Size Matters: PS Audio xStream Statement SC Power Cords, Juice Bar II, Power Ports

DarqueKnight

I stand corrected.;)

schwarcw

Nice writeup Raife! I have a PS Audio Quintet and love it! I've been using the Plus Power cords on everything I own. One observation I made when switching is that my big Halo amps ran cooler, at least to the touch. I did not do any temperature measurements. I was also startled by the deep bass punch that was nice and tight.

I didn't see a surge protector in your panel. I installed a whole house protector when I installed my 2 - 20 amp dedicated circuits. I also get some surge protection from the cable on the Quintet. Even though I have two surge protectors in the "pipeline", I like to kick off the panel switches during storms or if I'm going to be away for a while. I disconnect the Comcast cable.

Any surge protection thoughts??

DarqueKnight

There is a surge protector in the main panel that is connected to the utility company line. The panel shown above is a sub panel that only contains the "baby" 15, 20, and 30 amp breakers.

Surge protection is a wonderful thing to have.:)

DarqueKnight

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Subsequently, I have had great success with the Shunyata products, which were recommended by BAT.

... maybe one of these to solve your current concerns.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-Hydra8specs.html

RT1

This just in from Parasound technical service:

"Unless you are in an area that needs protection from lightning or brownouts, or unless you are experiencing problems with your power, we do not recommend the use of power conditioners for our power amplifiers. You would require a very expensive commercial grade power conditioner to meet the current demands of the JC 1."

Hmmmm...this rabbit hole is trying to burrow deeper and deeper (into my wallet).:eek:

It may be better to let the greedy JC 1's have the dedicated lines to themselves and try a power conditioner on the low wattage stuff (preamps, SACD, turntable).

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Of all my power changes it was the lines which offered the most improvement.

That was my experience also. Ironic, because I thought the improvement going from one dedicated line to two would be noticeable, but minimal. Also ironic is the fact that the cost of the dedicated lines was significantly less than the heavier power cables, but the dedicated lines provided a much greater sonic benefit.

reeltrouble1

Raife,

BAT recommends trying their amps with and without a power center and then choosing the way it sounds best. They recommend the Shunyata or the Running Springs if their customer is going to use a conditioner. I suspect the Parasound recommendation is based on most conditioners inability pass enough current to the unit. I can definitely say that the Shunyata made my background blacker so I could hear more music which I feel is why I hear more bass.

I ran straight from the wall for sometime before trying the PS Audio UPC's, I was using Carver Silver 9t's back then, the UPC's were OK for those amps but just could not handle the BAT which was powering some not so effecient speakers, so I demo'd the Shunyata with the amp and liked it very much.

The dedicated lines are something I would recommend to anyone with serious audio gear and hobby goals. I once ran my theater rack on a single 15 amp line which was shared with other outlets, in the evening my voltage would drop below 110v as low as 108, now with a dedicated 30 amp line it is rock steady at 120v.

RT1

DarqueKnight

When I installed the PS Audio Power Port receptacles three weeks ago, the only benefit I heard was a slight lowering of the noise floor.


Power Port outlet on left and stock residential grade outlet on
right. SACD player is plugged into the upper slot and the right
power amp is plugged into the lower slot.

There are four outlets behind my two channel system going from left to right: Outlets 1 and 4 are on the same dedicated 20 amp circuit and have the stock outlets that came with the house when it was completed six years ago. Outlets 2 and 3 are each on their own new 20 amp circuit and are PS Audio Power Port receptacles. Outlets 3 and 4 are shown in the picture above.

After the Power Ports had been passing current for 200 hours playing music and for 300 hours sitting idle*, I plugged the SACD player into the stock outlet to the right of it. I immediately noticed an apparent slight lowering of sound level (corresponding to a rise noise level), an overall slight veiling of the sound and a slight reduction in high frequency detail.

I then plugged the SACD player back into the Power Port receptacle and plugged each power amp into the stock receptacle close to it. Again, I immediately noticed an apparent lowering of sound level, an overall veiling of the sound and a reduction in high frequency detail. There was a greater degree of improvement between the stock outlets and the Power Ports with the power amps than with the SACD player.

