The Sony ES Line "Elevated Standard"

Igo

I'm a budget would be audiophile and have been for many years now. I love/am crazy about what we do but I have other interest as well so my budget is X amount. In this, I have been very pleased with the Sony ES/Elevated Standard line of receivers for a long time but I never hear anything here, good or bad about them. Is anybody using these and what are your experiences with them?

shack

I've been a fan of the Sony ES line of CD/SACD players for a long time. Built like tanks and I really do think Sony builds very good CDPs. Their ES receivers are well built but I prefer different brands when it comes to AVRs or amps.

Sherardp

I was a big fan, still own the Sony 7100ES in my living room setup, I have currently switched to Pioneer Elite, and have to say Elite AVRs sound better to me, especially the new models. I would recommend the Elites over the new Sony ES products any day. The 9000/7100 series were last good AVRS to come out of Sony. It seems the new ES machines are not up to par.

dorokusai

The last AVR's with any real backbone was the STR-DAxES series. The later STR-DAxxxxES were junk.

mhardy6647

Over the years, some of the Sony "ES" (and, before that, "Esprit" series) equipment has been very good massmarket gear. If you want to get an idea of some of the finest stuff Sony has produced, peruse http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/sony-main.html

TomBergamini

I bought and then returned a 5300es in a matter of days. This was about 3 weeks ago. My purchase price was crazy low compared to MSR and best street price. What got me second guessing were some forum comments regarding instability of the HDMI signal. Lots of scuttlebut on line about the early units having issues. However, one post in particular, which I now can't find or I'd give you the link was posted by a total audio-holic, who outlined in excruciating detail the problems he had with the unit and Sony Style's lack of support. My unit was refurbished, which made me begin to question if I was getting somebody else's problem. Anyway, I ended up where I started: getting a nice Onkyo unit, a 706 I think (too lazy to walk downstairs and look) which also got rave reviews for quality of the video signal from the professional reviewers (as do the 5300 and 5400 es) but which was a good deal cheaper. At the end of the day, I'm content, though I spent too much time, and if I was honest with myself, was for a time caught in a search for perfect with zero chance to make me any happier. If this is resonating, see the following: http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2006/06/are_you_a_satis.html

danger boy

shack wrote: »

I've been a fan of the Sony ES line of CD/SACD players for a long time. Built like tanks and I really do think Sony builds very good CDPs. Their ES receivers are well built but I prefer different brands when it comes to AVRs or amps.

same here. I have used a few older ES CDP's and they are fine well built units. I don't have any experience with their new line of ES equipment though.

A number of Sony fans here... mostly PS3 though.

BlueFox

Sherardp wrote: »

I was a big fan, still own the Sony 7100ES in my living room setup, ....

I to have the 7100ES. It still is a great AVR, but a bit aged in regard to decoding the latest formats. I am using mine now as a pre-amp going into a Sunfire TGA5400 feeding 4 LSi15s, and an LSiC. The PSW1000 runs off the front pre-amp output. However, with just the 7100ES, the system sounded great before I purchased the Sunfire, but it sounds even better with the amp.

The 7100ES has an iLink input for digital SACD, and the NS9100ES DVD/SACD player has a iLink output, so they "play" great together, for both music and great up-scaled DVD movies.

I have been very happy with these two pieces of ES equipment. They both are well built, and have excellent performance. So I have decided to buy two more pieces of ES equipment.

The new SACD player, and the Blu-Ray player.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665537319
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158BDPS5K/Sony-ES-BDP-S5000ES.html?tp=171

The SACD player will go into the living room stereo to play SACDs I cannot get onto my iPod, and the Blu-Ray will sit on top of the 9100ES, and take over the video side, while the 9100ES will continue for SACD, and provide the CD digital input for the Dac1.

Sherardp

^ +1. I bought the Elite for that reason that it doesnt do HD decoding, and for life of me I couldnt get mine to pass full 1080p for some reason.

Igo

dorokusai wrote: »

The last AVR's with any real backbone was the STR-DAxES series. The later STR-DAxxxxES were junk.

I've really enjoyed my "junk" so far.

BlueFox

Sherardp wrote: »

^ +1. I bought the Elite for that reason that it doesnt do HD decoding, and for life of me I couldnt get mine to pass full 1080p for some reason.

I believe there is a firmware patch for 1080p. However, my 4 year old TV (Hitachi 57" CRT RPT) only does 1080i, so I can live without 1080p, at least for a while. I had the TV calibrated to ISF specs a couple of years ago, and the picture is great, so I will keep it for a few more years. My understanding is 5.1 LPCM from the Blu-Ray player will provide a sonic upgrade over 'regular' DVD audio, so I hope I can go a few years without an upgrade in either TV or pre-amp.

