My lesson in SACD

2

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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited December 2008
    Good answer!
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited December 2008
    danger boy wrote: »
    then why do they release so much of it in only two channel?

    Some of the producers/artists want multiple copyright payments because a hybrid multi-channel SACD has 3 different versions (regular CD, hi-rez 2 channel and hi-rez multi-channel surround) of the recording. The below SACD was not released by Sony in the US for this exact reason....

    586072478_234f9863ae.jpg

    Here's the entire story.
    Sony Music Changes Beyonce SACD to Europe Only Release

    Sony Music has announced that the upcoming Surround Sound Super Audio CD of Dangerously in Love by Beyonce Knowles will not be available in the U.S. market. It will, however, be released in Surround Sound SACD in Europe on May 10th as previously scheduled. (Prior to the announcement from Sony Music, the album had also been scheduled for release in the U.S. in Surround Sound SACD on April 6th.)

    Publishing Issues in the U.S.
    Sony Music officials indicated that the change in plans was due to "publishing issues" encountered in the U.S. market. This involves the question of whether a high resolution audio disc with three separate versions of the same material (in this case CD Stereo, SACD Stereo and SACD Surround Sound) requires the payment of one "mechanical usage fee" or several to the music publisher of the material on the album.

    The question helps to demonstrate why some material has been slow to make it to the new high resolution audio formats such as SACD and DVD-A. With both of the new formats, one might have anywhere from one to five different versions of the music on an album for compatibility and marketing purposes.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited December 2008
    Yep, brilliant move by the music publishers. Instead of getting some money, greed took over and now they get NOTHING!!! :rolleyes:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    snow wrote: »
    Because people watch DVD's in them now days? :p



    REGARDS SNOW

    Not! :rolleyes:
    I don't watch DVDs, don't have a DVD player or even a display in my car. As a matter of fact I remember there being more than just two speakers in every car I have ever been in as far back as I can remember in the 70's.

    I'm with Fongolio. No sense in taking a hard stance for either format (talking Music not HT). If the engineer/artist designs the media to be listened to in surround, then that is what I would like to do. It would then, after all, be what they intended. Of course I also don't see the sense in making a MC mix from a 2 Channel master unless the engineers really know what they are doing and can make it sound good. If it doesn't sound good then don't bother, but there are some really good MC mixs on SACD out there.

    I don't see any reason to hold hard and fast to strictly a 2 channel stereo sound, just because its the norm. Yeah maybe live performances and what not are 'in front', but not all music is vocals and instruments. I like the strictly Stereo recordings (if I didn't I wouldn't be setting up a 2 ch rig), but I also really dig the MC recordings, especially if it throws something different into a familiar recording. Why not. Why does it have to be one way or the other. Can't we all just get along? :p
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,337
    edited December 2008
    mmadden28 wrote: »
    Not! :rolleyes:
    I don't watch DVDs, don't have a DVD player or even a display in my car. As a matter of fact I remember there being more than just two speakers in every car I have ever been in as far back as I can remember in the 70's.

    I'm with Fongolio. No sense in taking a hard stance for either format (talking Music not HT). If the engineer/artist designs the media to be listened to in surround, then that is what I would like to do. It would then, after all, be what they intended. Of course I also don't see the sense in making a MC mix from a 2 Channel master unless the engineers really know what they are doing and can make it sound good. If it doesn't sound good then don't bother, but there are some really good MC mixs on SACD out there.

    I don't see any reason to hold hard and fast to strictly a 2 channel stereo sound, just because its the norm. Yeah maybe live performances and what not are 'in front', but not all music is vocals and instruments. I like the strictly Stereo recordings (if I didn't I wouldn't be setting up a 2 ch rig), but I also really dig the MC recordings, especially if it throws something different into a familiar recording. Why not. Why does it have to be one way or the other. Can't we all just get along? :p
    Agreed there are some SACD'S that sound better in multi channel. For example Dark side of the moon for obvious reasons but most music should IMHO be in two channel



    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited December 2008
    What I like best about MC is feeling that it puts me on stage/studio with the artists, surrounded by the other musicians. Fully immersive.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
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  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2008
    Fongolio wrote: »
    What I like best about MC is feeling that it puts me on stage/studio with the artists, surrounded by the other musicians. Fully immersive.

