Eight grand for cables?

NJPOLKER

I did not expect a cable debate when I started this thread.
My first thought when I saw the cables shown in the OP was what the hell is in that box? My second thought was I drive around in a Acura TL which is a nice car and worth only 3 to 4 times the cost of those cables.
HHHMMMMMMMMM High end/high cost cables must add to the performance or they would not sell or have a high demand which they do. The majority of cables I "look at" that are for sale offer the option of try them out and return if not impressed, or something like that. I am a believer and I have not even heard them yet. Facts are facts and you can't or should not argue them or you'll look ignorant.
Drew

snow

kolyan2k wrote: »

This stupid argument has been going on in this forum for years. and there was an article with bunch of people testing high end cables vs steel coat hangers and lots of people mistaken coat hangers for high end gear including the writer i believe.

Monster Cables are alive and rich because of their ignorant customers who know pretty much nothing about cables, audio gear and/or physics.

And as far as my system goes, I have LSi9s (on Outlaw monoblocks),LSiFXs (on HTR-6090), LSIc (on Monoblock), and dual Martin Logan Dynamo subs.

I thought that might get your attention As many have said here go either borrow or purchase a nice set of speaker cables with high quality connections and quality shielding, listen to them versus the coat hangers and if you still cant tell a difference then sell all your audio gear and buy a wally world receiver and a set of pro speakers so it plays loud and you should be happy. Also just because you read something online doesnt make it so.



REGARDS SNOW

Face

NJPOLKER wrote: »

HHHMMMMMMMMM High end/high cost cables must add to the performance or they would not sell or have a high demand which they do. The majority of cables I "look at" that are for sale offer the option of try them out and return if not impressed, or something like that. I am a believer and I have not even heard them yet.

Exactly. Why would any cable companies offer a 30 day money back guarantee if all cables sounded the same? If that was the case, we would see many more fly by night operations and companies like MIT who have been around for 25 years wouldn't even exist.

kolyan2k

Face wrote: »

Exactly. Why would any cable companies offer a 30 day money back guarantee if all cables sounded the same? If that was the case, we would see many more fly by night operations and companies like MIT who have been around for 25 years wouldn't even exist.

placebo effect. The only difference in cable I can believe in are interconnects because they require proper shielding. power cables and speaker cables DONT need shielding and MUST meet the specs. If you use shield and/or bigger AWG it will not make any difference. Same goes for twisted wiring. Its required where it IS required, and no where else. People MUCH smarter then all positing here made those specs. and there are formulas that calculate all the numbers.

heiney9

kolyan2k wrote: »

placebo effect. The only difference in cable I can believe in are interconnects because they require proper shielding. power cables and speaker cables DONT need shielding and MUST meet the specs. If you use shield and/or bigger AWG it will not make any difference. Same goes for twisted wiring. Its required where it IS required, and no where else. People MUCH smarter then all positing here made those specs. and there are formulas that calculate all the numbers.

Thanks for the entertainment. I've had a very hearty chuckle reading your posts. You obviously don't have any experience in this hobby; I mean none. Hopefully one day you'll actually loose your bias and closed mindedness and venture out to actually let your ears decide then and only then will you even begin to understand.

Good luck to you. Perhaps it's better not to know anything at all about this hobby. Makes things easier and then you can continue to make really inaccurate generalizations like you do.

H9

ben62670

Hey he is good for a laugh:D He still hasn't listed any of the cables he has tried to back up his theory. I remember when I was ignorantly bliss... Seriously kolyan2k try some used AQ type 4's, and if you don't hear a difference turn around, and sell them. No loss in coin, and then you have something to argue with instead of just spewing cables don't make a difference.
Ben

kolyan2k

Keiko wrote: »

Make up your mind...I don't have the experience as many of these other people have here. I am humble enough to admit that. But you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

^ you might not have any experience/knowledge, but i do. I have a degree in networks (which has alot to do with noise in wires), and I am a licensed electrician.

