Lsi25 and reciever or amps

eclimax13

well im running lsi25 with an avr 3806 receiver with the subs running off their own power...ive been told i need something better than the denon receiver to run these though i think im running enough to them as is....what do you think?

comfortablycurt

There are several other threads going on here right now with same topic. I'd jump in on one of those ones.

eclimax13

i saw those but they tend to be more about every other lsi other than the lsi25

leroyjr1

You will definately benefit from an external amp.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk. But if we recommend separate amplification for all the other LSI speakers why would the 25's which are the largest of the series be any different?

Look to start at 200wpc @ 8ohms & go up from there.

eclimax13 wrote: »

i saw those but they tend to be more about every other lsi other than the lsi25

eclimax13

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome to Club Polk. But if we recommend separate amplification for all the other LSI speakers why would the 25's which are the largest of the series be any different?

Look to start at 200wpc @ 8ohms & go up from there.

because the subwoofer is driven by its own amp unlike the rest of the series

cfrizz

But it's not powering the rest of the speaker which is also 4ohms. So it still needs amplification.

There are plenty of options for amplification. Do a search here on the forum, as this has been a hot topic lately.

eclimax13

cfrizz wrote: »

But it's not powering the rest of the speaker which is also 4ohms. So it still needs amplification.

There are plenty of options for amplification. Do a search here on the forum, as this has been a hot topic lately.

the avr 3806 can handle 4 ohms...and it doesnt have to drive the woofers like the lsi15's...so they are getting at least 120 watts a channel....prob more being at 4 ohms...and while i agree a separate amplifier is ideal, it isn't necessary especially in my case where i can't even turn the system past -20...(damn apartment living) cant wait to get a house

comfortablycurt

eclimax13 wrote: »

the avr 3806 can handle 4 ohms...and it doesnt have to drive the woofers like the lsi15's...so they are getting at least 120 watts a channel....prob more being at 4 ohms...and while i agree a separate amplifier is ideal, it isn't necessary especially in my case where i can't even turn the system past -20...(damn apartment living) cant wait to get a house

External amplification isn't really about being able to go louder. It's about having cleaner sound. External amps are going to give you a much wider, deeper soundstage because the power they produce is much much better than your AVR's.

eclimax13

^^^very much agree with you but at what point does it become necessary?

Whadyasay

eclimax13 wrote: »

^^^very much agree with you but at what point does it become necessary?

At what point was it necessary to get the LSi25's instead of smaller, more efficient speakers better suited to be powered by just a receiver and a separate sub?

eclimax13

Whadyasay wrote: »

At what point was it necessary to get the LSi25's instead of smaller, more efficient speakers better suited to be powered by just a receiver and a separate sub?

hmmm...you might pass out and hit your head if i told you how much i paid for the all the lsi's....center rears sub and 25's...and as of now it works well with the denon

comfortablycurt

eclimax13 wrote: »

^^^very much agree with you but at what point does it become necessary?

It becomes necessary at the point where you decide you want better sound. LSi's don't run efficiently off of an AVR...your sound quality would be improved immensely by external amplification.

Whadyasay

eclimax13 wrote: »

hmmm...you might pass out and hit your head if i told you how much i paid for the all the lsi's....center rears sub and 25's...and as of now it works well with the denon

Well....if you were offered a nice sports car for an incredibly discounted price, yet you live and work in the city and use public transportation..... :eek:


Seriously though, even at lower to medium volumes, better amplification will give you better definition and separation. At the same time, the LSi's do seem to come into their own once you pass a certain minimum volume threshold (further requiring better amplification). I'd love to get the 25's, but even for my medium-sized room, the 9s may be pushing it in terms of too much speaker for the room. Depending on your room size and volume restrictions, you might be better served with a more compact and efficient setup altogether regardless of a good deal on a bigger system. But if you're happy with how things sound now, that ought to be enough until you might movie into a larger space or are able to get the volume up more. Still....it's kinda' like running a large engine on low revs in just the first two gears.

cfrizz

Then it sounds like you already know the answer since you don't want to spend the money to get what the speakers truly need to sound their best & to operate to their full potential.:rolleyes:

eclimax13 wrote: »

hmmm...you might pass out and hit your head if i told you how much i paid for the all the lsi's....center rears sub and 25's...and as of now it works well with the denon

eclimax13

^^^yes i would get the car...because i could just drive out of the city and go enjoy it

but anyway...the system runs fine right now and sounds good...could it sound better?..of course...do i want to put another $1000 maybe more into it right now being in an apartment...not really..especially while im saving for a house...my whole question actually started from another thread from bluray.com where i was having trouble hearing the difference between dolby digital and true hd..someone suggested i needed more power for my speakers which is not the case...it ended up being my ps3 which for some reason always plays the uncompressed audio no matter which format you choose...not sure why at this point

but just in case i do decide to get an amp...whats a good match for the lsi's?...ive never looked into separates before..

