In-Ceiling Setup: How Good Can it Be?

Kex

Okie Dokie. I just searched through 500 threads on this topic and have found no meaningful information. It's a bit like doing a Google search and coming up with two answers that don't really help: not usually a good sign!

Oh well, here goes: I have been using a 5.1 setup with four RT55 and a CS400 center. Our landlord got in trouble with his mortgage in June and we ended up getting a new place of our own (since he wanted to sell). Anyway, I'm not entirely happy with the setup today in the new house and have got very interested in the Polk Audio in-ceiling line of products, especially since some seem to be matched to the famed LSi line. Here are my questions:

1. Is it possible to build a very good HT system, for movies and/or music, using only in-ceiling speakers (and a subwoofer, of course)?
2. Could it equal, or rival an RT55/CS400 setup?
3. I'm thinking of an all LC80i installation (five speakers), is there any other brand I should be considering besides Polk Audio?
4. What are the most obvious technical challenges I might encounter?

Any thoughts guys, or is this still just considered taboo, other than for background radio noise ... ?

Thinkology

Kex wrote: »

Here are my questions:

1. Is it possible to build a very good HT system, for movies and/or music, using only in-ceiling speakers (and a subwoofer, of course)?
2. Could it equal, or rival an RT55/CS400 setup?
3. I'm thinking of an all LC80i installation (five speakers), is there any other brand I should be considering besides Polk Audio?
4. What are the most obvious technical challenges I might encounter?

Any thoughts guys, or is this still just considered taboo, other than for background radio noise ... ?

1: It sounds better than you think...but not as good as you'll want! They are a little muffled unless you are directly under them. They won't project the sound "out" into the room.

I have in-ceiling speakers for my side and rear surrounds and they sound fantastic for that purpose. Out of curiosity I've swapped out wiring to test just what you are asking...and it just isn't going to work if you expect much from your fronts. If you "had" to keep things small and off the floor, you could suspend a pair of VM10 from the ceiling for fronts and a similar one for center under the TV.

I'm in a similar situation in that my wife agreed to the Sony XBR flat screen on the wall in exchange for "the speakers going away." I think I have her sold on the appearance of the VM20 for all three fronts mounted above and beside the TV on the wall.

As far as music, they fill the room nicely, it's kinda cool. But again, it's just not what you're used to.

2: Nope...that's exactly what I'm replacing myself. No. No. And No.

3: Don't Know.

4: Hurry and do it before summer rolls back around. Trust me!

I like my in-ceiling surrounds. I think they are perfect for that. I'm still looking for something with a high WAF (wife acceptance factor) that also satisfy my ears for the three fronts.

Good luck

Mike

Kex

Thanks Mike, and welcome to the Club BTW (great first post!). Not very encouraging though ... what speakers did you use in your setup?

My reasoning with the LC80i is that they are voice matched to the LSi, which are a pretty darn good speaker by most accounts, and you can "aim" them to some extent, I think. They are also not cheap ... surely they can't be that bad?!

Polksaladanni

Can't tell you from experience but, that is the route I'm going with the whole house. Except the movable 2ch speakers. Already bought and paid for.

Paul

Kex

Polksaladanni wrote: »

Can't tell you from experience but, that is the route I'm going with the whole house. Except the movable 2ch speakers. Already bought and paid for.

Paul

Wow! You don't muck around! I thought about the LSi equivalent in-ceilings, thinking I could get an upgrade from the RT55/CS400, but this thread is about as exciting as a tortoise having sex at night, so I'm thinking the topic is not a popular one ...

nikolas812

Kex wrote: »

Wow! You don't muck around! I thought about the LSi equivalent in-ceilings, thinking I could get an upgrade from the RT55/CS400, but this thread is about as exciting as a tortoise having sex at night, so I'm thinking the topic is not a popular one ...

Give it a little time...


Friday - Sunday this place is dead.





Nick

Kex

nikolas812 wrote: »

Give it a little time...


Friday - Sunday this place is dead.





Nick

Do you mean do say that tortoises don't have sex from Friday to Sunday?!

ben62670

Kex wrote: »

Do you mean do say that tortoises don't have sex from Friday to Sunday?!

That's how long it takes them:D

broncsrule21@

Here is my opinion.
My house is pre-wired for 5.1. I have been using a brand called NXG for my in-ceiling surrounds. (I might buy Polks later, but I will explain) For movies, I am totally satisfied. I have had other dedicated surrounds in the past and have friends with lots of different set-ups. I can't hear any difference.

Multichannel music is another beast all together. Through my system, I am left wanting more.

just my observations.. It is a matter of what is important to you. Also note, I have not tried any "high end" in-ceiling speakers.

Kex

broncsrule21@ wrote: »

... I have been using a brand called NXG for my in-ceiling surrounds. ...

Those seem to be pretty serious speakers: http://www.nxgtech.com/index.htm. Can you figure out which ones you have exactly? Thanks!

Thinkology

Kex wrote: »

Thanks Mike, and welcome to the Club BTW (great first post!). Not very encouraging though ... what speakers did you use in your setup?