I am talking FACTS. Its a FACT that speaker wire DO NOT need to be twisted and/or shielded unless running near fluorescent fixtures which generate noise.
It is also a FACT that if your equipment is rated to pull maximum 20 AMPs and you install 40 AMP circuit (or double 20s) with some 8-2/8-3 cable those "extra" amps and gauge will give you absolutely 0

I am using a separate 15AMP circuit for all my components and subs are running on living room 15AMP circuit with all my outlets and lights. I am using Outlaw interconnects an Home Depot speaker wires.

Ricardo

Watch out guys...he's a licensed electrician....with a degree in networks.....he must know what he's talking about.....

Can I have an autograph?

ben62670

kolyan2k wrote: »

^ you might not have any experience/knowledge, but i do. I have a degree in networks (which has alot to do with noise in wires), and I am a licensed electrician.

I am talking FACTS. Its a FACT that speaker wire DO NOT need to be twisted and/or shielded unless running near fluorescent fixtures which generate noise.
It is also a FACT that if your equipment is rated to pull maximum 20 AMPs and you install 40 AMP circuit (or double 20s) with some 8-2/8-3 cable those "extra" amps and gauge will give you absolutely 0

I am using a separate 15AMP circuit for all my components and subs are running on living room 15AMP circuit with all my outlets and lights. I am using Outlaw interconnects an Home Depot speaker wires.

Thanks for another laugh. You are so much like I was. Electricain... Me too, Networking engineer... Me too. Owner of a computer repair, and networking company... just me? I believed all the stuff you are saying, but I opened my mind a little, and tried some cables out. Well I had to eat my words. You will to if you ever give it a chance. Really try out some used AQ type 4's. They are less than $80 used, and if you don't like them sell them. Then at least you have a leg to stand on besides I am so much more educated than you are. A 60hz line voltage does not care what it is traveling down. Data is either a 1, or a 0 when it comes to computers... Analog is a whole different game. Construction, material, and dielectric have a lot to do with it. Where are you located? Maybe someone can bring some cables over. Thats what it took fop me.
Ben

kolyan2k

ben62670 wrote: »

Thanks for another laugh. You are so much like I was. Electricain... Me too, Networking engineer... Me too. Owner of a computer repair, and networking company... just me? I believed all the stuff you are saying, but I opened my mind a little, and tried some cables out. Well I had to eat my words. You will to if you ever give it a chance. Really try out some used AQ type 4's. They are less than $80 used, and if you don't like them sell them. Then at least you have a leg to stand on besides I am so much more educated than you are. A 60hz line voltage does not care what it is traveling down. Data is either a 1, or a 0 when it comes to computers... Analog is a whole different game. Construction, material, and dielectric have a lot to do with it. Where are you located? Maybe someone can bring some cables over. Thats what it took fop me.
Ben

I wish I had time to test the cables out, but I dont. I am sure lots of people here can argue with you about data and power cables.....to me its the same with speaker cables.

Me and my buddy did A//B comparison of OPPO CD Player ($150) and Jolidia ($900), and both of us were 50% wrong naming which one is playing, so I am pretty sure that 99% I will not tell the difference in speaker wire.

I dont rule out the possibility that some of you have GIFT in hearing abilities...I guess I dont.

MillerLiteScott

I spent more money on my MIT speaker interfaces than I did on my tricked out 2B's with the 4.1 TL modification and I am glad I did.

Very worth while investment. If you want you system to sound better call Joe Abrams.

Scott

McLoki

kolyan2k wrote: »

I wish I had time to test the cables out, but I dont. I am sure lots of people here can argue with you about data and power cables.....to me its the same with speaker cables.

Me and my buddy did A//B comparison of OPPO CD Player ($150) and Jolidia ($900), and both of us were 50% wrong naming which one is playing, so I am pretty sure that 99% I will not tell the difference in speaker wire.

I dont rule out the possibility that some of you have GIFT in hearing abilities...I guess I dont.

At our last get together, with some cables it was very hard to tell what CD player was playing - with other cables it was very easy to tell. Really your best bet is to just join in with any local get togethers you may have available to you in your area. (I drove 2.5 hours to get to the last one and it was well worth it)

If they say they hear something and you don't, just smile and have another beer or some more food. At the end of the day though, you may just come away surprised at what you find...