To give a bit of quantification to the differences in the sound of the SACD player with the stock outlets and Power Ports, there are some softly "squeaking" sounds made by a guitar's strings at the beginning of the track "Take Me With You" on the Rippington's "Curves Ahead" CD. The reverberant envelope surrounding the squeaks is heard much more clearly with the Power Ports. In addition, bass notes are more articulate and defined and there is more "body" and natural sounding decay to guitar and piano strings. Synthesizer notes have more of an airy, floating quality.

Not a night and day difference, but well worth the money as I subjectively felt the degree of improvement exceeded the modest cost of the receptacles. The following claims have been confirmed:

1. "Cleans the soundstage." In my case, "cleaning" was more like wiping off a slightly dusty window.

2. "Open, airy, top end." My top end was already open and airy, but the Power Ports enhanced it.

3. "Improved connectivity." Absolutely. Very strong grip.

4. "Lowers apparent noise floor." Definitely. That was the only benefit I heard on first listening and got better after break in.

5. "AV Grade." Absolutely.

As for the other claims:

6. "Improves midrange bloom." My gear is neutral in character and does not have any midrange bloom to improve.

7. "Will not degrade over time." We'll see, but I don't expect them to. The metal in the stock outlets of my six year old home is still bright and shiny, so I expect the Power Ports to excel in that area. I have noticed that the grip of some frequently used stock outlets has loosened over time.

---

*The Parasound Halo JC 1 monoblock amps draw 2.08 amps of current when idling. They are left on 24/7.

mmadden28

Am I the only one noticing that the Juice Bar II is using 20A outlets, with a 15A IEC? Isn't that akin to using a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit which I am pretty sure is against the NEC? Is that thing UL listed?

mmadden28

DarqueKnight wrote: »

*The Parasound Halo JC 1 monoblock amps draw 2.08 amps of current when idling. They are left on 24/7.

Do you always leave them on 24/7? If so why?
Or did you only leave them on to pull current for the break-in period?

SolidSqual

That's awesome! I can't wait to get mine.

DarqueKnight

mmadden28 wrote: »

Am I the only one noticing that the Juice Bar II is using 20A outlets, with a 15A IEC? Isn't that akin to using a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit which I am pretty sure is against the NEC? Is that thing UL listed?

The Juice Bar II does not carry a UL mark. It does carry a "CE" mark certifying that it has met European safety standards. UL ratings have no legal standing, whereas CE ratings do. Maybe they felt that since they satisfied the European standards, it would have been redundant to go for UL certification since the CE mark is recognized in the US and some other countries.

There is no problem with using higher rated 20A outlets with 15A circuits because the outlet can only deliver what the circuit offers, which is this case is less than the capacity of the outlet. Now, if they were using 10A rated outlets on a 15A circuit, then that would be cause for concern and legal action.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Do you always leave them on 24/7? If so why?

Convenience. It takes about 90 minutes for the JC 1's to warm up to optimal sound quality. Leaving them on adds about $11 to my monthly electric bill. I do turn them, and everything else, off if I am going to be away for more than a few days.

mmadden28

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The Juice Bar II does not carry a UL mark. It does carry a "CE" mark certifying that it has met European safety standards. UL ratings have no legal standing, whereas CE ratings do. Maybe they felt that since they satisfied the European standards, it would have been redundant to go for UL certification since the CE mark is recognized in the US and some other countries.

Learn somethign new everyday-Thanks

DarqueKnight wrote: »

There is no problem with using higher rated 20A outlets with 15A circuits because the outlet can only deliver what the circuit offers, which is this case is less than the capacity of the outlet. Now, if they were using 10A rated outlets on a 15A circuit, then that would be cause for concern and legal action.

Yeah I think I got that backwards in my head.--But still - kinda defeats the purpose of putting a 20 amp circuit in no?
I keep coming back to this though--There just has to be something wrong with allowing a 20A rated outlet to plug into any minimum 15A outlet.
its kinda like cutting the ground lug off so you can plug into a two prong outlet

Looking at the way that thing is built why didn't they just put a 20A IEC in there and call it a day-I don't get it.