Igo

Thanks for those of you who have shared your experiences here.
Shack, I also have several Sony SACD players
mHardy, that was a very intresting web sight. I've looked for simular for other products but come up with very little. Sansui comes to mind. I book marked this one so I can come back to it.
Tom, Up-converting and HDMI output are two of the biggest reasons I bought my 4300ES. The reveiws were top notch and the proff is in the pudding. Mine does an excellent job. Glad you made a fine choice as well.
Blue Fox, some time in the next week or two I am going to see if I can daisy chain my old ES with my new one through a Toslink connection. I just bought a 40ft optical cable and I want to share my 400 magazine CD player with both units.
Thanks everybody!

dorokusai

Igo wrote: »

I've really enjoyed my "junk" so far.

It's all subjective and I'm just basing that on pretty extensive ES ownership. YMMV.

You're happy and that's all that matters in this hobby.

George Grand

"There you go with them negative waves again Moriarity!"

ND13

George Grand wrote: »

"There you go with them negative waves again Moriarity!"

Just watched that movie the other day, in HD. "Kelly's Heroes"...CLASSIC!!! Sutherland's part was Oscar-worthy, imo.

George Grand

"Sixty feet of bridge I can pick up almost anyplace."

RutgersFTW

I love ES stuff.

Strangely enough, I think I even love their cheap stuff too. After seeing the STR-DG820 get a 5-star rave in What Hi-Fi! and receiving a DOA Onkyo 606 in the mail I decided to give the Sony a chance - curious to see what I could get for $251.99, at least until I got a RMA and a replacement for a humble apartment HT. Running a basic 4.0 setup ATM and I'm very happy. Lots of grunt, a little treble edginess but maybe that will settle out as it burns in, unmolested video from my BD player - the DTS HD MA track on Sunshine was huge. I can only imagine what a monster upgrade the ES series (at twice the weight and four times the power draw) is, but even their cheap stuff is a hell of a lot better than most people give credit for. Much better than the:

Pioneer 908
JVC 5060
Yamaha HTR-6060

Possibly better than:
Panasonic SA-XR57
Onkyo 605
H/K 247 (though the user-unfriendliness of this model is impossible to overstate)

Not embarassed by:
Onkyo 905

(My dad has a shop and I get to try out a lot of gear )

mhardy6647

Igo wrote: »

Thanks for those of you who have shared your experiences here.
Shack, I also have several Sony SACD players
mHardy, that was a very intresting web sight. I've looked for simular for other products but come up with very little. Sansui comes to mind. I book marked this one so I can come back to it.
Tom, Up-converting and HDMI output are two of the biggest reasons I bought my 4300ES. The reveiws were top notch and the proff is in the pudding. Mine does an excellent job. Glad you made a fine choice as well.
Blue Fox, some time in the next week or two I am going to see if I can daisy chain my old ES with my new one through a Toslink connection. I just bought a 40ft optical cable and I want to share my 400 magazine CD player with both units.
Thanks everybody!

The only Sansui fanboy :-) sites I know of are:
www.classicsansui.net
http://www.sansui.us/index.shtml
and (sort of)
http://www.tube-amps.net/index.htm

Igo

My first real stereo was a Sansui.

XJRGUY

dorokusai wrote: »

The last AVR's with any real backbone was the STR-DAxES series. The later STR-DAxxxxES were junk.

I respectfully disagree....The STR-DA777ES had a legendary following along with the performance to back it up. During the period it was considered state of the art. It did however precede the STR-DAxES series and was built like the proverbial tank. It was only discontinued because it was stealing sales away from the 9000 separates of the time (TA-N9000 amp, and processor matched to it.)

I recently retired my 777ES to bedroom duty after replacing it with an even more rare and high spec unit, the STR-DA9000ES which was released with a $4500 price tag a couple years ago and was top of any receiver heap for a long long time.

A pity Sony never released the STR-DA9100ES here. That was an evolutionary machine from the DA9000ES and was simply astounding.

The only decent STR-DAxES of that vintage you mention was the STR-DA5ES (which was even better than its replacement the STR-DA7ES)

No Sony ES receiver as of late has approached the build quality (chassis and guts) of the DA777ES, DA5ES, or DA9000ES other than perhaps the STR-DA7100ES which has also been revered (after firmware updates have been applied)

XJRGUY

Igo wrote: »

My first real stereo was a Sansui.

