RTi upgrade: 8 to 10.

2michaud

Hey guys,

With the system in my signature, I am looking for less localized bass. The velodyne is awesome, but has trouble reach the middle of the room, which is where I sit when on my computer. What would be the difference in upgrading to RTi10's? My system is 40% video games, and 60% bassy techno music. Would I notice a large loss in midrange? Would the bass from the 10's mix well with the bass from the 12" velodyne?

Thanks:)

nm4710

There are some folks who think that the 10s lack midrange...as an owner of 10s and 8s I don't believe this is true. The 10s are an enormous upgrade, worth every penny IMHO. Midrange and bass are better on the 10s in my opinion. The improvement in bass is simply unfathomable..in fact the 10s dig deeper than some subs. My 10s blend in well with my Kef sealed sub and I am very picky about bass localization. The 8's always left me wanting in that regard...they are now in the bedroom.

leroyjr1

You might want to look into a second subwoofer .

JohnLocke88

nm4710 wrote: »

There are some folks who think that the 10s lack midrange...as an owner of 10s and 8s I don't believe this is true. The 10s are an enormous upgrade, worth every penny IMHO. Midrange and bass are better on the 10s in my opinion. The improvement in bass is simply unfathomable..in fact the 10s dig deeper than some subs. My 10s blend in well with my Kef sealed sub and I am very picky about bass localization. The 8's always left me wanting in that regard...they are now in the bedroom.

I 2nd this. I have 10s 8s and a KEF PSW2150 I use for movies. I actually hooked the 10s and 8s up to an A/B AVR to see if I could tell the difference. Could tell a big difference (test done blind using GF for helper). For most music, I think the 10s dig deep enough on their own, but sometimes, when I want to shake the walls, I crank up the sub too.

Peter Fleming

I recently sold my RTi10's - I hated them!! The midrange is very underwhelming, the highs are too high, and the bass while deep can be booming. Soundstage, also very underwhelming!! RTi10's require good amplification if you want the bass to fire up. The Rti8's are a better music speaker due to better midrange and clarity, a bit lighter in the bass yes but still better. If you want strictly home theatre the RTi10s are okay, but beyond that you can do a lot better for your money. Listen to a set of B&W 684's, about the same price range, and you will understand where I'm coming from. Good luck with your selection.

Kchill

I like the rti10's for a punch of bass when you turn up the bass control on your reciver. Sometimes I have heard the 10's overpower the sub and i run 2 subs with the 10's.

If you can still pick them up under 400 bucks I think its a good upgrade.

2michaud

Thanks for all your input everyone.

I'm seeing some disputing documentation about the driver complement...is the midrange a 6 1/2 or 5 1/4?

They're not exactly under $400 dollars...up here in Canada we don't have reasonably priced speaker retailers. No Fry's, no Tweeter's etc. $1500 for a brand new set at Future Shop, or $750 from a local classified website. I wish I could find them cheaper.

I'm worried I'll pick them up, and find the bass to be boomy and I'll miss the midrange. I really like a lot of bass in my music, but boomy bass tires me out.

ZOOPDOOP22

1 6.5 mid crossed over low at 125 hz high at 2.7 kHz. This is from polks product page

curved

Agree with Lee, buy another sub...

Kchill

Bass is not boomy with me, without a sub I think the bass is tight, not ground shaking but a tight punch.

nm4710

Peter, as the owner of a set of RTi8s and RTi10s, i'm wondering if something was wrong with your 10s or if you had them set up correctly. My 10s have it all over my RTi8's. I've run both off of my emotiva LPA-1 in the same positions... the 10s have much better midrange to me - much more natural, smoother. The 8's woofers are tasked with reproducing the midrange AND bass...and they really don't do a great job of either IMHO. As for the highs being too high well the 8's have the same tweeter...so they should sound pretty similar.

As for comparing the B&Ws, most of us bought a pair of RTi10s for under $600...I've yet to see a comparable pair of B&Ws at that price.

To the OP, I think the 10s would be a stellar upgrade. Please remember that everything is in the tuning and tweaking...so what sounds good for one person might not sound good for another. That said, if you want better bass localization I think the RTi10s will get you there.

Kex

leroyjr1 wrote: »

You might want to look into a second subwoofer .

Although I would expect that I would absolutely love your harman/kardon receiver, I would not expect you to find a big improvement when using it with the RTi10 when compared with the RTi8 with the AVR247 as a power source. It might be a better investment to investigate adding two sealed subwoofers to your system instead. Just a suggestion, to add to the mix.

2michaud

This is some really good input - thanks a bunch all.