Lowell_M

Krell

eclimax13

cfrizz wrote: »

Then it sounds like you already know the answer since you don't want to spend the money to get what the speakers truly need to sound their best & to operate to their full potential.:rolleyes:

i worked for tweeter but mainly the car audio section...so when i was looking into a future home system, and asking people from both polk and denon, both said they would run fine with each other...and so far it has, i didnt have the money at the time to get anything more,,but that was 3 years ago

cnh

Hey,

If cash is a problem what can you do. I'd love to have a pair of LSI towers? But for now I'm happy with the lower end M70s. But what has been said above is true even for these guys. When I upgraded my power from an Onkyo 90 watt/channel receiver by 50 watts more per channel. The M70s sounded like a brand new speaker.

They started to image like crazy, the soundstage was more impressive. The low end carried more weight. The higher end had more detail, etc.

No need to strap yourself now. That Denon's got pre-outs and you can add power when you've got the cash. You will hear the difference.

cnh

Whadyasay

eclimax13 wrote: »

^^^yes i would get the car...because i could just drive out of the city and go enjoy it

but anyway...the system runs fine right now and sounds good...could it sound better?..of course...do i want to put another $1000 maybe more into it right now being in an apartment...not really..especially while im saving for a house...my whole question actually started from another thread from bluray.com where i was having trouble hearing the difference between dolby digital and true hd..someone suggested i needed more power for my speakers which is not the case...it ended up being my ps3 which for some reason always plays the uncompressed audio no matter which format you choose...not sure why at this point

but just in case i do decide to get an amp...whats a good match for the lsi's?...ive never looked into separates before..

Or you could sell the LSi's, get a more compatible 6-8 ohm satellite speaker package for your receiver/apt, and probably have money to spare. But if you do get an amp, there are a lot of choices out there....used or new Outlaws, Emotivas, Adcoms, Rotels...go for as much power as you can afford. I use a Marantz MM9000 that I got about six years back and it's still going strong. They were discontinued by around then. It's decidedly a warmer-sounding amp, and I prefer it that way for my preferences. I think that Rotels tend to be on the warmer side, whereas Adcoms and Outlaws are a bit brighter.....might be wrong about that. But as long as you start with about 150W @ 8 ohms (185-200W minimum into 4 ohms like the LSi's), you should be good. I set my crossover for the LSi9's @ 60Hz for HT/Movies, and run them full-range for 2-ch music, but it you keep the x-over at 80hz for all of them, it'll be a slightly easier workload for the amp, since the subs are handling al the really low stuff.

In terms of hearing the differences between the DD and TRueHD, I would also agree that getting the right amplification will help because a) you'd be better able to hear the differences above 'bedroom' levels which b) more amp power will help with the LSi's, and c) better highlight the greater depth and detail in the less/un-compressed formats. At fairly low listening levels, things aren't as apparent and mix balances do fall off. Remember that the material is mixed/mastered at 'reference' levels, which are generally much louder than what would be comfortable at home. So if reference level is '0' as calibrated on my system, the loudest I go is usually around -13 to -11...and for action movies or big-time movie soundmixes, that's pretty loud and certainly enough to rattle the walls and get a few complaints from apt neighbors every once and a while.

But aside from the volume and impact, you also get a better sense of the low-level detail and mix balance at that level....think about it as a performance-car engine's overall responsiveness in its 'power zone'. At lower levels of -20 and down, you're not getting as much overall transient responsiveness and balance anyway, especially if you're feeding power-hungry speakers, so yeah, there might not be much point in using more amplification if you won't be turning it up...BUT...more efficient, smaller/faster speakers might give you a better overall mix at those levels. Using the car analogy again...think of a smaller racetrack with a lot of sharp turns and no long straightaways...something like a 550-hp Ford GT may be too much car for it, but a zippy little 150-220hp Lotus would tear it up and whip you around those tight turns with much better agility. Just something to think about. :O

eclimax13

ya..if i wasnt saving for the house, id be all over it...but whats the point of having all this stuff if i cant really use it...the lsi series was a too good to pass up deal that i figured one day i could take advantage of...i was 22 when i bought the setup, dont really want to mention price but lets just say the whole package was between $1499.00 and $1500.01... and to think i used to have this setup in a bedroom at my parents house...now im in a good size apartment but cant turn it up

eclimax13

Whadyasay,

you are completely right and offer a lot of good information that i do understand...i never listen to music..only watch movies through this system..my main problem was with the ps3, it doesnt play anything but uncompressed except when the movie is recorded in pcm...so i was not hearing a difference between dd and ddthd, it would play ddthd no matter which format i picked....i hooked up my sony bdp-bx1 that i use for my bedroom and sure enough, i heard a huge difference between the two mixes...so its something with the ps3, but unfortunately i asked my main question here before experimenting...
i wanted to make sure i wasnt missing something, which i wasnt...but down the line because of the info i have received i will be looking into a separate amp...i did some research and it seems if you want to do 7.1 you have to spend a lot of money

