Speaker cable makes no difference...

ben62670

Please don't feel I am bashing you. Like I stated before I blew some coin on M myself. I compared some of their middle of the road stuff to cheap speaker wire in the auto motive section. With this hobby it's tough. Especially when you first start. You read a bunch of online reviews, and feel you have been educated. I did that for a while. Take your time with purchases. Some gear sounds good with some gear, but not with other gear. A lot of guys have pointed me in the right direction, and I chose to ignore it. Well it cost me. You don't have to spend a lot. The best thing to do is get your ears on it. Buy used when you can. If you find you don't like it sell it. You may loose, break even, or even make a few dollars;) I think signal cable(Frank), or blue jeans has a period where you can return it if not satisfied. Listen to guys who not just recommend a brand, but can offer something else they can compare it to. Some people ears are not as sensitive as others. Unfortunately mine are fairly sensitive:(
Ben

NewHTguy

I decided to move from basic 16 AWG to 12 AWG (Dayton) because I thought it was worth a try. After replacing the old 16 AWG on my R front, I decided to have a beer... Ended up postponing replacing the wire on the L front. Well I still haven't replaced it because I've been lazy and neither I nor my girlfriend can tell the difference between the left or the right.

Kex

NewHTguy wrote: »

... neither I nor my girlfriend can tell the difference between the left or the right.

Well, no ... you would'nt be able to ... not when you're doin' that other stuff.

NewHTguy

Good one Kex!

F1nut

That's not how one evaluates cables unless running a mono signal, but even that isn't the best way.

dee1949

...my 2 cents

http://www.theanalogdept.com/hd14.htm

...sound great for the $$$ spent but not in the same league as Kimber Kable 4tc. I am sure everybody has their favorite high priced cable. Whatever makes YOU HAPPY.

NewHTguy

F1nut wrote: »

That's not how one evaluates cables unless running a mono signal, but even that isn't the best way.

Let me clarify, I was NOT trying to evaluate the two types of wire. In fact, I had planned on just switching to the new wire before laziness (beer) kicked in. But I did expect to hear some difference and I could not.

ben62670

A cheap cable vs a cheap cable. Too many think that its just gage that make a difference. Gage helps, but the quality of the wire matters. Also your source, and the quality of IC's may a big difference.
Ben

F1nut

NewHTguy wrote: »

Let me clarify, I was NOT trying to evaluate the two types of wire. In fact, I had planned on just switching to the new wire before laziness (beer) kicked in. But I did expect to hear some difference and I could not.

Let me clarify, what I highlighted above in bold is an evaluation.

There's a lot more to cables than just the gauge.

Here's a good way to evaluate cables (hear a difference). Install the new ones, burn them in for the required amount of time. After a few more weeks, remove the new cables and reinstall the old ones. If there is a difference it should be pretty obvious at that point. Good luck in your quest.

rdb2001

I have been reading these post. If i had to rate myself in hometheater experience, I would say I am right above novice. What has made the most difference for me is the gauge of the wire. When I upgraded to 12 guage wire my system came to life. I also added a power center that cleans up the power and it makes a hell of a difference. I have been doing car audio for awhile and always used thick guage wire for power and speaker wire. Quality of the wire does matter alot in both worlds. When you combine quality with the guage of the wire, I think you have hit it. I will say this, being that I am in car audio, Name makes a difference. I am running kicker amps with rockford wire in my truck. I have infinity speakers inside and one kicker 15 in a 6 cubic foot box. I have an optima under the hood and a Kinetik in the back with a cap on it. This keeps the amp with plenty of power with makes a huge difference in sound quality. I am sure that this holds true in the HT world also. I heard my speakers on another amp and it didnt compare to kicker. The same can be said for my HT. I have a yamaha receiver which does pretty well, but when my friend brought his marantz reciever over so that I can see the difference(older model which is why it was unhooked already), there was a better sound. So I think its a combination of both. Your thoughts, I am new to this so very open to advice.

NewHTguy

F1/Ben,

I was merely letting people know what I heard, or did not hear. I really don't care other people spend their money. They will ultimately judge for themselves. If letting it "burn in" has an effect, then I might leave things as they are for a while and see if that changes anything.

F1,
My point was that in the same way that I would not simultaneously play two different speakers, one model on the left and one model on the right, in an attempt to judge which one was better, so to I would not judge speaker wire in this fashion. However, if two speakers produce different sounds, I would expect to determine that they sound different when they are played simultaneously. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I would expect.

As for whether I was evaluating, you can adopt whatever definition you wish. The definition of evaluate according to one reference
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evaluate
is
1. to determine or set the value or amount of; appraise: to evaluate property.
2. to judge or determine the significance, worth, or quality of; assess: to evaluate the results of an experiment.
3. Mathematics. to ascertain the numerical value of (a function, relation, etc.).