My reasoning with the LC80i is that they are voice matched to the LSi, which are a pretty darn good speaker by most accounts, and you can "aim" them to some extent, I think. They are also not cheap ... surely they can't be that bad?!

Well, I am not at home right now so I'm not sure of model numbers. They are Polk and were not cheap...but not on the level you are looking at (they were never meant to be more than surrounds). I think what you're looking at will be ok, if not impressive for most guests you show it to. But frankly, I think when you A/B compare, you'll be like me trying to figure out how to keep what you've got. Hehehee

Looking forward to your review...I'm very interested.


Mike

Kex

Thinkology wrote: »

... Looking forward to your review...I'm very interested. ...

Well, I haven't made any decisions yet, since this does not seem to generate much excitement thus far. Maybe when all the guys get back from Polkfest there will be some more input, or maybe I'll just contact c/s and ask them straight up for an honest answer ... We'll see.

nikolas812

I think you should do 4 lsi15's and two lsi9's for centers. With 2 SVS ultra13's

Thats just my my opinion.:D:p:D


Carry on.




Nick

Kex

nikolas812 wrote: »

I think you should do 4 lsi15's and two lsi9's for centers. With 2 SVS ultra13's

Thats just my my opinion.:D:p:D


Carry on.




Nick

Very funny! Do you know how big houses are in SoCal?! If I followed your advice, I'ld have to sit on the floor because there would be no room for the furniture any more ... Besides, you know I like to use identical speakers all round, if possible (planning for SACD DVD-A), so that would be six LSi15s or six LSi9s :eek:

nikolas812

Kex wrote: »

Very funny! Do you know how big houses are in SoCal?! If I followed your advice, I'ld have to sit on the floor because there would be no room for the furniture any more ... Besides, you know I like to use identical speakers all round, if possible (planning for SACD DVD-A), so that would be six LSi15s or six LSi9s :eek:

Sounds like its time to move.:D

May I suggest southern Indiana?

Louisville, KY should be good for job prospects and would be close

Do it!:p


Nick

broncsrule21@

Kex wrote: »

Those seem to be pretty serious speakers: http://www.nxgtech.com/index.htm. Can you figure out which ones you have exactly? Thanks!

I have the nx-pro8020s

hope that helps

Kex

broncsrule21@ wrote: »

I have the nx-pro8020s

hope that helps

It does help. That looks like a great product, on paper at least: http://www.nxgtech.com/8020.htm. Of course, specifications aren't everything ...

- 8" woofers aren't for nothing.
- Frequency response of 37Hz-22,000Hz (no mention of -3dB limits though).
- Sensitivity: 90dB.

Seems like a pretty good speaker though. I wonder will we ever see ceiling or wall speakers where you can add two or three drivers, instead of just one: the "no replacement for displacement" thing is what I'm thinking about ...

Polksaladanni

Kex wrote: »

Wow! You don't muck around! I thought about the LSi equivalent in-ceilings, thinking I could get an upgrade from the RT55/CS400, but this thread is about as exciting as a tortoise having sex at night, so I'm thinking the topic is not a popular one ...

So I was standing in line at the Bank... Watchin dez 2 toytles playin wid deznutz...

Dude, I"ve been muckin around (or does it start with and f ?) for going on 3 years.... Ever since the wife curbed the 50'' Pioneer. All the women friends are all up my a_ _ about the Mega CD Changers sitting in the closet unhooked. (They have a nifty OSD for song choices) I roll with a Kenner Close&Play inside now!

I guess they are tired of the boombox duct taped to a pole on the patio...
No, remote controls whatsoever. They are not used to that compared to the old casa

P

From what I read only, all in-walls suck compared to enclosures. But for HT it will suffice for me. Outta sight outta mind. I like the Polks "new construction" idea though.....

Polksaladanni

PS. Non of the in-walls are Polks or any other well known name brand.

I got them from my Uncles, co-worker (all retired engineers) Co-founded a very small electronics company. It's a hybrid.

Paul

strider

We got to listen to a 7.1 set up using the top of the line LCI in-walls at HQ. The front and rear left and right were handled by the LCI RTS-105, the center was matched to it. The side surrounds were the LCi-RTS FX. They also had 4 of the in floor subs. Lemme tell you, I'd gladly trade my system of RT55 fronts, CS400 center, and LS/Fx surrounds for it. Absolutely no comparison. Sounds that panned from side to side and/or front to back were seamless, which I didn't expect from in-walls. Precise imaging from music and movie sources. Tight bass and that Vifa tweeter. Ummmm.

I know it doesn't directly answer your question in regards to the in-ceiling speakers, but hopefully it gives you some idea of the quality of the speaker series.

Kex

strider wrote: »

We got to listen to a 7.1 set up using the top of the line LCI in-walls at HQ.

I was hoping somebody at Polkfest might have had some information on this. I should have thought to ask ... In wall speakers are possibly easier than in ceiling, in that they can be bigger (more drivers). I bet multiple floor subs contributes a lot too. Still, it's nice to know that maybe it CAN be done.

disneyjoe7

I have heard the LCI in-walls both at RT1 house during PF07 and the Demo room at PF08.... Both where the best kick **** HT setup I ever heard.