    BINGO this Man gets a cigar! :D

    For ME that's why I like todays technology with surround/Multi-channel.
    IMHO the sense of "being right there" is what pleases my ear and soul when I listen to my music.
    Hence the reason why I'm a surround sound Guy. :rolleyes:
    My receiver has a a setting "Hall in Vienna" DSP and my classical sounds phenomenal(As does my DCD Cd's)
    DCD recorded their music in old Churches and with this setting it's just like your right there.
    When in a Church/Music Hall or Theater the sound reflects from everywhere...that's what I want to hear when I listen to my music at home.

    It's funny.....I'm old enough to remember when they 1st started surround.
    Matrix surround it was called....just played evenly out of 4 speakers around you. WOW.... how things have progressed in 20yrs!!

    While 2 channel is ok for some.....to me it's like watching a old 1980's TV verses a HD LCD or Plasma TV. (Just personal pref)

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2008
    Fongolio wrote: »
    What I like best about MC is feeling that it puts me on stage/studio with the artists, surrounded by the other musicians. Fully immersive.

    So...when I played in an orchestra (many years ago) I have no recollection of me sitting in the middle of all the other musicians with all of them facing me. As I recall we were all facing in the same direction so that the audience could hear all of the instruments...

    Come to think of it…I don’t recall any of the audience sitting in the middle of the orchestra with all the musicians facing them either…that would have been very weird then…just as it is very weird now (via MC).

    NO THANKS!
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2008
    The worst place to hear a concert or band from is the stage.
    If the best place was in the middle of the musician's then that is where the conducter would stand and do their thing.

    RT1
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,133
    edited December 2008
    Music = 2 channel
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2008
    shack wrote: »
    So...when I played in an orchestra (many years ago) I have no recollection of me sitting in the middle of all the other musicians with all of them facing me. As I recall we were all facing in the same direction so that the audience could hear all of the instruments...

    Come to think of it…I don’t recall any of the audience sitting in the middle of the orchestra with all the musicians facing them either…that would have been very weird then…just as it is very weird now (via MC).

    NO THANKS!
    You were lucky, they usually stuck us(bassists) in the back. :p
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited December 2008
    Drummers ALWAYS go in the back; can't hear a damn thing!
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited December 2008
    Sounds like a love it or hate it thing to me. Maybe it's the diplomat in me that sees and loves both MC and two channel. In the words of the band War...."Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?".
    SDA-1C (full mods)
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited December 2008
    It's like trying to get car patriots to agree. Everyone has their own personal preference.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2008
    Fongolio wrote:
    ...."Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?".

    Because you like MC. Friends don't let friends listen to MC SACD.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2008
    Looks like this is like beating a dead receiver?

    Get it....dead horse....dead....oh forget it! :rolleyes:

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2008
    There comes a time in every man's life when you just have to ride out and kill a Windmill or Dragon or other beast............death to MC SACD

    Viva La 2-Channel, I am I RT1
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited December 2008
    MC SACD is to me like Paypal is to Ted.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited December 2008
    It's all perspective and from mine, MC does not sound like what I would hear at a live venue.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2008
    janmike wrote: »
    It's like trying to get car patriots to agree. Everyone has their own personal preference.

    Must be a Canadian thing or did a block of ice hit you in the head "car patriots" ?????????????????

    Mo, its always a good idea in battle to shoot the dead guy a few more times just for good measure or fun for that matter.......

    RT1
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited December 2008
    I enjoy both. Elliot Sheiner (sp?) mixes do an amazing job of keeping the cohesion of the front soundstage and integrating the surrounds in accent mode or dramatic fashion. No, it doesn't sound like live, unless it's Pink Floyd, David Gilmour or Roger Waters, who still do shows in surround. However, there are other bands that are still releasing discrete 5.1 work, mostly in DVA A. Porcupine Tree is one. While there 2 channel hi-rez is good, it's not nearly as dramatic and satisfying as their 5.1 mixes. Depeche Mode released their back catalog in the last couple of years and their mixes are stellar. They will get your whole room and body feeling the mojo. Not really music, but performance art, The Blue Man Group, is also a ton of fun. If you've got the sub(s) for it, you can get pounded into submission with some of the tracks from "The Complex".