I'm not sure what I will decide in the end, I think they might just be too expensive here in Canada for the time being. We're still getting ripped off.

Maybe boxing day will bring me some luck.

daboyz

Kex wrote: »

Although I would expect that I would absolutely love your harman/kardon receiver, I would not expect you to find a big improvement when using it with the RTi10 when compared with the RTi8 with the AVR247 as a power source. It might be a better investment to investigate adding two sealed subwoofers to your system instead. Just a suggestion, to add to the mix.

+1 or +2 whichever.

The HK is a good receiver but you really should have an amp to really see if there is that great of a difference.

leroyjr1

2michaud wrote: »

Hey guys,

With the system in my signature, I am looking for less localized bass. The velodyne is awesome, but has trouble reach the middle of the room, which is where I sit when on my computer. What would be the difference in upgrading to RTi10's? My system is 40% video games, and 60% bassy techno music. Would I notice a large loss in midrange? Would the bass from the 10's mix well with the bass from the 12" velodyne?

Thanks:)

Try different sub placements to see which sounds best. (cheapest fix)

treitz3

Have you considered researching room acoustics and how your system coincides with it?

You may have what you want, yet you may not have it in the best situation. Could you provide pics or a general scenario of the room layout?

Peter Fleming

Hi nm, I know what you're saying but I, and others, tried all the tweeks and stuff and I upgraded all the bits around it until it became obvious the speakers were below par. When you consider I was running an Accuphase amp and Rega 3 TT with Ortofon Rhondo Blue MC and it still sounded crap, I can't imagine how bad they would have sounded with average driving equipment. To complete the test I took my amp and TT to several hi-fi stores and confirmed why the RTi10's were below anything I'd heard in the price range. Price wise, I paid $1730.00 AUD for the RTi10's, I paid $1850.00 AUD for the B&W 683's. The RTi10's were also considered a poor speaker by the hi-fi stores who refused to trade them in. I took a big hit ($) selling them privately but I had to move them on because I had stopped listening music as the thought of more than 20 minutes of high pitched agony and struggling to hear the midrange was more than I could bare. As I said though if they're only for HT then no problem, but in my house the kids use the HT and I listen to music.

nm4710 wrote: »

Peter, as the owner of a set of RTi8s and RTi10s, i'm wondering if something was wrong with your 10s or if you had them set up correctly. My 10s have it all over my RTi8's. I've run both off of my emotiva LPA-1 in the same positions... the 10s have much better midrange to me - much more natural, smoother. The 8's woofers are tasked with reproducing the midrange AND bass...and they really don't do a great job of either IMHO. As for the highs being too high well the 8's have the same tweeter...so they should sound pretty similar.

As for comparing the B&Ws, most of us bought a pair of RTi10s for under $600...I've yet to see a comparable pair of B&Ws at that price.

To the OP, I think the 10s would be a stellar upgrade. Please remember that everything is in the tuning and tweaking...so what sounds good for one person might not sound good for another. That said, if you want better bass localization I think the RTi10s will get you there.

2michaud

Well, I'm starting to think along the lines that the RTi8's are the right speakers for me, I just need to do some tweeking as some of you said.

I'm finally done exams and have some time to spend today. I did a lot of readings on crossover frequencies last night, and contrary to my belief, it does not possibly damage your speakers to set them down to the low end of their range. So I've decided it's stupid to have my RTi'8s at 100hz. -3db limit for these is 40hz. I will likely set them to 60hz to bring some of the bass up front.

Also, I finally have time to snap some pics and would gladly have your input on my placements although space is extremely limited.

nm4710

Peter, I'm sorry you had such bad luck with your RTi10s. Mine sound fantastic - that's not just me but several of my friends who have nice setups (NHT, B&W) as well. That said, I paid less than 1/3rd for my RTi10s of what you did. I'll agree the B&Ws are better speakers...but certainly not worth the difference I would have to pay. My 10s have great midrange, and with my emotiva amp they don't sound bright either. Best of luck with your B&Ws...sounds like you have an awesome setup.

As for the Hifi stores, I suspect their issue was with the polk brand rather than the RTi..I have spent quite a bit of time in australia and polk is not as well known there as I'd expect.

Cheers
NM

2michaud

Alrighty so the pictures of my setup are up on my showcase page. Follow the link in miy signature. I know the picutres are terrible - I need a new camera.

I also adjusted the frequencies today, and I have to say I'm ecstatic with the results! I turned my subwoofer, centre and surrounds off, as I was re-calibrating the levels between my fronts. While I was doing this, I was surprised at how much bass the RTi8's were putting out now.:D

Kex

2michaud wrote: »

... I've decided it's stupid to have my RTi'8s at 100hz. -3db limit for these is 40hz. I will likely set them to 60hz to bring some of the bass up front. ...

