disneyjoe7

Gee I don't know Parasound Halo A23 cost about $900 new, a Cary SLP-98P pre amp cost about $4000 new. The Halo A23 as balance input the Cary SLP-98P doesn't, must home equipment does do balance. Now on the other hand must pro equipment amps, and pre amps have balance inputs / outputs. Balance is better when equipment is many feet between each other, but is it really needed in home, and if it is really needed why most home equipment doesn't have it?

megasat16

Well, the older stuff (high end or not) doesn't have balance outputs or inputs. But the balance trends started in the late 90s and I guess it's a way for manufacturer to make more money on the same stuff.

Do you need balance for home audio? NO!

Do you want balance feature? Yes, why not if it comes free with your purchase. It's even better if it comes with both balance connectors and RCA connectors (most do).

What happened if it's not truly balanced design? Well, you don't get to hear the benefits of true balance design but again, if your speakers are 90db or less efficient, you'll not very likely to hear any good advantages of the true balance design either.

Audiophiles and alike said True Balance is the way to go? Yeah, may be. So, if they have their hearing checked and they can hear 0.1THD, they may hear the difference.

Hawkeye

As one gentleman here says, "tubes rule" which I agree to a point, I must say a completely balanced system "rules". The only thing better is is tubes and balanced.

Gordon

mwaarna

SO I think I will make the switch to XLR cables..

Sold my Outlaw Audio amp today...

I am looking to Order the BJC XLR cables...

Which cables from BJC should I get, since they offer two different types of XLR Cables..

Belden 1800F Balanced Audio Cable
(AES/EBU, low-capacitance, high-flex cable)
NOTE: pricing is per cable; if you need pairs, you must order two.

Canare L-4E6S Star Quad Balanced Audio Cable
(Higher noise rejection, but with higher capacitance)
NOTE: pricing is per cable; if you need pairs, you must order two.

Canare cables are about 4 dollars more per cable..

disneyjoe7

I'm a fan of Belden wire, so I think that's the way I would go.

mwaarna

I have a SVS Subwoofer... which does not have an XLR Input..

I need to get a XRL to RCA converter..

Where do you guys recommend I get one of those?

I want to use the same output for all my speakers, so the Line Level out is using the same levels...

mwaarna

Ended Up ordering Belden Cables:

8 foot Belden 1800F Balanced Audio Cable
Item# ,
Connectors: XLR Male/XLR Female
Each $32.75 USD 5
Total $163.75 USD