I'm confused by the pic in post #37 and below:

DarqueKnight wrote: »

There are four outlets behind my two channel system going from left to right: Outlets 1 and 4 are on the same dedicated 20 amp circuit and have the stock outlets that came with the house when it was completed six years ago. Outlets 2 and 3 are each on their own new 20 amp circuit and are PS Audio Power Port receptacles. Outlets 3 and 4 are shown in the picture above.

In the pic you show Outlet 3 & 4 and you said they were both 20 amp circuits, yet its a 15 amp outlet????

DarqueKnight

mmadden28 wrote: »

But still - kinda defeats the purpose of putting a 20 amp circuit in no?

No...it does not.

The heavier wire of a 20A circuit (minimum 12 AWG) offers the advantage of lower resistance and, even more important, lower noise than a 15A circuit (minimum 14 AWG). The resistance of 14 AWG copper wire is 59% higher than that of 12 AWG.

mmadden28 wrote: »

I keep coming back to this though--There just has to be something wrong with allowing a 20A rated outlet to plug into any minimum 15A outlet. its kinda like cutting the ground lug off so you can plug into a two prong outlet

Using a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit is not analogous to defeating a ground lug. It is analogous to "overbuilding". Remember that the vast majority of home audio and video gear, as well as the vast majority of household appliances, are rated for 15A or less and have 15A plugs.

According to Article 210-21-B-1 of the National Electrical Code, a single receptacle (non-duplex, only one plug) on a dedicated branch circuit must be rated equal or better than the amp rating of that branch circuit.

Article 210-21-B-3 of the National Electrical Code specifies that either a 15 or 20 amp rated receptacle may be installed on a 20 amp rated multi-outlet branch circuit that contains one or more duplex receptacles or more than one single outlet on that 20 amp rated circuit.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Looking at the way that thing is built why didn't they just put a 20A IEC in there and call it a day-I don't get it.

PS Audio advises that the performance of the Juice Bar II will be enhanced by the use of a power cord of heavier gauge than the 14 AWG cord supplied with the unit. The vast majority of aftermarket power cords have 15A IEC plugs. Using a 20A IEC jack on the JB II would have caused some inconvenience to the user. I have not confirmed this with PS Audio, but I suspect that, although the JB II's IEC jack has the form factor of a 15A jack, it probably contains an amount of metal equivalent to a 20A IEC jack.

mmadden28 wrote: »

I'm confused by the pic in post #37 and below:

In the pic you show Outlet 3 & 4 and you said they were both 20 amp circuits, yet its a 15 amp outlet????

See my answer above regarding NEC rules for the use of multiple 15A outlets on a 20A branch circuit.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Learn somethign new everyday-Thanks

You're welcome.:)

madmax

I tried one of the statement power cables for awhile but sold it when times were bad. The main thing I can say is I kept thinking it was a big **** snake and wanted to shoot it with my .22

madmax

DarqueKnight

mmadden28 wrote: »

I'm confused by the pic in post #37 and below:

In the pic you show Outlet 3 & 4 and you said they were both 20 amp circuits, yet its a 15 amp outlet????

Here is a scan of page 42 from the "branch circuits" section of my copy of the 1999 NEC. Please note tables 210-21(b)(2) and 210-21(b)(3).

The information in the tables from the 1999 edition are identical to the same tables given on page 51 of the 2008 NEC. The current NEC can be accessed online and read (but not downloaded or printed) free of charge. You only need to go to the NFPA website (www.nfpa.org) and complete a registration form.

mmadden28

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Here is a scan of page 42 from the "branch circuits" section of my copy of the 1999 NEC. Please note tables 210-21(b)(2) and 210-21(b)(3).

The information in the tables from the 1999 edition are identical to the same tables given on page 51 of the 2008 NEC. The current NEC can be accessed online and read (but not downloaded or printed) free of charge. You only need to go to the NFPA website (www.nfpa.org) and complete a registration form.