F1nut

Ricardo wrote: »

Watch out guys...he's a licensed electrician....with a degree in networks.....he must know what he's talking about.....

Can I have an autograph?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Keiko wrote: »

I'm a **** star. Want mine?

Ben's a Rocket Scientist. H9 works for the CIA. Joe bagged a Bigfoot once and F1 is the President.

Double WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

NJPOLKER

Lasareath wrote: »

Well, I may have to Sell some stuff. We just found our dream house. Talking to the Mortgage Broker tomorrow. The basement is all mine, it's like 28' x 26' with 8'-6" ceilings. So I will need to make up a couple of rooms for my system(s)

Congratulations Sal or should I say good luck!! I am sending you a PM.
Drew

snow

kolyan2k wrote: »

placebo effect. The only difference in cable I can believe in are interconnects because they require proper shielding. power cables and speaker cables DONT need shielding and MUST meet the specs. If you use shield and/or bigger AWG it will not make any difference. Same goes for twisted wiring. Its required where it IS required, and no where else. People MUCH smarter then all positing here made those specs. and there are formulas that calculate all the numbers.

Wow you sound like BAF's big brother, same ignorance, assuming all kinds of things without any knowledge or experience. Power cables do need shielding for several reasons not the least being safety :rolleyes: I suppose you have never heard of the skin effect as far as speaker cables go either with Smaller and larger gauge speaker cable? Perhaps you would like to give us a scientific explanation why IC's need shielding to preserve the audio signal and speaker cables dont since you are so much smarter than the rest of us?

You have absolutley no idea what my IQ is nor anyone elses here nor our educational achievements. There are people here with PHD's and very high IQ levels both, mine happens to be 166 that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee

In the real world common sense is not very common but is worth every bit as much as a good education is and then some as far as im concerned and you lack even that.



REGARDS SNOW

kolyan2k

snow wrote: »

Wow you sound like BAF's big brother, same ignorance, assuming all kinds of things without any knowledge or experience. Power cables do need shielding for several reasons not the least being safety :rolleyes: I suppose you have never heard of the skin effect as far as speaker cables go either with Smaller and larger gauge speaker cable? Perhaps you would like to give us a scientific explanation why IC's need shielding to preserve the audio signal and speaker cables dont since you are so much smarter than the rest of us?

You have absolutley no idea what my IQ is nor anyone elses here nor our educational achievements. There are people here with PHD's and very high IQ levels both, mine happens to be 166 that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee

In the real world common sense is not very common but is worth every bit as much as a good education is and then some as far as im concerned and you lack even that.



REGARDS SNOW

Speaker cables have very low impedance and are driven at pretty high current thats why they dont suffer from interference and therefore dont require shielding (in most cases)

More then happy to give you more lessons

snow

kolyan2k wrote: »

Speaker cables have very low impedance and are driven at pretty high current thats why they dont suffer from interference and therefore dont require shielding (in most cases)

More then happy to give you more lessons

It is my understanding that by using a shielded cable you lower the inductance. Low inductance reduces the cable reactance at high frequencies which affects how the treble sounds to your ears, so if one has proper shielding and the capacitance is low enough it will be an improvement over non shielded speaker cable and certainly coat hanger wire

Looking forward to a lesson on why the type and quality of speaker cable connector doesnt matter either.



REGARDS SNOW

heiney9

kolyan2k wrote: »

More then happy to give you more lessons

With the lessons and misinformation you are teaching I wouldn't listen to your lesson if YOU sent me money.

If you haven't tried several different types/designs and price points of speaker cables and interconnects then you should stifle.

H9

treitz3

I have to admit. This is pretty entertaining. Pathetic, but entertaining none the less.

heiney9

I'll try to steer this back on topic. I would have no problem paying $8K for cables if it was the same percentage of my budget as cables are now for my mid-fi system.

I've been shown in almost every instance there are differences in cables and the synergy associated with the gear you are running. Heard it very distinctly yesterday at our meet. So I have no doubt regardless of price that in someones system somewhere the $8K cables will make a difference.

