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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    edited February 2018
    Thinking about offset and alignment on tonearms (more to the point, styli) puts me to mind of -- windshield wipers. Windshield wipers have all sorts of clever alignments to let them wipe as much window as possible with as short an arm as
    possible.

    b0n9mbvhcs1a.png


    I've long been fascinated by the wipers on buses that use a pantograph (edit: guess parallelogram is more accurate!) style design to mimic, essentially, an infinitely long pivoted arm. :)

    nmhrz5yspbcq.png


    Good old Garrard, of course, used the pantograph parallelogram concept to engineer the infamous "zero tracking error" pivoted arm. Not a bad idea, but the execution left -- a lot to be desired. :p

    I don't think I have a photo of the one that passed through here :|
    Here's a borrowed image of one, and that engineering marvel arm :p

    ahy1y4a86mmz.png
    94ra92zpy3wh.png

    Just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done.

    :)
  • verbverb Posts: 4,795
    Thank you doc for the historical theory. Yes very interesting. The Garrard mechanism (looks like a 4-bar link) inherently provides more linear travel at the the sylus. Looks expensive.

    As with any system, material cost is weighed against many other attibutes, including performance. I love the wiper analogy, spot on. Being in the automotive business, I've had many debates with wiper system engineers on those very same issues. Can you say Pugh Matrix? :smiley:

    Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Rega RP1 TT, VTL 2.5 Preamplifier, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs DAC, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1 transport, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus Subwoofer, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Project BoxE Bluetooth Streamer, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    edited February 2018
    verb wrote: »
    Thank you doc for the historical theory. Yes very interesting. The Garrard mechanism (looks like a 4-bar link) inherently provides more linear travel at the the sylus. Looks expensive.

    As with any system, material cost is weighed against many other attibutes, including performance. I love the wiper analogy, spot on. Being in the automotive business, I've had many debates with wiper system engineers on those very same issues. Can you say Pugh Matrix? :smiley:

    Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!

    The "zero" turntables (there were a couple-three models over its fairly short lifespan) weren't horrifically expensive -- which was probably part of the problem. That fine British craftsmanship :p doesn't come cheap, and Garrard ('way past its peak by the early 1970s) probably horrifically underinvested at every turn to value engineer the final product.


    The arm as a commercial product had a couple of flaws: it was heavy (despite, if memory serves, being made of magnesium) and (again, if memory serves) the bearings were pretty awful. The former isn't an immense problem (given that there are low compliance cartridges!) but the latter was pretty much, I think, a deal-breaker.

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    verb wrote: »

    ... Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!

    Sung to the tune of California, here I Come!

    (it's a gift)

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    holy fug, have I wandered off-topic.
    This is the post a video thread.
    derp.

    here, without further ado, is...
    a video.

  • dkfreebirddkfreebird Posts: 1,070
    Winter Olympics?
    2 Channel
    Polk 1.2tl's Fully modded with dreadnought
    Rogue Atlas Magnum
    Rogue Magnum 66
    North Star Intenso Dac
    Marantz UD 7007
    Pangea PC
    Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
    Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
    Home theater
    Marantz SR 5009 Sunfire Signature 425x5-B&W Cdm1nt Cdm Center Channel-Rel Strata iii sub
    Backups Polk Monitor 5 peerless,Monitor 7c,2.3tl,SRS2 pin/blade,Polk Crs+ pin/blade with stands.McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 10,219
    ^^^That's really cool, self entertained active dog
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,685
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    He's mastered the art of scratch for sure!!!! B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,685
    Yep, and so did this 12 year old:


    Tony M wrote: »
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    He's mastered the art of scratch for sure!!!! B)

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    ^^^^^^^^
    He's got it mastered too. For sure! What skill. B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,685
    Better than I could ever do, that's for damn sure.
    Tony M wrote: »
    ^^^^^^^^
    He's got it mastered too. For sure! What skill. B)

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,685
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,680
    Learning to scratch, start out small

    MrBigBlueLight
    Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
    Shifting to Plan B+
  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,680
    We've all heard of 8-Track, but 8ban ?

    MrBigBlueLight
    Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
    Shifting to Plan B+
  • verbverb Posts: 4,795
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Rega RP1 TT, VTL 2.5 Preamplifier, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs DAC, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Marantz CD-1 transport, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus Subwoofer, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Project BoxE Bluetooth Streamer, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,263
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    edited March 2018
    Don't you start harpin' on me...
    ;)





    Truth is Stranger than Fiction aside: These two young ladies played a concert at our erstwhile church in MA a few years back. :|
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    Porcupine Tree... B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    Loggins and Messina / Angry Eyes B)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    Tony M wrote: »
    Loggins and Messina / Angry Eyes B)

    That is such a great song. I have to see if I have it on licorice pizza here someplace (I think I do...).
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    edited March 2018
    I know I do. I played the heck out of that song after I got the record. I thought I had a great sounding system back then.

    What little did I know how much better a system could sound!

    I knew there was a lot more $$$$$ stereo stuff for sale but it was ALL out of my reach then. Fisher stereo...Fisher speakers. I quickly became aware of quality sound when I heard a set of ESS AMT1B's. My world of audio appreciation changed that day! My Fisher receiver, cassette deck and TT were pretty darn good. They served me well for years and years. B) I still have the TT and the custom 6' tall "Clear Fir" rack I built for the system. B)

    PS. I now own and have for 30 years, that exact same set of ESS AMT1B's. The man who owned them gave them to me after his Brother had a party and the woofers and passives got damaged. I bought new woofers and passives from ESS. 350.00 back then.

    My wife, a long time ago, has laid claim to them should we ever separate. :s
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,685
    @nbrowser I liked this video:

    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    a little cognitive dissonance for a Friday afternoon :|

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
    This -- thought I -- was deligtfully meta.

    Finestkind -- "John Barleycorn Deconstructed"
    the music starts at about 1'30" if you want to skip the prattle.

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,633
  • Tony MTony M Posts: 7,168
    Some people just don't have common sense when it comes to speaker orientations. :s
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,680
    He's probably just trying to go for the Cerwin Vega sound.
    MrBigBlueLight
    Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
    Shifting to Plan B+
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,451
    edited March 2018
    Accidentally making fun of me, I see... :lol:
    ja0ppwcawzhc.jpg
    However I guess that’s not quite as bad, not like it’s close closed in both sides
    Micah
    music on vinyl; https://www.discogs.com/user/mlistens03/collection
    Technics SL3200 turntable; Shure M97xE cart; Hagerman Audio Labs Bugle 2; NAD C352 integrated; KEF Q150 speakers; Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer; home-built stands, generic cables but will upgrade soon...

    desktop; Lenovo G50 running Win10, Yamaha RX-v665 AVR, JBL e30 headphones
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
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