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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    edited January 2018
    Similar to many of us (I expect), I have a flashbulb memory of the Challenger explosion. My wife called me on the phone (I was in grad school, in the lab) and told me about it moments after it happened.

    I have a similar flashbulb memory of the Columbia break-up. We'd just gotten out of a School Board budget meeting (I was on the board in our old town in MA in those days). I got in the car to drive home, and heard on the radio that they'd lost contact with the Columbia during its descent. It wasn't too long before we all saw video of it disintegrating.

    :(

    Interesting space shuttle aside. Our daughter's father-in-law (or our son-in-law's father, if you prefer) flew as payload specialist on a space shuttle mission in the late 1990s -- aboard the Columbia.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I just have a family member that told me in person his feelings about seeing that accidental tragedy. I'm not DEEPLY offended at all. Just at the people who thought that cover is clever when they made it. Warped sense of humor in my mind, that's all!

    Is that a real album cover? It looks to be.

    Yes, it is a real album cover. Although I don't think it sold too many copies. :p

    Hmmm, I'm not sure how the first part of your post is different from the second part of your post. :D

    Will you elaborate on the similarities?

    I don't see any after reading it over.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 5,580
    Tony M wrote: »
    Will you elaborate on the similarities?

    I don't see any after reading it over.

    Let's just say that you and whomever you were referring to seem to be "on the same side of the fence" as to whether it was funny or offensive. Remember, your first comment was "That's just wrong".

    So maybe you could explain what you meant by saying it was wrong? Was it inaccurate? Inappropriate? Immoral? Objectionable? In poor taste? Not funny? Ignorant? Insensitive?
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,857
    Viking64 wrote: »
    It inspired this awesome album cover!

    kxf4o326hnau.jpg

    Let's rephrase this... The above picture is in poor taste.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    FestYboy wrote: »
    Viking64 wrote: »
    It inspired this awesome album cover!

    kxf4o326hnau.jpg

    Let's rephrase this... The above picture is in poor taste.

    Never heard of Feederz before but in looking em up they’re a bunch of anarchists. Typical from the punk rock genre at that time. Exploitive? Sure. Attention getting? Sure. Based on their sales it didn’t work out so good for them. But all that is history. Hard to get affected by a marketing strategy that failed so long ago.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    edited January 2018
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    Will you elaborate on the similarities?

    I don't see any after reading it over.

    Let's just say that you and whomever you were referring to seem to be "on the same side of the fence" as to whether it was funny or offensive. Remember, your first comment was "That's just wrong".

    So maybe you could explain what you meant by saying it was wrong? Was it inaccurate? Inappropriate? Immoral? Objectionable? In poor taste? Not funny? Ignorant? Insensitive?

    A family member who was almost underneath it is a whomever? Come on.
    He has a BAD memory of the event, I don't. My brother is 6'2" and 225lbs. and he was shaken. He might be oversensitive because he sent a guy to the hospital for trying to repeatedly take his Dorito bag at a party. People were concerned the guy might not live, but he did.
    We're not really SUPER sensitive but are on the same side as far as this goes, we see the album cover as a DISASTER and a loss of LIVES.

    You think the cover is Awesome. :#

    You seem to see a person's ( Teacher ) or people's ( The other Astronauts, of which I wanted to aspire to be when I was a kid, so much so, my dad brought me a model of one of the first manned rockets while I healed in the hospital after an operation ) death/s as insignificant and you actually applaud an event for an awsome ( your own word ) tasteless chance to post a play on words on an album cover concerning the death of a teacher.

    I don't like the Cover, but I didn't see it live, nor do I have a relative that died in that moment the picture was taken.
    So I'm not as sensitive as those that did have a relative die in it or witnessed it live.

    But I find the deaths of people sad unless the people who die committed a murder or other cruel action/s themselves by intentional actions and are therefore executed or shot by police.
    War is whole different debate.

    I guess if we drove by an accident and saw death, we'd see a different opinion of the scene and have obvious different feelings about the deceased.