H9

Face

kolyan2k wrote: »

I wish I had time to test the cables out, but I dont. I am sure lots of people here can argue with you about data and power cables.....to me its the same with speaker cables.

So you're saying you don't have time to listen to your rig?

Me and my buddy did A//B comparison of OPPO CD Player ($150) and Jolidia ($900), and both of us were 50% wrong naming which one is playing, so I am pretty sure that 99% I will not tell the difference in speaker wire.

IMO, price doesn't mean everything as far as the sound of a CDP. I've been disappointed by players at the $1,000 mark and pleasantly surprised by players that were less than $500.

The same goes for speaker cables, just because it costs more doesn't mean it's going to sound better in your system. But to say they all sound the same is ignorant and just shows you haven't experimented for yourself. This is coming from someone who also has a degree in computer service technology and networking. :rolleyes:

hearingimpared

kolyan2k wrote: »

Me and my buddy did A//B comparison of OPPO CD Player ($150) and Jolidia ($900), and both of us were 50% wrong naming which one is playing, so I am pretty sure that 99% I will not tell the difference in speaker wire.

That's because you were using **** ICs.:D

megasat16

Ok Guys! Enough of this Cable Mambo Jambo!

Here is a few things to consider.

1. The RCA / XLR jacks and sockets used in the Pre / Pro / AVR is just ordinary metal + copper alloy with tin plated or gold plated that is near what the UP-OCC copper or OFC copper is made of. They have never a claim about the audiophile (user) replaceable RCA / XLR jacks for your pre/pro/AVR with 99.99% pure silver in this weird audio world. Just something to consider when you plug your Ultra Pure Silver or UP-OCC Copper ICs before hooking it up.

2. Speaker terminals (all kinds) doesn't seems to share with this super doper ICs of all sorts that cost upwards of thousands. All the speaker terminals I came across seems to be made of some sort of copper (or) platinum alloy with some kinds of plating on them.

3. Most Inductors and almost all Speaker Voice Coils seems to be made of normal copper other than the ultra pure stuff.

4. All kinds of amplifiers where the Uber IC are hooked into doesn't seems to have made of Ultra Pure Silver in their components including (transformers).

So, there seems to be places where the multi-thousands cables are restricted from their ultra performance.

Now, anyone used the Audiophile Power Cords that costs thousands for 2M? They are claimed to have Multi-shielding with Multi-stranded Silvers. Anyone thought of how perfect they would match with the Ultra Uber ICs and Speaker Cables?

Comments guys?

ben62670

Every thing is system dependent. If you take a chevette, and drop a blown 454 in it you do not have a world class performer. Back again to the weakest link;)
Oh yeah
Yawn...

megasat16

Tell me a system that has all the uber stuff you could think of to go with the Ultra Uber wires? I'll find the weakest link for you.

ben62670

megasat16 wrote: »

Tell me a system that has all the uber stuff you could think of to go with the Ultra Uber wires? I'll find the weakest link for you.

Again Yawn.

megasat16

Any other ones like to join this yawning party?

ben62670

Lasareath wrote: »

Some people just don't have the hearing to be able to hear the difference that better cables could make.

I too beleive this. You can give me Boones Farm, or a real fine wine, and I couldn't tell the difference:D

megasat16 wrote: »

Any other ones like to join this yawning party?

Well after being on the forum for this much time it's kinda like beating a dead horse...
Yawn:D

megasat16

Oh...me! I lack the golden ears most AudiophileS possess. I do agree that the ICs makes a difference how a system sounds as long as it's reasonable. You don't want any **** or poorly make IC or speaker to go with your system. This is not to improve what I can hear or can't hear but to make sure the weakest link does not reside in the easiest replaceable part of the audio rig to further deteriorate the audio signals.

megasat16

ben62670 wrote: »

Well after being on the forum for this much time it's kinda like beating a dead horse...
Yawn:D

Yeah! I know, the point well taken. After all, there is nothing much really exciting in this analog audio world. I don't feel like I miss a thing after waking up 25 years later on. Same old stuff. Today news from yesterday! :eek:


Digital? Go away. Who do you think I am?