So was mine but I blew up the receiver by accident. :eek:

dorokusai

XJRGUY wrote: »

I respectfully disagree....The STR-DA777ES had a legendary following along with the performance to back it up. During the period it was considered state of the art. It did however precede the STR-DAxES series and was built like the proverbial tank. It was only discontinued because it was stealing sales away from the 9000 separates of the time (TA-N9000 amp, and processor matched to it.)

I recently retired my 777ES to bedroom duty after replacing it with an even more rare and high spec unit, the STR-DA9000ES which was released with a $4500 price tag a couple years ago and was top of any receiver heap for a long long time.

A pity Sony never released the STR-DA9100ES here. That was an evolutionary machine from the DA9000ES and was simply astounding.

The only decent STR-DAxES of that vintage you mention was the STR-DA5ES (which was even better than its replacement the STR-DA7ES)

No Sony ES receiver as of late has approached the build quality (chassis and guts) of the DA777ES, DA5ES, or DA9000ES other than perhaps the STR-DA7100ES which has also been revered (after firmware updates have been applied)

I wouldn't call the following legendary unless you follow the Agoraquest forum. The same love for SDA exists here, no harm no foul but still localized. There has been alot of gear considered "state of the art" historically. It was at the top of its game, for the moment at best.

The STR-DAxxxES series came before the STR-DAxES series. The STR-DA9000ES isn't rare aside from the 4ohm power rating.

The STR-DA7ES wasn't a replacement for the 5ES, simply the model above it.

I agree. No current unit lives up to the heritage.

reeltrouble1

Although nobody likes their baby called ugly, there are plenty of them to go around.

It is junk, although there is good junk and bad junk, this stuff makes the bad junk pile on CS alone. Typical of companies where the bean counters are in charge.

RT1

jon s

I have to admit to being a long time Sony fan... I have been buying Sony hifi gear since 1969 and have been satisfied with their performance. But I also have to agree with dorokusai that their recent product line (ever since they started using the digital amps) has been pretty lame.

Ever since the the STR-DAx200ES line came out, their performance has been seriously lacking. Sony rates their receivers roughly about 100-120 watts per channel. But they can only provide the said power with only one or two channels being driven. When driving five or seven channels simultaneously, the power output drops precipitously to 30-35 watts, a whopping 6-dB below rated output (just look at any Sony receiver review at any online site (Home Theater or Sound and Vision).

Admittedly, they are not the only CE company with this problem, but they seem to be the worse. Onkyo and Denon receivers are able to deliver close to rated power with all channels driven, why can't the Sonys?

I will still buy some Sony stuff (HDTVs, PS3 or Blu-Ray players, etc) but will stay away from their audio gear. It has been known that Sony now has to cut costs as the Japanese Yen jumps in value to the US Dollar, more so since the Yen has appreciated from 114 yen to a dollar and now roughly 80 yen, making their products more expensive.

I just hope that they do not go along the way like Denon, who moved all manufacturing to China two years ago to cheaper manufacturing and their quality suffered tremendously (anyone with a DVD 2900/3930 series unit can attest to that).

reeltrouble1

errrrrr.............well, Polk's are made in China so I am not blaming them for Sony's debacle, nope., bean counters and lawyers at Sony, too bad for the engineers they really did get SACD right.

RT1

shack

jon s wrote:

I just hope that they do not go along the way like Denon, who moved all manufacturing to China two years ago to cheaper manufacturing and their quality suffered tremendously (anyone with a DVD 2900/3930 series unit can attest to that).

I've never had a single issue with my 2910. I upgraded from a 1910. The overall performance and build quality are just fine IMO. I've owned Denon gear for many years with NO issues with any of it. Sorry to skew your "anyone" example.

XJRGUY

dorokusai wrote: »

I wouldn't call the following legendary unless you follow the Agoraquest forum. The same love for SDA exists here, no harm no foul but still localized. There has been alot of gear considered "state of the art" historically. It was at the top of its game, for the moment at best.

The STR-DAxxxES series came before the STR-DAxES series. The STR-DA9000ES isn't rare aside from the 4ohm power rating.

The STR-DA7ES wasn't a replacement for the 5ES, simply the model above it.

I agree. No current unit lives up to the heritage.

The 777ES had a complete forum dedicated to it for years on an audio forum in Australia and the board was "jumping" during the time of the 777's heydey. A second audio forum (JBM Audio) also was dedicated to the 777ES and tweaking it, etc. That too was a very popular forum dedicated solely to the 777ES and then expanded. The 777ES build quality was superior to receivers at the time. The 777ES stood apart from previous Sony models and blew away its stablemates at the time.