Whadyasay

eclimax13 wrote: »

Whadyasay,

you are completely right and offer a lot of good information that i do understand...i never listen to music..only watch movies through this system..my main problem was with the ps3, it doesnt play anything but uncompressed except when the movie is recorded in pcm...so i was not hearing a difference between dd and ddthd, it would play ddthd no matter which format i picked....i hooked up my sony bdp-bx1 that i use for my bedroom and sure enough, i heard a huge difference between the two mixes...so its something with the ps3, but unfortunately i asked my main question here before experimenting...
i wanted to make sure i wasnt missing something, which i wasnt...but down the line because of the info i have received i will be looking into a separate amp...i did some research and it seems if you want to do 7.1 you have to spend a lot of money

Not necessarily. As far as the 6th and 7th/rear-surrounds...you don't need much there as there's hardly ever a lot of material played through them. You can get a quality pair of small 8-ohm Polks or what have you ad let your receiver power those, and 5-ch separate amps are a lot more plentiful.

eclimax13

^^oh ok..i thought about doing this but didnt know if it would work..what would be the cheapest way out of getting a new amp?...i see a lot of suggestions for $2000 and up amps and i just cant swing that at this point

how bout this one? Rotel RMB-1075

Whadyasay

The 1075 would be a pretty good choice (200w/channel into 4 ohms), and you can find some used ones on Audiogon.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1237677481&/Rotel-RMB-1075-black

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1235939553&/Rotel-RMB-1075--120w--x-5-used

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1235873931&/Rotel-RMB-1075-Black-HT-5-Chan

Sherardp

If you dont want to spend a ton of money go to www.audiogon.com and check out Adcom, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio, Parasound, and get the best amp you can find for an excellent price you can afford.

See this sunfire as for the scratches those can be easily worked out or simple repaint the casing.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1236706671&/Sunfire-Cinema-Grand-Amplifier

comfortablycurt

Sherardp wrote: »

If you dont want to spend a ton of money go to www.audiogon.com and check out Adcom, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio, Parasound, and get the best amp you can find for an excellent price you can afford.

See this sunfire as for the scratches those can be easily worked out or simple repaint the casing.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1236706671&/Sunfire-Cinema-Grand-Amplifier

x2. You can save a ton of money going with used components. Most of the time they are owned by people who really appreciate their systems, so you can be fairly sure they've been well taken care of.

Myself, when I make the jump to external amps, I'm either going to go with Emotiva, or try to find a used Adcom or Rotel. I've still got plenty of time to decide though.

Hobbyguy

I can't wait to see the difference myself. I also wondered why I needed more power for my LSi-15s....my yamaha amp has 140wpc. Seems that in almost every site I have visited a dedicated amp is superior to a receiver. I have come to the conclusion that this is very similar to computer graphics cards. Most motherboards that have integrated graphics are ok...but my computer with 2 Geforce 8800 GTX in SLI mode is better than any integrated video. I am currently looking to purchase a dedicated amp and I think I might purchase 2 (damn this website...I am now an official member of the expensive experiment club). I figure I can then compare them and sell the lesser of the 2 later.

mmadden28

Hobbyguy wrote: »

...I have come to the conclusion that this is very similar to computer graphics cards. Most motherboards that have integrated graphics are ok...but my computer with 2 Geforce 8800 GTX in SLI mode is better than any integrated video....

Nice analogy :cool:

leroyjr1

eclimax13 wrote: »

^^oh ok..i thought about doing this but didnt know if it would work..what would be the cheapest way out of getting a new amp?...i see a lot of suggestions for $2000 and up amps and i just cant swing that at this point

how bout this one? Rotel RMB-1075

Rotel RMB-1075 is a great clean 5 channel amp

cokewithvanilla

go with Emotiva for now. At the price it really cant be beat. A lot of people are making the same decision right now because of the price. They are currently running a sale on the XPA-3... its $499, i dont think you will find better at that price... it will run the fronts and center...

I think you'll find yourself one smilin' motherf**ker............

and you know, your ears are the only thing that can really decide if greater amplification is a benefit. Everyone will tell you, and it seems to be a fact, that better amplification will ALWAYS help. The question is: how much. That's for you to decide, so try the emo, if you don't think its worth it, I'm sure it will retain its value well enough for you to sell it for nearly what you paid.