    Let's leave it at that, OK? ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 5,580
    I used the word "whomever" because you were somewhat vague as to who it was, which is fine.

    "I just have a family member that told me in person his feelings about seeing that accidental tragedy." Let's face it, that was a poorly constructed sentence and it didn't convey what you apparently intended. That's fine too.

    You read WAY TOO MUCH into all of this. Let's leave it at THAT instead.

  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    Intermission.
    wgr7v73k7h4h.png
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    edited January 2018
    verb wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    My brother went to the viewing area that day. He has that terrible memory of seeing it live in person. That was a bad thing that NASA let the world view it live also on every TV. Schools were letting all students watch it too.

    I know it was a huge shock, but this special just on TV the other night had a man that said he recommended to them NOT to launch. The higher-ups ignored his request!

    Just a simple o-ring!!! Interesting the new design has features that detect leaks, unlike the previous one.
    mit898mqs1qm.png

    This copy has my post in the show previous quotes. I copied the wrong post but..anyway, it's there about my Brother. This was the second response to your pic. of that album cover. You must have forgot or didn't read it fully as many people don't seem to do anymore.

    I'm good now. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    I did read the entire post @tonyb about your brother and I'm with ya. I too was touched after this event. I remember President Reagan's speech afterwards, it will always be with me. I was studying to be an aerospace engineer at the time so it hit me even more.

    I know that @Viking64 meant no offense. He's got a great sense of humor and I like reading his posts. I also know he can take it as he surely dishes it out!

    I'm happy that you're good, I do appreciate your comments on CP!
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    And yes, who else but Drew Barrymore for a little time out!
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    edited January 2018
    Thanks, @verb.

    I started to get @Viking64's sense of humor after a couple of posts. I saw he really meant no harm. So I relaxed.

    It was almost POPCORN time again. :p

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    We love you @Tony M !
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    :DB)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,989
    edited February 2018
    I SUCK at the whole video thing, but I went ahead and put three snippets from the Sunshine Music Fest on Youtube. It was very cold, but the music and bourbon were excellent.

    Medeski Martin & Wood


    Tedeschi Trucks Band


    TTB w/ Jorma & Jack

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    Just heard this tonight on VPR's All the Traditions -- thought it was hysterical. YMMV, though, of course :|

  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    edited February 2018
    That was Awesome Scientific logical implementation on designing and playing a particular vinyl record recording at its finest! They might be on to something! That's thinking out of the box!
    This "Calvin and Hobbs" cartoon immediately came to my mind!

    r1p944e10vcz.jpg

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    ^^^ and that cartoon explains the root of "inner groove distortion" :)
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 9,820
    Reminds me of DJing with strictly vinyl when I was first starting. When you're mixing out the first track into the other and beatmatching, the BPM on the outgoing track increases slightly as the needle is reaching the grooves closer to the label, so you have to account for that and accommodate with subtle pitch adjustment sometimes. :)
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    edited February 2018
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    ^^^ and that cartoon explains the root of "inner groove distortion" :)

    Clipdat wrote: »
    Reminds me of DJing with strictly vinyl when I was first starting. When you're mixing out the first track into the other and beatmatching, the BPM on the outgoing track increases slightly as the needle is reaching the grooves closer to the label, so you have to account for that and accommodate with subtle pitch adjustment sometimes. :)

    Interesting subject for a TT neophyte. Makes sense as the linear velocity would double along the inner grooves since the radius is halved, at constant rpm.

    How do TT's compensate for this (auto pitch)? Or do the actual records (recording speed) varies?

    Just throwing some thoughts out there, cause I'm intrigued.



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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    Since the record cutting lathe and the playback turntable spin at the same angular velocity, it all comes out in the wash, so to speak. The change in linear velocity, however and the decreasing radius of curvature put extreme demands on the tracking system towards the end of the record side... and that's the (not at all uncommon) audible consequence.



  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    Ahhh, makes sense. Thanks doc. Playback process emulates the manufacturing process.