I maintain that I was not attempting to do any of the above.

mmadden28

If resistance, reactance, capacitance and inductance can be measured on a length of cable, and the above values are well known and proven to impact audio signals; how then is it not measureable in order to compare whether one cable is better than another? Or at least consider that there may be a difference?

Or are some here saying that for the short lengths we are dealing with here, that the above values make no diffference? And if so what is that magic max length?

In AC Power, Voltage Drop is related to the resistance of the wire at a certain length at a certain gauge at a certain voltage and while a certain current is flowing. This is a measureable and proveable thing right?. And that the voltage drop can decrease the efficiency of the load, such as a light bulb not being as bright as it can be. And where increasing that guage or changing the way the circuit is wired can decrease that voltage drop, thus improving the performace or efficiency of the load or allowing the light to shine brighter (perhaps only subjectively brighter-perhaps measureable).

Why then is it unfathomable to some that changing a speaker wire gauge or the way a speaker wire is configured won't make any difference? I would think that even if none of the usual mentioned subjective improvements to the sound existed, that there would at least be an increase in the volume perhaps.

It's like drinking a milkshake with a thin walled small diameter straw, sucking and exerting and just barely getting any of the good stuff--then replacing that with either a thicker higher quality walled straw and or larger diameter straw, and being able to enjoy more of that milk shaky goodness (or advance the stages of brain freeze by a few seconds). Now I wouldn't say that one needs to go all the way to a Stainless Steel straw, as that would not be cost effective and well beyond the point of diminished returns as it would not liekly result in an further improved milk shake drinking experience.

Libertyc

I think I'm going to try an old set of Christmas lights as speaker cable. I will post the results after they burn in.

mmadden28

Libertyc wrote: »

I think I'm going to try an old set of Christmas lights as speaker cable. I will post the results after they burn in.

Don't forget to replace all the blinkers or it'll drive you nuts :eek: been there done that

mmadden28

I wonder how well this stuff would work for speakers??

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.174/.f

disneyjoe7

Libertyc wrote: »

I think I'm going to try an old set of Christmas lights as speaker cable. I will post the results after they burn in.

I've heard romex cable is the best, but I haven't tried it myself.

ben62670

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I've heard romex cable is the best, but I haven't tried it myself.

The last guy that swore by that got banned:D

disneyjoe7

For good I hope.

ben62670

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

For good I hope.

Me too:)

Conradicles

I did a direct comparison last night with my new audioquest type 4 and my old Monster Z2. The Z2 is much larger gauge than the AQ 4 and probably better than most monster cables you get at the retail stores.
Here is what I noticed instantly and I am by no means an audiophile:
The AQ 4 was much more detailed and "easier" on my big ears.
Much smoother sound than the Z2.
Now I can turn up my receiver to a higher volume level without fatigue.
I bet they will sound even better after the "break in" period!
Audioquest type 4 is a great cable in my book.

mmadden28

Libertyc wrote: »

I think I'm going to try an old set of Christmas lights as speaker cable. I will post the results after they burn in.

Well?

NewHTguy

yep, waiting...

Glad I have beer ears, since I have a beer budget

Montoya

Conradicles wrote: »

I did a direct comparison last night with my new audioquest type 4 and my old Monster Z2. The Z2 is much larger gauge than the AQ 4 and probably better than most monster cables you get at the retail stores.
Here is what I noticed instantly and I am by no means an audiophile:
The AQ 4 was much more detailed and "easier" on my big ears.
Much smoother sound than the Z2.
Now I can turn up my receiver to a higher volume level without fatigue.
I bet they will sound even better after the "break in" period!
Audioquest type 4 is a great cable in my book.

I was going from Monster 1000 factory terminated speakers to Audioquest Type-4 my audioquest stomped the Monsters into the ground. They are now for sale at what I thought they are worth 50$ for a 20foot pair biggest waste of money ever but at 50.00 I think I can live with myself knowing whoever buys them gets what they paid for. Next upgrade is to remove all monster audio cable that is installed in my walls and replace with some other brand.

NJPOLKER

The AQ 4 was much more detailed and "easier" on my big ears.

Conradicles can we see some pictures of the ears?

Conradicles

NJPOLKER wrote: »

The AQ 4 was much more detailed and "easier" on my big ears.

Conradicles can we see some pictures of the ears?

Ha ha:p

mantis

Over all the years I have learned a ton about wire and cable. Bottom line is this.

Your speaker cables have a job to do. They have to carry the entire signal from the amp to the speaker. Once this is done correctly, You can't make it any better.

There are a lot of companies making speaker cables. To figure out which is the right cables for your system can be painful and expensive. What's funny is they all sound different. Not better or worse but different. I have about 5 different speaker cables here at my house and my main speakers running in 2 channel sound different every time I switch them out. All my speaker cables are 14g or thicker and are 8 to 10 feet in length. I also have 18 foot runs for on wall fronts for Christmas time when I put my floor standing speakers away. I like to do that so the tree has mad room and no one scratches my speakers.

Dan