The DA9000ES was/is super rare. I don't know many people who bought the $4500 receiver back in 2004. I believe the low sales figures were the primary reason Sony never brought the 9100ES receiver to the US. FYI the 9000ES and almost all the ES receivers before it had a 4Ohm switch, nothing new on the 9000ES. The difference the 9000ES had over it's ancestors is the S-MASTER Pro digital amplifiers.

The STR-DA7ES was released after the DA5ES and was a replacement as Sony discontinued the 5ES after the 7ES was put into production. It was not part of the lineup that the 5ES was released in.

Sony had the STR-DA5ES and its little brother the STR-DA3ES

They then released the STR-DA7ES and it's little brother the STR-DA4ES replacing the 7ES and 4ES in its lineup for that year.

The DA5ES had superior build quality over the 7ES, even though it was a previous model.

Yes Agoraquest has some die hard Sony believers

ND13

Wow all this debate over Sony receivers.

BlueFox

XJRGUY wrote: »

The DA9000ES was/is super rare. I don't know many people who bought the $4500 receiver back in 2004. I believe the low sales figures were the primary reason Sony never brought the 9100ES receiver to the US. FYI the 9000ES and almost all the ES receivers before it had a 4Ohm switch, nothing new on the 9000ES. The difference the 9000ES had over it's ancestors is the S-MASTER Pro digital amplifiers.

Another possible reason for the 9100ES never appearing is that the 2000ES, 3000ES, and 5000ES digital amps had serious design/manufacturing issues, and it must have cost Sony a ton of money under warrenty expense. Not to mention the bad press, and highly irritated customers. To the best of my knowledge, the 9000ES never had these issues.

These digital amps, when they correctly worked, were great, but finding a working unit was harder than Hades.

They suffered from low power output, excessives hiss, and video dropouts.

I returned three 3000ES units to Crutchfield for these issues, and settled on a Denon 3805 as a replacement. A year later, being a glutton for punishment, I purchased a 5000ES, with my thinking being they must have fixed these issues by now. But no.... I had to send it in twice to get the hiss issue resolved. The hiss was so bad it sounded as if it were raining.

However, once it was fixed it worked great. Clear, pristine sound powering 4 LSi15s and an LSiC.

Finally, I upgraded to the 7100ES, which is rock solid, weighs a ton, is built like a tank, and appears electrically perfect, especially when paired with the NS9100ES DVD/SACD player. Although I am using it as a preamp now, it still sounds great with an external amp.

XJRGUY

BlueFox wrote: »

Another possible reason for the 9100ES never appearing is that the 2000ES, 3000ES, and 5000ES digital amps had serious design/manufacturing issues, and it must have cost Sony a ton of money under warrenty expense. Not to mention the bad press, and highly irritated customers. To the best of my knowledge, the 9000ES never had these issues.

These digital amps, when they correctly worked, were great, but finding a working unit was harder than Hades.

They suffered from low power output, excessives hiss, and video dropouts.

I returned three 3000ES units to Crutchfield for these issues, and settled on a Denon 3805 as a replacement. A year later, being a glutton for punishment, I purchased a 5000ES, with my thinking being they must have fixed these issues by now. But no.... I had to send it in twice to get the hiss issue resolved. The hiss was so bad it sounded as if it were raining.

However, once it was fixed it worked great. Clear, pristine sound powering 4 LSi15s and an LSiC.

Finally, I upgraded to the 7100ES, which is rock solid, weighs a ton, is built like a tank, and appears electrically perfect, especially when paired with the NS9100ES DVD/SACD player. Although I am using it as a preamp now, it still sounds great with an external amp.

Yeah, I can't comment on the non flagship models as I have not had any experience with them. I did hear that the 3000/5000 did have problems.

So far my 9000ES has been bulletproof along with the 777ES I've had for the past 8 years.

The 7100ES you have is a very nice piece. With the latest firmware they are solid units.

I do know that Sony is SORELY lacking a "statement" piece. The X300ES and X400ES line of receivers has been "ho-hum" and not impressive at all. I was reading that some of the current ES line shares power supply and amp section section from the NON ES line. Not sure how accurate that is.

Wish Sony would bring back the 9000ES separates again, but updated for current standards.

XJRGUY

ND13 wrote: »

Wow all this debate over Sony receivers.

Better Sony than Soundesign.