Kex

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I have heard the LCI in-walls both at RT1 house during PF07 and the Demo room at PF08.... Both where the best kick **** HT setup I ever heard.

More good news! Maybe if RT1 reads this, he could tell me what LCi speakers he uses, and how he finds them for music listening.

mmadden28

Kex wrote: »

More good news! Maybe if RT1 reads this, he could tell me what LCi speakers he uses, and how he finds them for music listening.

Well as far as the inwalls he uses:
From his sig:

Polk In-Walls LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx

Kex

mmadden28 wrote: »

Well as far as the inwalls he uses:
From his sig:

So, both RT1 and the Polkfest demo were using some pretty pricey stuff! I was thinking more along the lines of the LC80i, about $1,000 a pair MSRP. Those LCi-RTS105 speakers are more than double that price :eek:!

Kex

Here's what I think I'm going to do: I'm going to try to pick up a pair of LC80i or TC80i for the dining/family room, where I have a pair of RT800 currently. This is not a critical setup since we do not watch movies or listen to any music (other than the satellite music channels for background) in this room. If the results are any good IMO, I'll think about the main sitting room 5.1 setup then, which is where all our movie viewing and serious music listening happens.

The TC range are 8 ohm (and cheaper), so any of my receivers will drive them, but the LC are 4 ohm, so I only have one receiver capable of driving those.

I'm going to be dropping by a music store today and I might get some ideas there too. I've never been to this store before, so it'll be a discovery mission ...

reeltrouble1

You need to make sure you get an enclosure for what ever speaker you install, many have this available through POLK or make your own, some come with enclosure already attached to the speaker.

I would use the in-walls if possible, I would use the surround speaker for any side or back surrounds. Definetly match these up with the appropriate POLK subwoofer with the swa-500 sub amplifier, an awesome experience.

Remember to select you placement carefully. It is not like you can just pick the speaker up and move it once installed. If you have specific questions or concerns please let me know. BTW the line you are looking at is very nice I have heard them at POLK and they do provide a satifsfying experience for either HT or music.

RT1

Kex

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

You need to make sure you get an enclosure for what ever speaker you install, many have this available through POLK or make your own, some come with enclosure already attached to the speaker.

I would use the in-walls if possible, I would use the surround speaker for any side or back surrounds. Definetly match these up with the appropriate POLK subwoofer with the swa-500 sub amplifier, an awesome experience.

Remember to select you placement carefully. It is not like you can just pick the speaker up and move it once installed. If you have specific questions or concerns please let me know. BTW the line you are looking at is very nice I have heard them at POLK and they do provide a satifsfying experience for either HT or music.

RT1

Thanks RT1. I had read about the importance of the enclosures somewhere, so that just confirms it as a necessity. I'll probably try to do something myself ... we'll see.

As for the wall speakers, I thought they would probably be easier, just because of their size and how they would fit between 2x4 joists, but I don't think they will work well for our room (too obvious on smallish SoCal walls, and not as pretty to look at as a nice wood cabinet on a floorstander or bookshelf). Also, some people complain about the unpleasant transmission of noise by reverberation to the rooms on the other side of the walls where the speakers are mounted (you might have found good ways to stop this though).

Thanks for the thumbs up on your listening experience at Polk with the LCi line. This is starting to look as though it might work after all, great stuff !

disneyjoe7

RT1,

Can you tell us more about your enclosures? Where they already made or did you make them? If already made post link, if you made them post size.


Thanks

Steve

Polksaladanni

Enclosures? Hmmm. That does make sense.

Especially since I was going to use my in-walls in the ceilings most of the time.

Maybe build boxes using MDF and work it between the ceiling beams?

Are they not tuned for Inifinate Baffle set-ups though?

Somebody call Polk.

Paul

garyinct

I have combo of in-wall and in-ceiling all TC Series and I love it. Its difficult comparing to others because many people on this site have some fantastic systems. I have a 13x25 space that I have TC 265 LRC at 1 end for projector and TC 65 LR in-ceiling and TC65 C in-wall near side for LCD with 4 TC 615 in-wall for surround. I use speaker selectors to alternate or for rocking out I can have all going. After trying both I have to say that I really thought the in-wall speakers mounted in the ceiling sounded superior to the ceiling speakers. If you can deal with rectangles in the ceiling I suggest you at least entertain the idea. I have outlaw LFM-1 plus sub. If the front speaks are going to be far away, say more then 12' then I do think in-ceiling speakers would take some getting used to or seem to be a bit lacking because although you can adjust the tweeter it still won't be directed to your ears. I have an Emotiva amp that helps my speakers out. I recommend in-ceilings if you are close enough to aim tweater towards your listen location. I also recommend you studying enclosures, weather you buy or build your own putting LC series in an uninsulated ceiling void would be a waste of your time and money. All in wall and ceilings are only as good as the enclosure you create. The LC series is a hell of a speaker line that I wish I could afford but I am by no means disappointed I could only afford TC. To have 11 speakers in my living room and only have to lose the footprint of the subwoofer pleases the wife, and I think sounds as good as any comparably priced floor system I've listened to.