Thanks-still trying to absorb...not trying to be argumentative here-just trying to understand.


Why would a 20a/125v rated plug have one blade sideways then? I always though it was to ensure that you only plug it into an outlet capable of providing that current, i.e. a 20a/125v rated receptacle. But if you plug it into a 20a/125v rated outlet in the JB II, which essentially then converts the plug into a 15a/125v (two vertical blades) rated recepticle, isn't that bypassing the reason (whatever it may be) for the one horizontal blade? (hence my analogy of the removal of a ground lug to allow it to fit into a 2 prong outlet--it was not intended as a directly related analogy, only the concept)???


If I put a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit (both the cable and breaker are rated for 20 amps), isn't that unsafe? If I plug in a reg 15 amp type plug load (iron?) into the outlet, and somethign goes wrong (lets say the transformer in the load shorts or something shorts a lamp), the breaker will contine to allow current to pass until 20 amps as opposed to the 15 amps. Or is the AC cable in use (the Romex) what is really the only concern and not the device that's plugged in?. Is it simply that the in wall wiring needs to be able to handle whatever load the breaker is rate for? And the Recepticle design is simply to make it easier to identify what rating it is?

Is the outlet actually rated for the current? Or is it only rated as such based ont he blade/prong layout? In otherwirds is it safe to pass 20amps through a 15 amp outlet? I think I know the answer, but still...

Again-not trying to be 'challenging' but this is part of my confusion I think--

Now, if they were using 10A rated outlets on a 15A circuit, then that would be cause for concern and legal action

. Again I'm confused. If a 10a rated outlet on a 15 amp rated circuit is an issue, why wouldn't a 15a rated outlet on a 20 amp rated circuit be an issue?


Perhaps I'm just overthinking it.

DarqueKnight

mmadden28 wrote: »

Thanks-still trying to absorb...not trying to be argumentative here-just trying to understand.

Understood. You should go back and re-read my comments in post #43 regarding configuration of multiple and single outlets.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Why would a 20a/125v rated plug have one blade sideways then? I always though it was to ensure that you only plug it into an outlet capable of providing that current, i.e. a 20a/125v rated receptacle.

You are correct.

mmadden28 wrote: »

If I put a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit (both the cable and breaker are rated for 20 amps), isn't that unsafe?

Yeah, if you go against code and install ONLY ONE 15A outlet on a 20A circuit. However, if you review the info in post #43, multiple 15A outlets are permissible on a 20A circuit.

mmadden28 wrote: »

If I plug in a reg 15 amp type plug load (iron?) into the outlet, and somethign goes wrong (lets say the transformer in the load shorts or something shorts a lamp), the breaker will contine to allow current to pass until 20 amps as opposed to the 15 amps.

Ok, let's try again.

You should ask yourself, what is the basic difference in construction between a 15A outlet and a 20A outlet? The answer is the amount of METAL in the 20A outlet. The higher metal content of a 20A outlet is more resistant to heating, melting, and burning as the current increases, thus reducing the chance of fire.

Recall that I provided documentation, in post #43, that the NEC allows the use of 15A outlets on a 20A circuit IF AND ONLY IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE 15A OUTLETS ON THE 20A CIRCUIT. Further, a SINGLE outlet on a 20A circuit must be rated for 20A.

Now ask yourself, which has higher metal content and more resistance to overheating, a single 20A outlet on a 20A circuit or 2 or more 15A outlets connected in parallel on a 20A circuit?

If there were a short circuit condition on one outlet of a 20A circuit that was wired with AT LEAST two 15A duplex outlets, then the heat generated by the short condition would be spread among all the metal in the circuit, this includes the two 15A outlets and the additional wiring required for the two duplex outlets.

Now, it should be clear that, per the NEC requirement, a 20A circuit wired with at least two 15A duplex receptacles is actually safer under a short condition than one 20A receptacle on a 20A circuit.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Perhaps I'm just overthinking it.

Overthinking? No.;):)