    To the other point of tracking, interesting that the tonearm pivot seems to be placed at varying distances (perpendicular radii) from the platter center. Is there a sweet spot for the tonearm pivot? Mass aside, seems like tonearm length is also a factor.

    Geometrically I would think there is an optimized location.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 9,859
    If they told us how it works, they'd have to k**l us. :(:#
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    verb wrote: »
    Ahhh, makes sense. Thanks doc. Playback process emulates the manufacturing process.

    To the other point of tracking, interesting that the tonearm pivot seems to be placed at varying distances (perpendicular radii) from the platter center. Is there a sweet spot for the tonearm pivot? Mass aside, seems like tonearm length is also a factor.

    Geometrically I would think there is an optimized location.


    You are correct in principle -- in practice, there is an alignment process to get the stylus as tangent as possible to the groove across as much of the playing surface of the record as possible.

    Since with a swingin' arm this represents a compromise (there will always be tracking error in terms of tangency, except at one, or more likely two points across the record's surface) - there are multiple "standards" (i.e., no standard ;) ) and the different alignment strategies/schemes are debated and defended with religious fervor by the vinylista.

    So it goes.

    You can get alignment protractors ranging from internet downloads to expensive store-bought gizmos.

    Have you spent some quality time at www.vinylengine.com or Steve Hoffman's forums, e.g.? Fun to be had, boy howdy :)

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    edited February 2018
    Thinking about offset and alignment on tonearms (more to the point, styli) puts me to mind of -- windshield wipers. Windshield wipers have all sorts of clever alignments to let them wipe as much window as possible with as short an arm as
    possible.

    b0n9mbvhcs1a.png


    I've long been fascinated by the wipers on buses that use a pantograph (edit: guess parallelogram is more accurate!) style design to mimic, essentially, an infinitely long pivoted arm. :)

    nmhrz5yspbcq.png


    Good old Garrard, of course, used the pantograph parallelogram concept to engineer the infamous "zero tracking error" pivoted arm. Not a bad idea, but the execution left -- a lot to be desired. :p

    I don't think I have a photo of the one that passed through here :|
    Here's a borrowed image of one, and that engineering marvel arm :p

    ahy1y4a86mmz.png
    94ra92zpy3wh.png

    Just because something can be done does not mean that it should be done.

    :)
  • verb
    verb Posts: 9,911
    Thank you doc for the historical theory. Yes very interesting. The Garrard mechanism (looks like a 4-bar link) inherently provides more linear travel at the the sylus. Looks expensive.

    As with any system, material cost is weighed against many other attibutes, including performance. I love the wiper analogy, spot on. Being in the automotive business, I've had many debates with wiper system engineers on those very same issues. Can you say Pugh Matrix? :smiley:

    Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    edited February 2018
    verb wrote: »
    Thank you doc for the historical theory. Yes very interesting. The Garrard mechanism (looks like a 4-bar link) inherently provides more linear travel at the the sylus. Looks expensive.

    As with any system, material cost is weighed against many other attibutes, including performance. I love the wiper analogy, spot on. Being in the automotive business, I've had many debates with wiper system engineers on those very same issues. Can you say Pugh Matrix? :smiley:

    Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!

    The "zero" turntables (there were a couple-three models over its fairly short lifespan) weren't horrifically expensive -- which was probably part of the problem. That fine British craftsmanship :p doesn't come cheap, and Garrard ('way past its peak by the early 1970s) probably horrifically underinvested at every turn to value engineer the final product.


    The arm as a commercial product had a couple of flaws: it was heavy (despite, if memory serves, being made of magnesium) and (again, if memory serves) the bearings were pretty awful. The former isn't an immense problem (given that there are low compliance cartridges!) but the latter was pretty much, I think, a deal-breaker.

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    verb wrote: »

    ... Vinyl engine here I go! Further down the rabbit hole!

    Sung to the tune of California, here I Come!

    (it's a gift)

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 27,910
    holy fug, have I wandered off-topic.
    This is the post a video thread.
    derp.

    here, without further ado, is...
    a video.