Yes, 100Hz does sound wrong. I have RT800 and RT55 speakers, which would be similar to your RTi8. I had the crossover at 60Hz with my h/k, and also with an Emotiva LMC-1 and LPA-1 setup that I tried about a year ago (no improvement compared to the h/k for bass, so I didn't keep them). I actually prefer them as low as 40Hz with my current NAD receiver (which made a very big difference in bass performance BTW), even though that seems a bit low "on paper".

You can play around with the settings on the h/k "on the fly" without exiting the setup menu (there'll be a second or two of delay before playback continues), which can help you decide what you prefer.

Peter Fleming

Hi nm4710, thanks for your thoughts re the B&W's - I'm very happy! Polk speakers are very well regarded and known in Australia. Unfortunately it has become common knowledge that the recent models of Polk speakers are not in the same league as their earlier generation and are not competative in performance to price ratio. Nobody is more dissappointed about that than I am as I had my Monitor 10b's for 25 years and traded down to the RTi10's! Anyhow, I've vented and now in a happy place, cheers.

nm4710 wrote: »

Peter, I'm sorry you had such bad luck with your RTi10s. Mine sound fantastic - that's not just me but several of my friends who have nice setups (NHT, B&W) as well. That said, I paid less than 1/3rd for my RTi10s of what you did. I'll agree the B&Ws are better speakers...but certainly not worth the difference I would have to pay. My 10s have great midrange, and with my emotiva amp they don't sound bright either. Best of luck with your B&Ws...sounds like you have an awesome setup.

As for the Hifi stores, I suspect their issue was with the polk brand rather than the RTi..I have spent quite a bit of time in australia and polk is not as well known there as I'd expect.

Cheers
NM

dorokusai

Fanboy.

2michaud

Well, the flyer for boxing day came out today. I can snag a pair of RTi10's for $500 CAD. I can't believe my luck, online classifieds were the only things sellings RTi's. Where did these come from?? What do you guys think? Good price?

Kex

2michaud wrote: »

Well, the flyer for boxing day came out today. I can snag a pair of RTi10's for $500 CAD. I can't believe my luck, online classifieds were the only things sellings RTi's. Where did these come from?? What do you guys think? Good price?

That's a very good price, but since you already have RTi8, and you may not notice any improvement with your current setup using the RTi10, for all the reasons discussed ... it's really up to you if you think this is the best way to spend your audio dollars. If you have the spare cash and are feeling like you have a severe case of upgraditis, you could always buy them, and by selling either a pair of RTi8 or the new pair of RTi10 in the future would mean it would probably not cost you that much in the end. Shipping those can be expensive and difficult though, especially if you do not have the original packing, so you will have to decide on the likelihood of finding local buyers in a reasonable time.

Otherwise, if the money is burning a hole in your pocket, and you do not buy the RTi10, what else would you like for those same CAD$500?

2michaud

Too true Kex, those are some wise words.

I've been reading some more reviews and discussions on the RTi10's. They're not looking so spectacular as they were a couple days ago. I think I just have upgraditis now, and after a lot of thought and input from you guys, there really is not a lot of benefit. The crossovers seemed to solve most of the problem, and I would not want to give up the fantastic amount of midrange I currently have.

Thanks for the input everyone.

xterra77

2michaud wrote: »

Hey guys,

With the system in my signature, I am looking for less localized bass. The velodyne is awesome, but has trouble reach the middle of the room, which is where I sit when on my computer. What would be the difference in upgrading to RTi10's? My system is 40% video games, and 60% bassy techno music. Would I notice a large loss in midrange? Would the bass from the 10's mix well with the bass from the 12" velodyne?

Thanks:)

Hi
maybe this will help
I upgraded from psb to polkaudio rti10's
My experience was this
Using thre rti10's with a HK230 I was lacking a lot of bass
without turning the bass control way up and they were very bright as to hurting the ears,after buying a velodyne dps12 myself it was a great mix, but still I wanted more.
By reading many many posts here about separate amplification and how it would make a difference,I decided
to go that route.
A local shop in montreal had a sale on an Anthem 3 channel amp 180 x3 so I bought it to power the rti10's and csi5.What a big big difference in mid range and bass,I do not use my sub anymore to listen to music alone.Since them aI bought another amp to power my 2 surrounds and my 2 rears.So if you want the max out of the RTi10's
you will need an amp.