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited December 2008
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    Must be a Canadian thing or did a block of ice hit you in the head "car patriots" ?????????????????

    Mo, its always a good idea in battle to shoot the dead guy a few more times just for good measure or fun for that matter.......

    RT1

    At -40 and my young guy wanting to go sledding all the time, what can I say? Literally, brain freeze. :D
    I learned that from the R&R folks in Dayton, OH.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    shack wrote: »
    So...when I played in an orchestra (many years ago) I have no recollection of me sitting in the middle of all the other musicians with all of them facing me. As I recall we were all facing in the same direction so that the audience could hear all of the instruments...

    Come to think of it…I don’t recall any of the audience sitting in the middle of the orchestra with all the musicians facing them either…that would have been very weird then…just as it is very weird now (via MC).

    NO THANKS!


    So it didn't sound good or different (perspective) being in the middle of the orchestra?
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • mmadden28
    mmadden28 Posts: 4,283
    edited December 2008
    F1nut wrote: »
    It's all perspective and from mine, MC does not sound like what I would hear at a live venue.

    That's just it, why does everybody feel that MC has to sound like a live venue? Why can't it just be a different form of expression, a different way of experiencing the music.
    Perhaps MC does not do justice to the 'live venue' performance for some, but that doesn't mean it has to get knocked every chance somebody gets.
    ____________________
    This post is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects.

    HT:Onkyo 805, Emotiva XPA-5, Mitsu 52" 1080p DLP / polkaudio RTi12, CSIa6, FXi3, uPro4K
    2-chnl : Pio DV-46AV (SACD), Dodd ELP, Emotiva XPA-1s, XPA-2, Odyssey Khartago, LSi9, SDA-SRS 2 :cool:, SB Duet, MSB & Monarchy DACs, Yamaha PX3 TT, SAE Tuner...
    Pool: Atrium 60's/45's
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2008
    janmike wrote: »
    At -40 and my young guy wanting to go sledding all the time, what can I say? Literally, brain freeze. :D

    Well I am sure its fine as long as the sun is out.

    RT1
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2008
    mmadden28 wrote:
    So it didn't sound good or different (perspective) being in the middle of the orchestra?

    No it didn't.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited December 2008
    mmadden28 wrote: »
    Why can't it just be a different form of expression, a different way of experiencing the music.

    What he said.
    SDA-1C (full mods)
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    The Clamp
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    Nakamichi CR7 Cassette Deck
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  • dkg999
    dkg999 Posts: 5,647
    edited December 2008
    janmike wrote: »
    At -40 and my young guy wanting to go sledding all the time, what can I say? Literally, brain freeze. :D
    I learned that from the R&R folks in Dayton, OH.

    By R&R do you mean Reynolds & Reynolds?
    DKG999
    HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED

    Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC
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  • NotaSuv
    NotaSuv Posts: 3,860
    edited December 2008
    I think both have their place..........I enjoy 2 channel for tunes but gotta have my HT when the tube goes on............even DSOM sounds fantastic in plain ole 2 channel with the right set-up...........I listen in 2 channel but it sure sounds like MC at times..
    my 2 cents
    please pass the popcorn..................................
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  • Motzart
    Motzart Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2008
    NotaSuv wrote: »
    I think both have their place..........I enjoy 2 channel for tunes but gotta have my HT when the tube goes on............even DSOM sounds fantastic in plain ole 2 channel with the right set-up...........I listen in 2 channel but it sure sounds like MC at times..
    my 2 cents
    please pass the popcorn..................................

    I resemble that comment!

    Yamaha RX-A710 90Watt 7.1
    Mains: RTi A1's Center: CS150 Sats: RT15i's Sub: Velodyne DPS-10
    Music CD: Sony CDP-CE375 5 Disk
    HD TV: Vizio 42" LCD 1080p E420VO
    Blu-Ray: Sony BDP-S350
    DVD: Sony DVP-NC665P 5 Disk
    AV Rack: Sanus Euro EFAB-II Audio Base x2 EFAS-II Audio Expansion Shelf x4
    Cables Used: Monster Cable HPD Sony HDMI DLCHE18W
    Phones: Sennheiser HD280 Pro
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